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Almost 100 Dogs, Puppies Rescued From Breeder
Vet Says Many Dogs Will Require Surgery
I thought I would share this with the list.
POSTED: 1:17 p.m. CST November 12, 2002
UPDATED: 1:27 p.m. CST November 12, 2002
FENTON, Mo. -- Nearly 100 dogs and puppies were removed Tuesday from a
commercia
Today's mail brought my Signature Calendar that Lone Star BMDC is selling. This is a
WONDERFUL calendar -- instead of buying PetPrints or Brown Trout (think that's the
company) calendar for 2003 I decided to support the lobby effort Light One Candle
for which the proceeds of this calendar wil
Hi All,
As you may have read, almost two weeks ago a semi was stopped at the
Canadian/Montana border and it contained approximately 150 cold and
malnourished dogs, primarily collies and shelties, and 10 cats. The animals
were from Alaska and being shipped to Arizona. The drivers have been
detaine
Sandy,
Absolutely, I agree with you! Without being a breeder, I will never
understand what I would do in similar circumstances. I know there are
some very hard decisions, and without being in the position of having to
make them, I'm only a Monday morning quarterback.
As a pet owner, I'm grateful
Erin,
A funny thought came to mind ... I hope when you say "I tried to soak a
roll of toilet paper in Bitter Apple and leave that out, he did not fall
for it, and again we had uncomfortable guests." -- that you didn't put
the dried bitter apple TP out for your guests!!! OUCHIE!!!
=8-O <--- tha
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Hi Everyone There is a women in the Vancouver BC area brokering dogs,
right now she has two ads in the Vancouver Sun, one for unregistered Berner
puppies $1400 and another one for X bred Berner puppies from $750-$775. She
does not breed them but is buying them from somewhere, she also apparentl
Tracey
Eaglecaps Hunt for Red October " Copper " is pictured on our WebPages URL
listed below. He is also the dog featured on the July page of the 2003
calendar now on sale by the Lone Star BMDC with funds going to Light One
Candle I believe.
He is healthy, happy and AKC registered and being sho
<<<>>
What steps do you take to insure that the buyers of your puppies stay
in touch?? People move, get divorced change phone numbers and e-mail
address. If you have proven a method to insure that buyers stay in touch
would you share it with the rest of us.
Over the years we have been lucky
Breeders:: Have you ever taken a puppy back?? How old? Why? Did you
compensate the owners?? What happened to the puppy??
* Yes I have. They were over a year old.
Reasons varied, and are not public information.
Owners will be compensated from the next litter. At their request.
Both dogs wer
>>should we adopt, as a group, the practices for sale of dogs that we
feel are reasonable and in the dogs' best interest so we set ourselves
apart as a group from the rest of the dog breeders?
Ruth,
In the breeder checklist I put together several years ago, I have a
section on guarantee and contr
Sharon's response (i.e., the importance of looking at the health picture
painted by the broader family tree) to Lisa's question offers a great
opening for me to join in stressing how important it is for PET OWNERS to
radiograph/X-ray hips and elbows (at a minimum) and test (where possible)
their do
Tracey,
You can own a photo of a red berner in the Lone Star Signature calendar,
the fund raiser for Light One Candle! See
http://www.lonestarbernese.org/ for ordering details!
Pat Long (& Luther)
Always happy to help other people spend money!
Berwyn PA
Hi- I am considering a BARC rescue for my next
Berner. Could someone who has a BARC dog or puppy
please contact me privately as I have some questions
concerning the pros and cons of owning one? Thank you,
Lydia McNeese - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mahkah-berner boy 13 months
_
I said something very misleading in my last post. I said, "the general
public is ignorant." What I meant to say was that the general public is
ignorant about the ins and outs of buying dogs from responsible breeders vs
other kinds of producers.
Accept my apology, please.
Ruth Reynolds
You'll find photos of Copper on the Burgetts website:
http://users.eoni.com/~eaglecap/our_berners.htm
and of a previous red berner in the color photo section of
"The Beautiful Bernese Mountain Dog" by Russ & Rogers
-Sherri Venditti
> Ruth,
>
> I've always wondered why a guarantee would call for the return of a puppy
prior to any refund for health problems. I can understand why a contract
would be written to ensure the return of the dog to the breeder instead of
allowing it to wind up at the SPCA.
***Mind you, this is not th
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Thank you, Mary, for your excellent post on understanding OFA and GDC hip
and elbow certifications. I decided to go in and "test" the information on
my girl, Blackcoral Divine Miss "M" (Maddie), with GDC. Good thing I did!
They had her name misspelled, so I was unable to find her where she be
In a message dated 11/12/2002 6:51:48 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Being a person who wants a "performance" dog and loves to do activities
with that dog whether it be drafting, Tracking or Obedience I would like my
"ideal" breeder to offer some kind of refund and offe
So, where can I find photos of red berners?? I'm searching now ... But
if anyone would like to send me pictures of theirs .. I'd love to see
them!!
To this day, I find it odd that certain coat colors in dogs are
considered faults. Like the red Berner -- it's parents were Berners, why
isn't it?? Or
So, I'm curious ... I mean these questions from the perspective of
health problems -- specifically genetic health problems. This doesn't
cover the "we're getting divorced and this is our feeble reason for not
being able to keep this wonderful dog" excuse.
Owners:: Have you ever returned a puppy to
- Original Message -
From: "Pat Long" > Rusty,
>
> I know you were probably just having some fun on this one,
Well, for a work dog, I wanted sound. I have a friend who has a white
collared Berner and as I told her, if everything else is good I would take
him in the ring, but that is me.
Ruth,
I've always wondered why a guarantee would call for the return of a puppy
prior to any refund for health problems. I can understand why a contract
would be written to ensure the return of the dog to the breeder instead of
allowing it to wind up at the SPCA.
But why would a caring breed
What is it with male dogs and bras
Tucker loves to steal my bras - and will dance around the house with
them. The silly boy even tries to put them on. I have caught him in the
living room, more than once, holding the "cups" in his mouth, and putting
his paws through the straps. Do I have
Marjie said> The idea of a scam (certainly not a good word in conjunction
with a responsible breeder) comes to mind since guarantees can be used to
influence a buying decision. If the guarantee is used to coerce the sale,
the seller knowing its unlikely that the new owner will return the dog, its
>
>
> ***I think it has been assumed that breeders know buyers, in most cases,
> will not return their dogs. That they offer a written contract and
> guarantee making return a condition of refund, does not in my mind mean
> necessarily a Breeder is perpetrating a scam, but rather that they are
> s
In a message dated 11/12/2002 12:26:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> You mean you would sell a pup with blue eyes or red or with a white collar
> for the same as a proper colored berner? This ain't even fair, giggle.
Why is it not fair? Just because the dog cannot be s
My 2 cents from a puppy buyers (PPO) point of view - I figure it is my
responsibility to investigate a PAB (potentially acceptable breeder) to
find out what their lines are like, the medical histories, etc. I don't
expect a guarantee - in the first place, once that little bundle of fur came
to
> I'll repeat the question - "what will the breeder do with this ailing dog
that may require major surgery once they have it back?"
***That will vary, as you know, from breeder to breeder. Some would have
the surgery done and others would euthanize the dog. Some would not take
the dog back and wo
> I have a (now spayed) girl with grade 1 unilateral elbow displaysia (djd.)
> She is effected. Her mother died of malignant histiocytosis at age 7.
She
> is slight of bone, has a beautiful face and head, hips OFA good, punctate
> cataract, great temperament. Would you breed her?
Great question
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:29:39 -0600 "Rusty C Wingate"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You mean you would sell a pup with blue eyes or red or with a white
> collar
> for the same as a proper colored berner? This ain't even fair,
> giggle
The red or blue eyed pup had just as much care and forethoug
Hi!
My name is Sandra and I live in Sweden with my BMD. I have been reading your
questions and answers for some time now and I think it is great!
I have a question: Is there a site somewhere where you can see Berners
working? Does someone use a BMD for WORK at a farm, in policework, in
tracki
You mean you would sell a pup with blue eyes or red or with a white collar
for the same as a proper colored berner?
Rusty,
I know you were probably just having some fun on this one, but I did want to
answer it for the benefit of some of the newbies. The markings on a Berner
are the part that I
> I have a (now spayed) girl with grade 1 unilateral elbow displaysia (djd.)
> She is effected. Her mother died of malignant histiocytosis at age 7.
She
> is slight of bone, has a beautiful face and head, hips OFA good, punctate
> cataract, great temperament. Would you breed her?
No.
Tailwags,
You mean you would sell a pup with blue eyes or red or with a white collar
for the same as a proper colored berner? This ain't even fair, giggle.
Rusty C & Good Company
Hi all,
In our continuing quest to figure out where Gary (my husband) will be going
to seminary next year, much to our surprise Manhattan has become a top
contender. The student housing "welcomes" pets, so finding housing would
not be an issue for us, thank goodness.
Could anyone who currentl
Several weeks ago someone wrote the List regarding a pup with osteochondrosis, but I
saw few, if any, posted responses (perhaps all were private)...so I thought I'd repeat
the request for input.
I have a six-month-old BMD pup who has been limping, on and off, since 4.5 months.
Although she had b
I completely agree with Sharon and Susan on this one. It is not just whether
a dog has clearances, but rather it is the Big Picture that matters. My
first litter was two in July. When picking a male for her first litter, I
knew that eight of nine of my bitch's litter (her siblings) were x-rayed and
> I think it is the breeder's responsibility to maintain contact with puppy
owners, because it is the breeder who needs the information about what has
been produced and that can only be attained through ongoing communication
with those who own puppies.
It has been my experience as a breeder that
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:54:44 -0600 "Ruth Reynolds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> I'm seeking an example and understanding here of breeders' scams and
> am not
> questioning the validity of your statement above. What guarantee is
> more
> reasonable than, " If at any time you are not pleased wi
This is an interesting discussion about expectations
from your breeder. Hopefully one that was discussed
openly and honestly before getting a pup. By having
these types of discussion before you buy can be a
useful tool to determine if this is a breeder with
whom you work. It also demonstrates a
In a message dated 11/12/2002 10:12:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Circumstances can prevail where a breeder may need to get a puppy or dog
> back and this type of contract can provide leverage in order to get the
> puppy or dog out of a bad situation.
That's an inter
Before I get totally neurotic and break out into
tears...are these bad things? My vet tech just called
to say Chey has them, but couldnt tell me what they
are?
I am breathing.inhale, exhale, inhale,
exhalesobb!
=
Cara, Cheyenne, and The Bear
Westchester County, NY
_
Hi Susan,
I'm not comfortable with the insistance of some that the dog must be
returned in order to qualify for refund or replacement and don't have this
type of requirement in my own contract but I can see how in the US (where
litigation seems to run rampant:-) that it might be included. Now wheth
>>>however, in the case where the contract has a guarantee that can only be
met by returning the dog I will stick to my statement - the breeder is a
scam artist
Susan,
I'm seeking an example and understanding here of breeders' scams and am not
questioning the validity of your statement above. Wh
Sharon ... BRAVO TO YOU!! This is exactly what I was trying to do in the
Buhund club -- it's not JUST getting the dog/bitch cleared ... It's
knowing it's littermates, and it's parent's littermates ... And how can
YOU the breeder know what sort of breeding program you have, if 90% of
your puppies go
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:52:48 -0800 (PST) Sharon Montville
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have used an HD fair bitch for breeding and I will
> let you know in a month, the final results on her
> offspring. So far, out of the 4 pups she produced,
> one was OFA Prelim Good at 11 months, and one w
I love this discussion -- very interesting! My three cents...
I also think a guarantee that requires the dog back is a scam. Honestly --
how many people are going to give back a dog they love? And to have what
happen to it???!! Rescuing a dog from neglect is different -- requiring that
a family gi
Rose I agree if the case is one of neglect then by all means the breeder
should do everything in their power to get the dog back (I know of one
case where the breeder actually stole the dog back) however, in the case
where the contract has a guarantee that can only be met by returning the
dog I wil
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:36:21 -0600 "Rusty C Wingate"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ah, haopinions on what to do. Depends, if the pup was pet or
> show
> bought.
This is why all puppies should be sold as pets. I've never understood why
an 8 wk old show prospect that may or may not turn out
In a message dated 11/11/2002 7:05:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> So we buy a puppy from a breeder and she limps and we discover that she has
> elbow dysplasia in one elbow and surgery is recommended. We get a second
> opinion -- same diagnosis and recommendation. Now
My personal ethics do not allow me to "profit" off of
a puppy with genetic problems that result in expensive
treatment, or death of the puppy, before age 2.
Now, the way I breed, I am so far in the hole that
it's not funny so I am not having to deal with the
profit problem. I have had so many $10
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:gwebara@;juno.com]
IMO any breeder
that asks for the dog back in order to get your refund is a scam artist.
Hi Susan,
Circumstances can prevail where a breeder may need to get a puppy or dog
back and this type of contract can provide
Lisa asked:
"I am interested in the opinions of others on the
breeding of dogs or bitches that are HD Fair. I do
not think such dogs should be a part of a breeding
program and wish to hear how others feel about this."
Hi Lisa,
Great question.
I have used an HD fair bitch for breeding and I wil
For some reason I cannot open your attachments..please remove me from your mailing list
>>> Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11/12/02 12:01AM >>>
BERNER-L Digest 4115
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Orthopedic status of breeding st
In a message dated 11/12/2002 8:11:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> It’s time for me to start looking
> for a puppy to spoil, and I’ve had a hard time finding anyone even
> remotely close to me who may be able to help me in this quest.
Hi Tammy,
Best way to locate bre
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Ah, haopinions on what to do. Depends, if the pup was pet or show
bought. By all means the pup should be kept if the person wants it, many
would return if not a 'show' or sound but not me.
Just in passing an outstanding breeder of Lab's offered not only another
show pup but to pay for the sur
on 11/12/02 1:15 AM, Emma at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The gps collars are made of non break material - cannot even be cut off,
> must be unlocked (if it is tha same as the child ones). Very good. plus the
> idea that there may be a locator in the unremovable collar means that dog
> is less of a
Thanks to everyone who offered to help the two purebred BMDs in the Northern
Virginia shelter. They were rescued from a PA puppy mill, so that answers
the questions about where are the breeders.
Here's a note from the shelter. Please, no more calls.
Carol Lingley
Ijamsville, MD
<>
> "Hey, Mom, so you're finishing your end-of-autumn gardening chores?
> I'm a good Berner Boy, so I've helped you!
> "You know that long black thing that Dad calls a soaker hose? Well,
> Mom, somebody buried it under the mulch and stuff, and I'm sure that's NOT
> where you wanted it,
Margie said>>>I don't want my money back and I don't want the breeder to
help pay for surgery. That's what I committed to when I bought a pup from a
breed with known health problems. I want the breeder to acknowledge that
they bred a dog with a problem. I want the breeder to make further breedin
I used Rimadryl for 3 years on my late ( 14 1/2 year old when she passed)
Olde English Sheepdog, in conjunction with glucosamine. I saw a UNBELIEVABLE
diefference in her! For us it worked wonders! I did have her liver base line
done every year , as well as close monitoring by our vet.
I was very ha
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Fellow "L'ers" I guess I should of prefaced my earlier response to "Okay, now what"
scenario with the headers
"Ideal World" AND "When Pigs Fly"
I personally don't think most breeders would offer a refund, much less a replacement
puppy. MOST breeders would probably be sympathetic but would tel
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:postmaster@;registeredsite.com]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 2:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: We have detected a possible virus in your message.
V I R U S A L E R T
Our virus scanner found the
exp
IMO = In My Opinion
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
:)
Internetlanguage
Judith
on 11/12/02 4:19 AM, Laurel Stephenson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Please forgive my ignorance, but what is IMO?
>
> Laurel Stephenson
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is IMO?
Laurel Stephenson
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:gwebara@;juno.com]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 6:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: okay -- now what?
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:05:48 -0700
What I expect from a breeder, or, at least, hope to receive, is sympathy and
support, or, at least support, if dog is found to have breed related
illness.
Folks, just let it go in one ear and out the other, even if "blamed" by
"world's most famous breeder" for problem suffered by your dog.
Did y
LOL. well our 18 week old nearly died at 14 weeks from a bacterial
infection. She has now not only put back the 20% of weight she lost, she has
grown in height and weight. She loves to jump (and no we do not encourage
it), run around, go and peek at the cows next door, visit other dogs, and
dem
And this was so not the advice we were given, Berner dogs in Europe are
still sold as tough strong farm dogs. Our four month old, despite nearly
dying from a bactrerial infecction four weeks ago is stong, growing fast
(but not too fast - just right according to the vet), loves to jump up, over
and
phew we walk our puppy when she asks to go out for a walk. At four and a
half months she gets two ten minute walks a day. Except at weekends when she
plays outside off leash for four or five half hour (or less if she coems
back in) sessions. If she doesn't get her walk she is awful... hyper and
Chasing the mop. eating brusheschewing us... we have been helped
enormously by the wonderful kongs (thank you berner list). Tatty still
steals, but now it is the logs stacked by the fire, our clothes from the
drying rack and brushes!
She steals less, chews more chew sticks (those beef ones
The gps collars are made of non break material - cannot even be cut off,
must be unlocked (if it is tha same as the child ones). Very good. plus the
idea that there may be a locator in the unremovable collar means that dog
is less of a target!
Emma
- Original Message -
From: "Valerie Youn
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