On 15.02.22 17:11, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
...latest reasonably concrete plan around hosting our own
bounty/crowdfunding platform...
An example for zero-overhead-bounties is Lazarus (VCL for Freepascal)
https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Bounties. Well no overhead means we still
have to
Hi all,
On 15/02/2022 17:11, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
Since bugfixing tends to be expensive, the proposal back then was to
'match' community funding with proceeds from e.g. app store sales;
thus effectively steering money towards what users would prominently
want (and also be willing to chip-in
Ah - my mail crossed Simons one.
Killing this part of the thread now ;)
Cor Nouws wrote on 15/02/2022 17:05:
Hi Mike, *,
Mike Saunders wrote on 15/02/2022 16:01:
...
So some kind of bounty system may help to create a more direct link
between users (especially donors) and developers. But
Hi Mike, all,
Mike Saunders wrote:
> So I don't know what the solution is, but as someone who's monitoring our
> social media channels, Reddit and other things every day, I see a huge
> number of feature requests. Many end up on Bugzilla as enhancement requests
> too, of course.
>
Thx for that
Hi Mike, *,
Mike Saunders wrote on 15/02/2022 16:01:
...
So some kind of bounty system may help to create a more direct link
between users (especially donors) and developers. But then Ilmari has
written about issues with FOSS bounty platforms before:
Hi everyone,
On 15.02.22 15:14, Cor Nouws wrote:
Also: at the moment, there is no mechanism in place run bounties by e.g.
bundling of donations of users. Would we have that, then it could be a
way to allow donations to steer (a tiny bit of) development.
Let me just add something here from
Michael Meeks wrote on 10/02/2022 19:08:
On 10/02/2022 14:53, Daniel A. Rodriguez wrote:
This reminds me of a comment by MMeeks where he made reference to the
fact that those who do not code have no say. Which is a total absurdity.
That has slipped my memory.
Mine too ;)
Then I
El 10/2/22 a las 15:08, Michael Meeks escribió:
Hi Daniel,
On 10/02/2022 14:53, Daniel A. Rodriguez wrote:
El 10/2/22 a las 08:30, Stephan Ficht escribió:
So, everyone and everything being an important piece in the mosaic
for the big picture for a FLOSS office suite, called LibreOffice.
El 10/2/22 a las 18:32, Andreas Mantke escribió:
Hi,
Am 10.02.22 um 16:54 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 19:58 +0100:
once I read this sentences the first time, I thought I was in a
different film in 2010. But maybe I didn't understand the
Hi Simon,
thanks for all your considerations regarding accessibility.
On 10/02/2022 23.25, Simon Phipps wrote:
The challenges are often attached to systemic issues and need extended
time of LibreOffice experts to unpick the root cause before implementing
the fix - even specifying them to
+1 from me
Ciao
Paolo
Note to self: propose to institute a position for an honorary member of
the board.
On 10/02/2022 22:32, Andreas Mantke wrote:
Hi,
Am 10.02.22 um 16:54 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 19:58 +0100:
once I read this
Hi,
Am 10.02.22 um 16:54 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 19:58 +0100:
once I read this sentences the first time, I thought I was in a
different film in 2010. But maybe I didn't understand the situation
in OOo project at that time.
I may be wrong,
Hi Thorsten, all,
On 10/02/2022 18.07, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
It is putting the cart in front of the horse though, to start with:
* we want TDF to contribute more code to LibreOffice
and then follow with
* therefore we must employ two developers
Whether or not that's an adequate summary
Hi Daniel,
On 10/02/2022 14:53, Daniel A. Rodriguez wrote:
El 10/2/22 a las 08:30, Stephan Ficht escribió:
So, everyone and everything being an important piece in the mosaic for
the big picture for a FLOSS office suite, called LibreOffice.
Crystal clear, for some of us at least
This reminds
Hi Thorsten!
Thanks for your positive contribution which I agree with completely
(although I do have a comment, see below).
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 5:09 PM Thorsten Behrens
wrote:
> Hi *,
>
> with the lively discussion ensuing here, it is perhaps worth sharing
> my position ahead of the board
Hi Thorsten,
On 10/02/2022 17.55, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
Sole users (i.e. without contributing anything to the community) are
to my mind never part of a FLOSS project community.
Just to mention it, the KDE Code of Conduct [1] contains this:
Our community is made up of several groups of
Hi all,
I'd just like to comment on the exchange below, from my perspective:
Le 10/02/2022 à 15:27, Italo Vignoli a écrit :
Then there is a number of donors who ask to stop the recurring
donation. Some of them provide a reason, which in some cases is that
he wanted to donate once and not
Hi *,
with the lively discussion ensuing here, it is perhaps worth sharing
my position ahead of the board call tomorrow:
Paolo Vecchi wrote:
> Enable TDF to contribute more code to LibreOffice with in-house developers
> to address our donors specific needs
>
I think it is worth considering,
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi wrote:
> I was actually disagreeing with a statement saying that users are not part
> of the community.
>
Then we have to agree to disagree.
Sole users (i.e. without contributing anything to the community) are
to my mind never part of a FLOSS project community.
The rest
Hi all,
On 10/02/2022 12:59, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
Hi *,
Paolo Vecchi wrote:
On 09/02/2022 15:57, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
It is important to understand that "community" means "contributors"; as
opposed to "users". "Users" are not part of the "community", until
they start contributing; via
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 19:58 +0100:
> once I read this sentences the first time, I thought I was in a
> different film in 2010. But maybe I didn't understand the situation
> in OOo project at that time.
I may be wrong, it is a long time ago, but from what I
El 10/2/22 a las 08:30, Stephan Ficht escribió:
Hello,
wrt the subject line and reading through this thread comes in my mind:
"contributors of code" is subset of "contributors of anything" is
subset of "community" is subset of TDF to fulfill its written objectives.
So, everyone and
Hi Italo,
Awesome, thank you so much for the summary!
All the best,
Kendy
Italo Vignoli píše v Čt 10. 02. 2022 v 15:27 +0100:
> On 2/10/22 14:56, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
>
> > Comes to my mind - as you deal with the donors daily, and
> > particularly
> > ask them why do they want to stop their
On 2/10/22 14:56, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
Comes to my mind - as you deal with the donors daily, and particularly
ask them why do they want to stop their recurring donations (in case
they do), I wonder if there is an aggregated data available somewhere?
The majority of recurring donations is
Hi Stephan,
Stephan Ficht píše v Čt 10. 02. 2022 v 14:28 +0100:
> Yeah, on the one hand it's satisfaction, and from my POV dealing
> with
> donors nearly every day, on the other hand, and in many cases, it's
> even
> an incentive, a support, and an expectation to improve what the wide
>
Hi Olivier,
+1
Am 10.02.22 um 13:50 schrieb Olivier Hallot:
One cent in donation is a manifest of satisfaction on LibreOffice.
It sums to ~1M yearly of users satisfaction.
Yeah, on the one hand it's satisfaction, and from my POV dealing with
donors nearly every day, on the other hand, and in
Hi Olivier,
Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Other users express their happiness translating, adding linguistic stuff,
> documenting and building culture in askbot, telegram channels and regional
> meetings.
>
I would consider those users contributors.
> I wonder who is actually listening to users.
>
I
Thanks Olivier!
I'm pleased that you clarified the importance of users so well but I'm
also worried about the fact that this clarification was needed in the
first place.
Ciao
Paolo
On 10/02/2022 13:50, Olivier Hallot wrote:
Thanks for making it clearer.
I'd like to imagine LibreOffice
Hi Kendy,
On 10/02/2022 10:49, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 19:56 +0100:
He asked himself quite a few interesting questions:
"Without sharing too much, there are some moral questions popping up
for
me. Who owns the community? Who owns ownCloud itself?
Thanks for making it clearer.
I'd like to imagine LibreOffice with myriads of code contributors and no
users. Better not.
Fact: users donate.
Currently donation is not tied to any TDF obligation, it is an
expression of satisfaction or good will. Donation is a also pain that
users go thru
Hi Stephan,
Stephan Ficht píše v Čt 10. 02. 2022 v 12:30 +0100:
> wrt the subject line and reading through this thread comes in my
> mind:
>
> "contributors of code" is subset of "contributors of anything" is
> subset
> of "community" is subset of TDF to fulfill its written objectives.
Thank
Hi Stephan,
Le 10/02/2022 à 12:30, Stephan Ficht a écrit :
Hello,
wrt the subject line and reading through this thread comes in my mind:
"contributors of code" is subset of "contributors of anything" is subset
of "community" is subset of TDF to fulfill its written objectives.
So, everyone
Hi *,
Paolo Vecchi wrote:
> On 09/02/2022 15:57, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
> > It is important to understand that "community" means "contributors"; as
> > opposed to "users". "Users" are not part of the "community", until
> > they start contributing; via code, QA, translations, marketing under
> >
Hi Regis,
Regis Perdreau píše v Čt 10. 02. 2022 v 11:21 +0100:
> Some parts of LibreOffice are not covered by the ecosystem...
> Although we sometimes have customers who ask for improvements :
If you talk about customers - it sounds like there is a company willing
to pay to fix those. With my
+1
Maybe the only thing missing is "users" as subset of community.
I guess that the "contributors of anything" are also "users" of
LibreOffice and that any "user" is a potential "contributor of anything" ;-)
Ciao
Paolo
On 10/02/2022 12:30, Stephan Ficht wrote:
Hello,
wrt the subject line
Hello,
wrt the subject line and reading through this thread comes in my mind:
"contributors of code" is subset of "contributors of anything" is subset
of "community" is subset of TDF to fulfill its written objectives.
So, everyone and everything being an important piece in the mosaic for
Hi,
Some parts of LibreOffice are not covered by the ecosystem...
Although we sometimes have customers who ask for improvements :
May be those topics below are not fashionable but they contribute to give
some credibility to LibreOffice
- VBA compatibility
- Basic bugs
- Base enhancement
-
Hi Lothar,
Lothar K. Becker píše v Čt 10. 02. 2022 v 11:12 +0100:
> It was one of my first and foremost task as chair - and let me add it
> was hard time consuming work - that everybody was heard and could
> speak, it is simply not true, that contributors wasn't heard.
I am sorry, I didn't
Hi Kendy,
Am 10.02.2022 um 10:49 schrieb Jan
Holesovsky:
because from what I can see, TDF was not listening to the contributors
the last 2 years too much.
sorry to step in here but at this point I have to take part:
It was one
Hi Kendy,
On 09/02/2022 15:57, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 15:09 +0100:
The community and our valuable members of the ecosystem have been
asking us to invest more in development
It is important to understand that "community" means "contributors"; as
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 19:56 +0100:
> He asked himself quite a few interesting questions:
> "Without sharing too much, there are some moral questions popping up
> for
> me. Who owns the community? Who owns ownCloud itself? And what
> matters
> more, short term money or
Hi,
Am 09.02.22 um 10:44 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Daniel,
Daniel A. Rodriguez píše v Út 08. 02. 2022 v 19:31 -0300:
I think Andreas hits the nail on the head when he mentions that in
other
projects no company dominates the project or the community.
The contrary is true: Most of the
Hi Kendy,
On 09/02/2022 10:44, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
Hi Daniel,
Daniel A. Rodriguez píše v Út 08. 02. 2022 v 19:31 -0300:
I think Andreas hits the nail on the head when he mentions that in
other
projects no company dominates the project or the community.
The contrary is true: Most of the
Thorsten Behrens wrote on 09/02/2022 18:11:
sophi wrote:
Do you have any insight into why the community has not chosen to fix the
issue please?
Reading through the bug (which was only an example) and other contributions,
I don't think we can say that the community has not chosen to fix their
sophi wrote:
> > Do you have any insight into why the community has not chosen to fix the
> > issue please?
>
> Reading through the bug (which was only an example) and other contributions,
> I don't think we can say that the community has not chosen to fix their
> issues.
>
Wasn't that meant to
Hi Simon,
Le 09/02/2022 à 16:53, Simon Phipps a écrit :
Hi Sophi!
On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 3:32 PM sophi wrote:
Hi Kendy,
Le 09/02/2022 à 15:57, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 15:09 +0100:
The community and our valuable members of the ecosystem
Hi Sophi!
On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 3:32 PM sophi wrote:
> Hi Kendy,
> Le 09/02/2022 à 15:57, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :
> > Hi Paolo,
> >
> > Paolo Vecchi píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 15:09 +0100:
> >
> >> The community and our valuable members of the ecosystem have been
> >> asking us to invest more
Hi Kendy,
Le 09/02/2022 à 15:57, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 15:09 +0100:
The community and our valuable members of the ecosystem have been
asking us to invest more in development
It is important to understand that "community" means
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi píše v St 09. 02. 2022 v 15:09 +0100:
> The community and our valuable members of the ecosystem have been
> asking us to invest more in development
It is important to understand that "community" means "contributors"; as
opposed to "users". "Users" are not part of the
Hi Simon,
thank you for sharing your opinions with us.
On 08/02/2022 19:44, Simon Phipps wrote:
Hi Andreas!
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 5:59 PM Andreas Mantke wrote:
but it wouldn't improve the situation, if - like today - the
experienced
fisherman / fishermen take every new
Hi Cor,
do you mind explaining to us what you mean with the sentence below?
On 08/02/2022 22:32, Cor Nouws wrote:
I'm far from convinced that it leads to anything good when a
foundation tries to bend the forces that drive a commercial market.
Cheers,
Cor
Ciao
Paolo
--
Paolo Vecchi -
Hi Daniel,
Daniel A. Rodriguez píše v Út 08. 02. 2022 v 19:31 -0300:
> I think Andreas hits the nail on the head when he mentions that in
> other
> projects no company dominates the project or the community.
The contrary is true: Most of the successful open source projects have
a major,
To give this discussion another spin: We pondered in the team about hiring a web
developer. Someone between infra, code, mentoring and design. This person could
also care about extension development (an area where users can participate in
the development without knowing C++).
But in any case
El 8/2/22 a las 17:06, Andreas Mantke escribió:
Hi Simon,
Am 08.02.22 um 19:44 schrieb Simon Phipps:
Hi Andreas!
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 5:59 PM Andreas Mantke wrote:
but it wouldn't improve the situation, if - like today - the
experienced
fisherman / fishermen take every new
Hi Andras,
Andreas Mantke wrote on 08/02/2022 18:58:
The best person that can teach you how to fish is an experienced
fisherman.
My example would be fruit grower and fruit picker (after all, the apple
came before the fisherman ;) ) but apart from that:
but it wouldn't improve the
Hi Simon,
Am 08.02.22 um 19:44 schrieb Simon Phipps:
Hi Andreas!
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 5:59 PM Andreas Mantke wrote:
but it wouldn't improve the situation, if - like today - the
experienced
fisherman / fishermen take every new talented fisher immediately from
the free
Hi Andreas!
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 5:59 PM Andreas Mantke wrote:
>
> but it wouldn't improve the situation, if - like today - the experienced
> fisherman / fishermen take every new talented fisher immediately from
> the free software developer (volunteer) market.
>
> Thus there is now chance
Hi Paolo,
Am 08.02.22 um 17:34 schrieb Paolo Vecchi:
(...)
On 08/02/2022 16:41, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
(..)
if we talk about TDF employees or contractors, we need more
mentors - because that is the only way how to scale:
"Give a person a fish, and you feed them for a day. Teach a person
Hi Kendy,
thanks for participating to the discussion.
On 08/02/2022 16:41, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
Hi all,
Paolo Vecchi píše v Po 07. 02. 2022 v 19:16 +0100:
Enable TDF to contribute more code to LibreOffice with in-house
developers to address our donors specific needs
My candidacy statement
Hi all,
Paolo Vecchi píše v Po 07. 02. 2022 v 19:16 +0100:
> Enable TDF to contribute more code to LibreOffice with in-house
> developers to address our donors specific needs
My candidacy statement was much more focused on the community growth;
so I'd like to propose a different vision:
TDF
Hi all,
many of you voted for me as you wanted me to promote and achieve the
goals set in my candidacy statement:
https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2021/msg00279.html
Point 1 is what leads me once again to share with the community my
intention to push forward
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