Tom Metro wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
...if desperate you have to wonder *why* they are desperate - what is it
about them that has kept them unemployed?
If their skills were unmarketable why could they not learn new skills?
You do realize that we're in the midst of a discussion pondering the
very
David Cantrell wrote:
...if desperate you have to wonder *why* they are desperate - what is it
about them that has kept them unemployed?
If their skills were unmarketable why could they not learn new skills?
You do realize that we're in the midst of a discussion pondering the
very question of whet
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Uri Guttman wrote:
> i will recruit general gao to lead my army! (nyc spells it tso ??). i
> will use the kung pao fist to beat on my enemy and the tao of
> programming as my guide. my soldiers will be the shaolin soccer team.
> your fortune cookie reads, "you will lose badl
> "CD" == Chris Devers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
CD> On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Aaron Sherman wrote:
>> Oh, and while I'm thinking about dinner (don't ask), I want to mention
>> that there is an AWESOME new Chinese restaurant in Allston called
>> Shanghai Gate. If we can arrange an off-peak
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Aaron Sherman wrote:
> Oh, and while I'm thinking about dinner (don't ask), I want to mention
> that there is an AWESOME new Chinese restaurant in Allston called
> Shanghai Gate. If we can arrange an off-peak time to go (they get packed
> around 7-9PM) that would be a very nice
On Fri, 2005-03-04 at 14:02, Greg London wrote:
> andrew burke said:
> >> I never excluded people. I was asking them to play a different game.
> >> And I asked those who didn't want to play, to find a different game.
> >
> > This is said without realizing the irony?
>
> Hey, where were you as Iro
andrew burke said:
>>> Not on a public list, no. You are free to ask the question, but not to
>>> expect others to constrain themselves to your arbitrary lines of
>>> response. It's not that people don't like you personally, it's just that
>>> we all feel kind of put upon to be told, "don't say wh
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 13:08:37 -0500, Aaron Sherman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-03-04 at 07:54, Kate Wood wrote:
>
> > [...] the barriers to learning and using Perl
> [...]
> > Managers, [...] expect you to have [available certification]
>
> You do realize that those are orthoganal, r
On Fri, 2005-03-04 at 07:54, Kate Wood wrote:
> [...] the barriers to learning and using Perl
[...]
> Managers, [...] expect you to have [available certification]
You do realize that those are orthoganal, right?
What's more, I GUARANTEE you that I could go learn Java (for which there
is a strong
>> Not on a public list, no. You are free to ask the question, but not to
>> expect others to constrain themselves to your arbitrary lines of
>> response. It's not that people don't like you personally, it's just that
>> we all feel kind of put upon to be told, "don't say what you think, just
>> le
> I'd just like to express my appreciation for all the fun in this thread.
> Far better than going to the zoo and watching monkeys run around their
> cage.
yes, as one of the monkeys on the list, it's been a blast for me too.
___
Boston-pm mailing lis
I'd just like to express my appreciation for all the fun in this thread.
Far better than going to the zoo and watching monkeys run around their
cage.
--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Aaron Sherman said:
> On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 23:52 -0500, Greg London wrote:
>> So, my message has always been along the line of
>> can I just play around with this idea foolishly,
>> without all the reasons why it will never work?
>
> Not on a public list, no. You are free to ask the question, but
> Indeed. Keeping Perl as an island of elitism, which certification
> would threaten to obviate, is a self-serving, self-aggrandizing,
> self-preservative instinct at its finest. Caveat being that when Perl
I think that certification would actually _increase_ the barriers to
learning and using P
On Fri, 2005-03-04 at 07:02 -0500, James Linden Rose, III wrote:
> On Friday, March 4, 2005, at 01:10 AM, Aaron Sherman wrote:
> > If you want to talk about making Perl more popular, here are some ideas
> > ranked in order of how likely I think they are to succeed in terms of
> > large scale adopti
On Friday, March 4, 2005, at 01:10 AM, Aaron Sherman wrote:
If you want to talk about making Perl more popular, here are some ideas
ranked in order of how likely I think they are to succeed in terms of
large scale adoption.
* Help make CPANPLUS work well with all extant package managers
* Work on P
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 01:30:14PM -0500, John Tsangaris wrote:
> David Cantrell wrote:
> >"Sneaking in" perl code is unprofessional. ...
> Again, you may be taking the statement a little too literally. Not to be
> offensive, but you seem to be taking a high
> horse stance on this. You just may
On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 23:52 -0500, Greg London wrote:
> Did you ever get a cool idea for a problem
> and just dive into it, explore it, learn
> about it, try out different things, and play?
Yes. When I do that, I don't post to a public list saying, "what if I
just take this line of code, and move
On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 16:15 -0500, Greg London wrote:
> Ben Tilly said:
> > I think responses are more along the lines of, "certification
> > introduces a lot of problems, and we don't see how you'll
> > make a certification become accepted."
>
> I don't know how it can be done, so it must not be
Ben Tilly said:
> Greg, I really feel that if anyone is overreacting here, it is
> you. I'll try once more, after which I'll stop responding to
> you because you don't appear to be listening.
> Your message has been along the line of, "We just have to
> try this and great things will happen." I
Greg, I really feel that if anyone is overreacting here, it is
you. I'll try once more, after which I'll stop responding to
you because you don't appear to be listening.
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 16:15:10 -0500 (EST), Greg London
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ben Tilly said:
> > I think responses are
On Thursday, March 3, 2005, at 03:16 PM, Sean Quinlan wrote:
I accept that writing cool code
is THE BEST WAY to help the Popularity of Perl. I (and others) keep
saying that.
I advert Perl right on KanjiCafe.com's home page in a parody of an old
Rolling Stones album cover cum Italian coffee shop
Ben Tilly said:
> I think responses are more along the lines of, "certification
> introduces a lot of problems, and we don't see how you'll
> make a certification become accepted."
I don't know how it can be done, so it must not be possible.
> I think responses are more along the lines of, "we d
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:46:19 -0500 (EST), Greg London
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Chris Devers said:
> > I think it would be nice if Perl were more popular. I don't think
> > advocacy is a bad thing. I don't think certification, or courses, are
> > unreasonable. But of the ways I can think of to
Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If Perl per se matters to you that much, then you should find some way
to make it your day job.
Hmmm...isn't that sort of what were talking about? If there's no job
market for Perl, that's kinda hard to do. Even if you run a business
where Perl is embedded,
On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 14:46 -0500, John Macdonald wrote:
> There have been people talking about certification for well
> over a decade now, talking more about it is very stale.
And here's my problem. Please look at the subject. Why are you dragging
certification back into this? I thought we droppe
Chris Devers said:
> I think it would be nice if Perl were more popular. I don't think
> advocacy is a bad thing. I don't think certification, or courses, are
> unreasonable. But of the ways I can think of to make Perl more popular,
> I'm not sure that any of these will be more effective than simp
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Greg London wrote:
> Chris Devers said:
> > Advocacy *doesn't* work well.
>
> > But beyond keeping sites like that prominent, there's not really a lot
> > that can be done, pragmatically speaking, that seems likely to help.
>
> This is the same "I can't see how it will work,
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 12:23:04PM -0500, Greg London wrote:
>
> Chris Devers said:
> > Advocacy *doesn't* work well.
>
> > But beyond keeping sites like that prominent, there's not really a lot
> > that can be done, pragmatically speaking, that seems likely to help.
>
> This is the same "I can'
>I've *never* been hired to do perl coding. I've been hired to write
>software to solve problems.
I think that he didn't mean that literally, but more of a general statement of
solving problems specifically using
perl. :-/
>"Sneaking in" perl code is unprofessional. All code you write should
Chris Devers said:
> Advocacy *doesn't* work well.
> But beyond keeping sites like that prominent, there's not really a lot
> that can be done, pragmatically speaking, that seems likely to help.
This is the same "I can't see how it will work,
so it must not be possible" line of reasoning.
Just b
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Greg London wrote:
> Adam Turoff said:
> > On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 10:33:20AM -0500, Sean Quinlan wrote:
> >> > If Perl per se matters to you that much, then you should find some
> >> > way to make it your day job. Find a new employer, start your own
> >> > business, whatever
On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 10:59 -0500, Adam Turoff wrote:
> Discuss advocacy and popularity at the expense of building cool tools
> with Perl.
Huh?!? Sorry Adam, but WTF? Who ever said that building cools tools
isn't important. I would certainly agree that it is, and indeed more
important. I'm saying
Adam Turoff said:
> On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 10:33:20AM -0500, Sean Quinlan wrote:
>> > If Perl per se matters to you that much, then you should find some
>> > way to make it your day job. Find a new employer, start your own
>> > business, whatever it takes.
>>
>> What the heck do you think we're
Adam Turoff said:
> If Perl per se matters to you that much, then you should find some way
> to make it your day job. Find a new employer, start your own business,
> whatever it takes.
>
> s/Perl/(Bike Riding|Gardening|Cooking|Painting|Teaching|Filmmaking)/; as
> appropriate. There is nothing ma
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 10:33:20AM -0500, Sean Quinlan wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 09:56 -0500, Adam Turoff wrote:
> > If Perl per se matters to you that much, then you should find some way
> > to make it your day job. Find a new employer, start your own business,
> > whatever it takes.
> >
>
Tom, thanks for voicing many of the same concerns I've had recently,
especially as I watched this debate evolve. I too have been making a living
for several years working in Perl, and would much prefer to continue doing
so into the future. I've worked in many languages in over 30 years of
progra
On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 09:56 -0500, Adam Turoff wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 03:39:04AM -0500, Tom Metro wrote:
> > For me, popularity matters for two reasons:
> >
> > 1. If you like Perl enough that you'd like it to be all or a big part of
> > your day job.
>
> If Perl per se matters to you
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 03:39:04AM -0500, Tom Metro wrote:
> For me, popularity matters for two reasons:
>
> 1. If you like Perl enough that you'd like it to be all or a big part of
> your day job.
If Perl per se matters to you that much, then you should find some way
to make it your day job. F
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 03:39:04AM -0500, Tom Metro wrote:
> For me, popularity matters for two reasons:
>
> 1. If you like Perl enough that you'd like it to be all or a big part of
> your day job.
>
> Which leads me to something I've been wondering about lately: How many
> Boston.pm members c
John Redford wrote:
Can someone remind me why Perl needs to be more popular?
My friend and former colleague John Tsangaris addressed this fairly
well, but I'd like to expand on his points a bit.
For me, popularity matters for two reasons:
1. If you like Perl enough that you'd like it to be all or
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