Damon wrote:
>
> >Quit those other lists, then. I mean, when you have Brin-L, why
would you
> >need any other lists? :-)
>
> Well, Jeroen, if Brin-L can supply my gaming fix then you'd have a
valid
> point! Anyone want to talk about Fading Suns RPG or Battletech? :)
I'm a GURPS man myself, but I
> From: Damon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Well, Jeroen, if Brin-L can supply my gaming fix then you'd
> have a valid point! Anyone want to talk about Fading Suns
> RPG or Battletech? :)
Not those but I'll talk Hero System (Champions) anytime!
- jmh
_
At 12:13 21-03-03 -0500, Damon Agretto wrote:
Quit those other lists, then. I mean, when you have Brin-L, why would you
need any other lists? :-)
Well, Jeroen, if Brin-L can supply my gaming fix then you'd have a valid
point! Anyone want to talk about Fading Suns RPG or Battletech? :)
All is B
On 21 Mar 2003 at 12:13, Damon wrote:
>
> >Quit those other lists, then. I mean, when you have Brin-L, why would
> >you need any other lists? :-)
>
> Well, Jeroen, if Brin-L can supply my gaming fix then you'd have a
> valid point! Anyone want to talk about Fading Suns RPG or Battletech?
> :)
Quit those other lists, then. I mean, when you have Brin-L, why would you
need any other lists? :-)
Well, Jeroen, if Brin-L can supply my gaming fix then you'd have a valid
point! Anyone want to talk about Fading Suns RPG or Battletech? :)
Damon.
-
I do remember seeing a history of WWII that indicated that the Nazis were
first greeted as liberators in the USSR, until their behavior turned people
against them. If they were as generous with terms of occupation in the
USSR as they were in France, would the citizens of the USSR have fought as
h
At 11:47 21-03-03 -0500, Damon Agretto wrote:
Problem with Brin-L and my desire to keep up with other lists is that,
invariably, I get way behind!
Quit those other lists, then. I mean, when you have Brin-L, why would you
need any other lists? :-)
Jeroen "Brin-L Propaganda" van Baardwijk
That's the truly shocking thing. Even in Nazi
Germany, if you wanted out of the mass execution
squads, (einsatzgruppen, I think, but I bet Damon will
correct me)
You are correct I think. Problem with Brin-L and my desire to keep up with
other lists is that, invariably, I get way behind!
Damon.
it just didn't make sense. All is not, however, lost,
as I am currently trying to pull what (few) strings I
have to get an exemption for the color-blindess (odds
are low, but possible) and, if I do, I will explore
the possibility of doing two years _after_ my current
job, although at 25 I will be
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of J. van Baardwijk
>
I guess I'd better make note of the fact that your friendly local list
managers observed and acted upon said personal attack in our usual manner.
Which is to say, quietly and calmly wh
At 17:25 18-03-03 -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote:
With all those security measures in place, and with all that military
hardware in position around DC, it is probably one of the safest urban
areas in the country right now... Given all those security measures,
chances are that I am taking more risk th
At 21:19 18-03-03 +, John Giorgis wrote:
First question for you - do they have to irradiate the mail in your office
because several people in *your* city have _died_ from anthrax?
Didn't think so.
How can you be sure that they don't irradiate the mail over here?
I'm not sure if they *are* i
At 05:34 PM 3/18/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
Jon Gabriel wrote:
> DC was targeted by Muslim terrorists before: the attack on the Pentagon,
> where John *works* (did it completely escape your notice that if he had
been
> in another section of the building he works in he might have been killed
Jon Gabriel wrote:
> DC was targeted by Muslim terrorists before: the attack on the Pentagon,
> where John *works* (did it completely escape your notice that if he had been
> in another section of the building he works in he might have been killed
> that day?) and the failed terror plane attack t
From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:45:34 +0100
At 16:33 17-03-03 -0600
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "J. van Baardwijk"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > What risk would that be?
> >He lives in the DC area.
>
> With all those security measures in place, and with all that
military
> hardware in position around DC, it is probably one of the safest
urban
> areas in the
At 16:33 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Minette wrote:
> What risk would that be? The only action he is involved in is posting
> Bush-regime propaganda to a mailing list; what risks he is exposing
> himself to by doing that (other than having his arguments shot to
> barrels time and time again)?
He lives in
From: Bryon Daly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:47:20 -0500
iaamoac wrote:
> Whenever I walk by th
iaamoac wrote:
> Whenever I walk by there, I can't help but be astonished that it was
> *only* 60 years ago - and yet it seems so absolutely unthinkable
> today. Sure we can all talk about technological development over
> the last century, but our ethical development is almost as awe-
> inspirin
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of iaamoac
...
> Whenever I walk by there, I can't help but be astonished that it was
> *only* 60 years ago - and yet it seems so absolutely unthinkable
> today. Sure we can all talk about technological de
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Erik Reuter
...
> Well, I'd hope in my country, if the police started rounding up an
> ethnic group and shipping them out, that the majority of people would
> march in the streets and force the police to
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As I've grown older, I am more and more astonished that the
> Holocaust happened in my own father's lifetime. I often find
> myself thinking that humanity hasn't evolved much in the 50 years
> that have passed, at least in the
- Original Message -
From: "Doug Pensinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
> Dan Minette wrote:
>
- Original Message -
From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
> --- Jon Gabriel <[EMAIL PROTECTE
On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 06:41:33PM -0800, Nick Arnett wrote:
> If the majority of French people favored "evacuation" of the Jews (to
> put it as mildly as they might have rationalized it to be, especially
> before the 'final solution' began), surely the losses would have been
> far, far greater, d
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Gautam Mukunda
...
> Actually, I don't think it did. France's record was
> better than I thought it was, without question.
> _But_, the article certainly didn't say that France
> protected its Jews. A
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Erik Reuter
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:17 P
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 07
--- Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not that I don't take Gautam at his word, but Nick
> has posted an article
> that contradicts his contention that the French
> didn't protect French
> Jews. Why do you continue to favor Gautam's
> statements?
>
> Also, France today has one of the
Dan Minette wrote:
How many non-Jews were sent to concentration camps for helping the Jews?
How many were put to death? If I read Gautam right, many people did fight
the Holocaust with relatively minimal risk.
Not that I don't take Gautam at his word, but Nick has posted an article
that contradi
On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 07:53:28AM -0800, Nick Arnett wrote:
> http://muweb.millersville.edu/~holo-con/laub.html
>
> French police caught most of the 80,000 Jews who later perished on
> German concentration camps.
Any idea why the French police caught 80,000 Jews? What did the French
police expec
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of J. van Baardwijk
> But how many Jews *in absolute numbers* were
> saved/rescued/protected in the
> various European countries? FREX, Denmark is a considerably
> smaller country
> (in both populat
At 16:56 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Minette wrote:
> Moderate risk? It was a _major_ risk. A HUGE risk. People who were
> discovered protecting Jews were treated like Jews. They risked not
> only their own lives but those of their families. They may have been
> cowards but I can understand their fea
--- Jon Gabriel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >How many non-Jews were sent to concentration camps
> for helping the Jews?
> >How many were put to death? If I read Gautam
> right, many people did fight
> >the Holocaust with relatively minimal risk.
>
> If that's what Gautam is saying, then I think
- Original Message -
From: "Jon Gabriel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
> >From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> &g
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:33:17 -0600
- Original
--- "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Apparently not -- unless he signed up for military
> service in the front
> lines in Iraq, and didn't bother to tell us about
> it.
>
> Jeroen "Make love, not war" van Baardwijk
Not an entirely unfair question, although rather
ironic coming fro
- Original Message -
From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
> At 15:34 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Min
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:34:58 -0600
- Original
At 15:34 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Minette wrote:
> No, spoken like someone who knows that with most people in such a
> situation, their survival instinct kicks in and takes over.
But, Gautam provided plenty of counterexamples in other countries where
the Nazis attacked. Examples where people's lives
- Original Message -
From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
> No, spoken like someone who kn
At 20:39 17-03-03 +, John Giorgis wrote:
> >If the US was under such occupation, what would happen? Well, I hope
> >to God that if I wasn't dead, I'd be helping to smuggle Jews out of
> >the country, and I'm confident that the rest of the population would
> >do the same.
>
> That's very unlik
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "J. van Baardwijk"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 19:20 16-03-03 -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
>
> >If the US was under such occupation, what would happen? Well, I
hope to
> >God that if I wasn't dead, I'd be helping to smuggle Jews out of
the
> >country, and I'm co
At 19:20 16-03-03 -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
If the US was under such occupation, what would happen? Well, I hope to
God that if I wasn't dead, I'd be helping to smuggle Jews out of the
country, and I'm confident that the rest of the population would do the same.
That's very unlikely. It is e
Matt Grimaldi wrote:
> It also says "If you don't do exactly as we want, then
> we'll consider you an enemy." It worries me greatly
> that our government has to resort to intimidation bordering
> on extortion in order to attempt an action that they
> consider so obvious and self-evident.
Who has
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dan Minette
...
> Maybe some numbers would help. How many escaped from France with French
> help? Gautam claimed that the French record was much worse than other
> countries. Do you have numbers that i
Nick Arnett wrote:
>
> If there's anything I really want to criticize,
> it's the "if you're not for us, then you're
> against us" attitude that seems to pervade
> discussion (if it can be called that) of this war.
> I'm not talking about here on the list so much as
> on the international stage.
Dan Minette wrote:
Maybe some numbers would help. How many escaped from France with French
help? Gautam claimed that the French record was much worse than other
countries. Do you have numbers that indicate that the French did a heroic
job fighting the actions of the Vichy goverment that was imp
- Original Message -
From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:03 PM
Subject: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
> > -Original Message-
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
> I would go so far as to say that the people of France
> could hardly have fought less hard. But the Vichy
> government, as I've pointed out several times, and as
> you've never even
--- Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Perhaps it isn't clear that this is about context,
> not facts. Clearly,
> Gautam knows the facts. My objection is the failure
> to contextualize the
> Vichy "government" as a puppet of the Nazis, with
> policies that did not
> exist before or after.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dan Minette
...
> May I make a suggestion that will probably be ignored. I'm betting both
> Nick and Gautam are accurately reflecting what they were taught. I'm
> guessing they were taught different thi
--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> May I make a suggestion that will probably be
> ignored. I'm betting both
> Nick and Gautam are accurately reflecting what they
> were taught. I'm
> guessing they were taught different things. I'd be
> interested in either a
> detailed examination of
- Original Message -
From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
> --- Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECT
At 12:37 16-03-03 -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
Mais tu parles l'histoire Francais comme un imbecile arrogant, pour je
parle francais aussi.
It's been twenty years since my last French class, but somewhat to my
surprise I had no problem translating that sentence to English. I could
also tell th
At 11:19 16-03-03 -0800, Nick Arnett wrote:
People are so... weird.
Nah. All of us are normal, it's just you who's weird. :-)
Jeroen "Jokes'R'Us" van Baardwijk
_
Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://w
At 11:05 16-03-03 -0500, John Giorgis wrote:
There's also the matter of French preservation of language and
culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign word
in business. When computers first became widely available, phrases such
as "le software" and "le hardware" came i
--- Erik Reuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And you criticizing someone for dropping names???
> Next, will you be
> criticizing someone for defending their argument
> with their resume?
> "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I have to admit, it didn't occur to me until
afterwards that Father R
--- Jean-Marc Chaton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Gautam Mukunda [Sat, 15/03/2003 at 20:12 -0800]
> You forgot to mention that Germans had 1.5 Millions
> French hostages held
> in captivity in Germany.
Well, sure. Shit happened to a lot of people in the
Second World War. That doesn't change a
--- Jean-Marc Chaton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:10 -]
> > France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority,
> especially at present.
>^
>
> /me doesn't bother to answer.
>
> --
> Jean-Marc
I think he means "mi
--- Erik Reuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Vous parlez l'histoire Francais comme une vache de
> droite.
> >
> > Et si vous comprenez (sans assistance), peut-etre
> vous connaissez plue que
> > je pense.
>
> Here's how google translated that :-)
>
> You speak the French history like a cow a
--- Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Vous parlez l'histoire Francais comme une vache de
> droite.
>
> Et si vous comprenez (sans assistance), peut-etre
> vous connaissez plue que
> je pense.
>
> (Which probably has some errors, but I don't get to
> practice much these
> days, despite almo
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Andrew Crystall
...
> > There's also the matter of French preservation of language and
> > culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign
> > word in business. When computers first bec
On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 11:05:53 -0500 (EST), John D. Giorgis wrote:
>---Original Message---
>From: Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>There's also the matter of French preservation of language
>and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use
>a foreign word in business. When compute
On 16 Mar 2003 at 10:21, Nick Arnett wrote:
> > > France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present.
> >
> > The majority of people in France today are neo-Nazis? I'm starting
> > to wonder if I've completely lost my mind.
>
> Okay, now I realize what you meant to write. Sorry,
---Original Message---
From: Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
There's also the matter of French preservation of language
and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use
a foreign word in business. When computers first became
widely available, phrases such as "le software"
and
---Original Message---
From: Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
There's also the matter of French preservation of language
and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use
a foreign word in business. When computers first became
widely available, phrases such as "le software"
an
* Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:26 +]
> On 16 Mar 2003 at 14:17, Jean-Marc Chaton wrote:
>
> > * Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:10 -]
> > > France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present.
> >^
> >
> > /me doe
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Erik Reuter
...
> in an earlier thread, certainly looks to me like you picked this fight.
Absolutely. I jumped into the thread because I found what I read to be
important and inaccurate. So, sure, I st
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Nick Arnett
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:14 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
>
>
> > -Original
On 16 Mar 2003 at 9:14, Nick Arnett wrote:
> > France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present.
>
> The majority of people in France today are neo-Nazis? I'm starting to
> wonder if I've completely lost my mind.
Once again, it was a misstype - minority.
I was thinking of somet
At 13:26 16-03-03 +, Andy Crystall wrote:
> > France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present.
>^
>
> /me doesn't bother to answer.
sigh minority.
I've been up for ~30 hours.
If you want to be an idiot, be an idiot. Nothing I don't
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Andrew Crystall
...
> France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present.
The majority of people in France today are neo-Nazis? I'm starting to
wonder if I've completely lost my mind.
Ni
On 16 Mar 2003 at 14:17, Jean-Marc Chaton wrote:
> * Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:10 -]
> > France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present.
>^
>
> /me doesn't bother to answer.
sigh minority.
I've been up for ~30 hour
* Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:10 -]
> France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present.
^
/me doesn't bother to answer.
--
Jean-Marc
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinf
On 15 Mar 2003 at 20:44, Nick Arnett wrote:
> > realize, by the French Catholic Church, by the
> > Resistance, or by anyone else of significance in
> > French society. You might want to look up the
> > Dreyfuss Affair for more information on how deeply
> > anti-Semitism was set into the elites of
On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 01:02:47AM -0800, Nick Arnett wrote:
> Proclaiming that I don't know what I'm talking about and dropping
> names... means what? Not an honored debate approach, IIRC.
Nick, in a previous message you ended with this paragraph:
> Given your earlier misrepresentation of Fren
* Gautam Mukunda [Sat, 15/03/2003 at 20:12 -0800]
> Since they seem to be made by someone who knows a
> _lot_ less of France's history than I do, no, not
> really. The Vichy government was a collaborationist
> government of France that ran southern France _without
> German occupation_ for much of
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
> 1. Your claims to know French history would be more
> convincing if you displayed _knowledge of_ French
> history and
> 2. Apparently not. I guess it was too much to ask. I
> had di
--- Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Now, are we done? Do you want to at least pretend
> to
> > be civil to me, and stop calling me a fascist or a
> > bigot,
>
> Posturing yourself as a victim of name-calling
> doesn't make you any more
> correct, either. If you're feeling like I'm
> d
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
...
> Since they seem to be made by someone who knows a
> _lot_ less of France's history than I do, no, not
> really. The Vichy government was a collaborationist
> government of France tha
--- Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Given your earlier misrepresentation of French
> gratitude about its
> liberation in WWII and now this comment, I'm
> wondering if you simply don't
> know much about France or you have some anti-French
> prejudice, or it is
> carelessness driven by your
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