Thanks. I found another way around it. Just dealing with something that
was already put together strangely, where some embedded functional code into
a CMS WYSIWYG editor.
Robert Harrison
Full Stack Developer
AIMG
rharri...@aimg.com
Main Office: 704-321-1234 ext.118
Direct Line: 516-302-4345
We needed to do something similar and we actually wrote the content to a file
and included that.
It worked perfectly.
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
No, CF wonât evaluate the output of a database query - nor should it. Â That
would pose all sorts of security and stability concerns. Â A better solution is
to incorporate the dynamic content you want in to your CMS as a module. Â Most
CMS systems have a method for including custom modular
when you need to put dynamic content then you should never allow CODE,
instead use macros
e.g.
[include:filename]
you then parse the content before displaying to process the macros.
read this article for more info:
http://www.michaels.me.uk/post.cfm/content-management-processing-dynamic-content
I have a situation where I need to embed a CFINCLUDE in a CMS data field
which is output. How do I get the include to render? Can I even do that?
Example is like cfoutput#mydata#/cfoutput . the include is in the mydata
output. Can I evaluate or something?
Thanks
Robert Harrison
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Nick Gleason n.glea...@citysoft.comwrote:
Hi Pete,
I've been researching CSP and it sounds like a pretty cool option. But, I
just wanted to follow up on this comment that you made
below:-- it will also block inline
Hi Pete,
I've been researching CSP and it sounds like a pretty cool option. But, I
just wanted to follow up on this comment that you made
below:-- it will also block inline
scripts and style elements--
Are you
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Nick Gleason n.glea...@citysoft.com wrote:
Pete,
Much appreciated. I guess where I'm being a bit of a dunce is that in your
example, if a malicious url.query variable was passed in by a hacker,
wouldn't the display only be available on that single request?
will it all depends on several factors. how many forms do you have within
your site that result in content being inserted into the database and then
displayed on the page. If your CMS is the only place this happens and this
is password protected then you can afford to be more flexible about what
Dave, this is an interesting idea which we haven't pursued yet. I don't
have a clear sense of how the server configuration would work here. Would
you have two separate db servers (one for authored content and one for
published content) that would sync up? Or would you have an authoring
On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Nick Gleason n.glea...@citysoft.comwrote:
Hi guys,
Following up on this thread I have a related question - what are some
examples of XSS scenarios other than comments and forum posts.
Any other prominent risk scenarios for XSS?
There are a lot of
Pete,
Much appreciated. I guess where I'm being a bit of a dunce is that in your
example, if a malicious url.query variable was passed in by a hacker,
wouldn't the display only be available on that single request? And if I
come to the same search form 2 minutes later and do a normal search,
You could manage the web.config ip filter via cf.
You can also have the option to disable 2 factor authentication for a
specific computer for 30 days which is a common option, using either a
cookie or ip logging.
Russ Michaels
www.michaels.me.uk
cfmldeveloper.com
cflive.net
cfsearch.com
On 3 Mar
Hi Russ,
This is very interesting. In this case, we limit failed logins to a fairly
small number before the login is disabled so in theory that would prevent
dictionary style attacks, even against fairly weak logins. If you think
that is flawed, let me know.
We've discussed adding an IP
Nick you are correct, strictly speaking. That simple example is harmless,
it runs only one time and is 'visible' only to the single client. Consider
what happens if the payload that is executed is nowhere nearly as benign.
At that point, code of some kind is being executed on your server that
To clarify, I was oversimplifying above when I said 'code is being executed
on your server'. Pete's script example would of course need to link up
with some other vulnerability for that to happen (i.e. an unpatched exploit
of some kind).
Since you can't predict such things, you minimize the
:29 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Best practices for xss security in CMS?
I'm very interested in your feedback on best practices when 1) trying
to mitigate risk of XSS and other hacks while 2) providing CMS
functionality that includes a web editor that clients use to publish web
pages
, 2014 9:39 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Best practices for xss security in CMS?
with any decent editor including CKeditor and tinyMCE, you can specify down
to a granular level which html tags and attributes are allowed/not allowed,
just check the docs and there should be a config file somewhere
...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 11:10 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Best practices for xss security in CMS?
Sorry, I only read as far as disabling Javascript and was commenting on
that. The fact remains that anything done *clientside* is not reliable. It
seems we're not disagreeing
practices for xss security in CMS?
That's a bit narrow-sighted.
Hackers don't disable JS to bypass clientside pre-validation, they just post
the form directly. Often the server code is not coded in such a way to be
aware how a post is made (via a legit form, or just by a POST request).
*Always
-Original Message-
From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 11:58 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Best practices for xss security in CMS?
tsk, not reading properly before replying is very naughty, I will set
Charlie Arehart on you.
I am quite confident
I'm very interested in your feedback on best practices when 1) trying to
mitigate risk of XSS and other hacks while 2) providing CMS functionality
that includes a web editor that clients use to publish web pages.
For example, there are many tags like style, iframe, and embed
with any decent editor including CKeditor and tinyMCE, you can specify down
to a granular level which html tags and attributes are allowed/not allowed,
just check the docs and there should be a config file somewhere in your CMS
that instantiates the editor where you can modify these settings.
So
can specify down
to a granular level which html tags and attributes are allowed/not allowed,
just check the docs and there should be a config file somewhere in your CMS
that instantiates the editor where you can modify these settings.
So it is pretty easy to do as you need.
It is also a good
although these days if a user has javascript disabled they wont be able to
use the cms at all as it is a requirement for the editor and all the AJAXy
stuff.
but what you can do, is apply filtering to all form fields at a global
level, so any form submission any page will have anything dodgy
has javascript disabled they wont be able to
use the cms at all as it is a requirement for the editor and all the AJAXy
stuff.
but what you can do, is apply filtering to all form fields at a global
level, so any form submission any page will have anything dodgy removed.
I believe FuseGuard
, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote:
although these days if a user has javascript disabled they wont be able
to
use the cms at all as it is a requirement for the editor and all the
AJAXy
stuff.
but what you can do, is apply filtering to all form fields at a global
level, so any form
be able
to
use the cms at all as it is a requirement for the editor and all the
AJAXy
stuff.
but what you can do, is apply filtering to all form fields at a global
level, so any form submission any page will have anything dodgy
removed.
I believe FuseGuard will do this for you
...@michaels.me.uk wrote:
although these days if a user has javascript disabled they wont be
able
to
use the cms at all as it is a requirement for the editor and all the
AJAXy
stuff.
but what you can do, is apply filtering to all form fields at a
global
level, so any
Gleason n.glea...@citysoft.comwrote:
Hi All,
I'm very interested in your feedback on best practices when 1) trying to
mitigate risk of XSS and other hacks while 2) providing CMS functionality
that includes a web editor that clients use to publish web pages.
For example, there are many tags like
Thanks very much Pete.
We have implemented Portcullis among other things and that will also block
tags like the ones mentioned. I think that may be similar to the ones that
you mention. I expect that Fuseguard has something similar.
I guess my follow up question may have to be with what
Hi All,
I'm very interested in your feedback on best practices when 1) trying to
mitigate risk of XSS and other hacks while 2) providing CMS functionality
that includes a web editor that clients use to publish web pages.
For example, there are many tags like style, iframe, and embed
Why would I choose a CF Framework over a CF CMS system? I have no real=0A=
experience with either, other than installing both and playing around.=0A=
If a CF CMS system such as Mura speck already include a framework such=0A=
as Coldbox, Model-glue FW/1. why not just go for a Mura type system? I
CMS = A system where pages can be loaded with data from a database and the
user usually has direct control over the actual page contents and
formatting. Usually is good when you have lots of users each wanting their
own page.
Frameworks = A set of rules how files are set up and work together
Why would I choose a CF Framework over a CF CMS system?
I'm affraid you are comparing apples and oranges.
You would use a CF framework to develop a CMS system but you wouldn't have to
develop anything if you use a CMS system
Right! That's my question, since a CMS system already has a form of framework
built inside, there's no need for a Framework. Why not just always use a CMS
and custimze to your heart's content?
Why would I choose a CF Framework over a CF CMS system?
I'm affraid you are comparing apples
Right! That's my question, since a CMS system already has a form of
framework built inside, there's no need for a Framework. Why not just
always use a CMS and custimze to your heart's content?
There isn't always a framework built into it (or if there is one, it's been
set up specifically
Right! That's my question, since a CMS system already has a form of
framework built inside, there's no
need for a Framework. Why not just always use a CMS and custimze to your
heart's content?
The C in CMS stands for Content. If you're building a site that's
all (or perhaps mostly
To answer your question, the major difference between customizing a CMS versus
incorporating your content management within a framework, IMHO, comes *after*
the site is built. That said, I think its often far easier to do the former
than the latter, as most CMS systems arent documented
Sorry, first paragraph should read its often far easier to do the latter than
the former. My bad.
On Dec 5, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Jon Clausen jon_clau...@silowebworks.com wrote:
To answer your question, the major difference between customizing a CMS
versus incorporating your content
The real answer is it depends. What's the site for? Is, as someone
else mentioned, a primarily content site? How closely does it fit with
the model the CMS provides? etc.
As for ecommerce, don't build your own unless you've used several others
already and have a very specific reason
it designed to work with the CMS.
Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Phillip Vector
vec...@mostdeadlygame.comwrote:
Right! That's my question, since a CMS system already has a form
common application problems, for
example ColdBox provides the ability to provide AOP and ContentBox uses
this feature of the framework heavily. But the framework was not as you put
it designed to work with the CMS.
Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+: http
that the CMS is now coupled
to using that framework only.
A CMS is an Application, that can be built using a framework or it can be
built without a framework.
Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013
: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 7:42 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Client wants CMS that functions similar to Joomla, for example
Thanks, David...
Yes, the live content editors are very attractive. Several
of the CSM's that I reviewed offer that option. It's very appealing.
And it certainly is a balancing
-talk
Subject: RE: Client wants CMS that functions similar to Joomla, for example
Thanks, David...
Yes, the live content editors are very attractive. Several
of the CSM's that I reviewed offer that option. It's very appealing.
And it certainly is a balancing-act, trying to provide desired
Yes, that's true, Scott.
-Original Message-
From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:51 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Client wants CMS that functions similar to Joomla, for example
For a 'title' you may not want them to be able to format
Is this always the case with editors that provide style control?
Since the editor enters its own tags and styles inline (boo),
would this mean that all styling has to come from within the
CKEditor and its styles would override my stylesheets?
You can customize the style list shown to the
Thanks, Dave.
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:09 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Client wants CMS that functions similar to Joomla, for example
Is this always the case with editors that provide style control?
Since
Rick,
As a developer who has recently become involved with CMS environments, let me
assure you that the introduction of a CMS by no means indicates that a
developer is no longer required. I actually work full time supporting a number
of web sites that all run from a CF based CMS and recently
Rick,
Allow me to second this excellent comment. CMS is just the next level for
an active content based or content critical website. Both expense and
development tend to go up rather than down or level off.
-Mark
Mark Kruger - CFG
CF Webtools
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
O
I've spent about 70% of my time over the last 5 years developing in PHP,
including developing a customized installation of Joomla for a radio station
client that included live streaming and audio archives. I've also rolled a
customized CMS through the PHP framework Kohana. I, for one am happy
Thanks, Jon and everyone for your feedback.
I've look at the various pre-rolled CMS offerings
and have found them to be serious overkill for all my clients.
I've always created my own CMS for each website I created
to insure that clients were comfortable with them. Mostly,
I just provide
!
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Rick Faircloth r...@whitestonemedia.comwrote:
Thanks, Jon and everyone for your feedback.
I've look at the various pre-rolled CMS offerings
and have found them to be serious overkill for all my clients.
I've always created my own CMS for each website I created
Rick,
Most full-blown CMS solutions allow the clients to add pages to a site whenever
desired, they simply select the underlying template (that you develop and
provide) for that particular page and go to town creating the content and
adding web parts into the areas that you have defined
if you just want simple then try Wordpress as I mentioned before, anyone
should be able to use that. the CF equivalent would be mangoblog. Both
these apps are not just for blogs, they allow you to create pages and have
a basic CMS and use plugins.
Most full blown CMS systems you can turn off all
that they end up making a mess of a site.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: David Phelan [mailto:dphe...@emerginghealthit.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 3:44 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Client wants CMS that functions similar to Joomla, for example
Rick,
Most full-blown CMS solutions allow
Hi, guys...
Just need some recommendations from some of you who have been
down this road before.
I have a client that is asking for what amounts to absolute control
over their site through a CMS. Among a few others they metioned,
Joomla was brought up.
I'm checking them out myself, but wanted
who have been
down this road before.
I have a client that is asking for what amounts to absolute control
over their site through a CMS. Among a few others they metioned,
Joomla was brought up.
I'm checking them out myself, but wanted to cut to the chase based
on experience from those who have
a custom CMS each time and
focus on developing the uniqueness of your client's services.
If you're doing e-commerce, check out Slatwall as well:
http://www.getslatwall.com/
I have not personally used Joomla in a couple years but their upgrade
policies were terrible at the time. Their security isn't
another (free) open source CFML CMS for your consideration
Farcry CMS
http://www.farcrycore.org/
CMSs do not replace a programmer - they are for managing content.
Most will have a WYSIWYG editor so they can do formatting via a tool bar.
If customisation is required, you will most likely
while the CF CMS solutions are good, esp Mura, they lack the plugins and
themes and support that exists for the likes of Joomla. Mura seems to be
the most popular CMS in CF land these days, but if you get stuck the chance
of getting any help on the mura forums is almost non existent in my
I hope someone with knowledge of farcry CMS sees this question
I am new to farcry and looking at some existing code. I have a
question on friendly URL. At what time of the application do the
actual URL gets parsed to friendly URL.
Suppose I have a href link as
a href=www.example.com?objectid
.
-Jake
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:30 PM, fun and learning
funandlrnn...@gmail.comwrote:
I hope someone with knowledge of farcry CMS sees this question
I am new to farcry and looking at some existing code. I have a
question on friendly URL. At what time of the application do the
actual URL
Jake, Thanks for answering. I already posted in the facry google groups 4 hours
back, and the moderators still did not approve my question, so thought I'd take
a chance here
I already set the apache mod_Rewrite conditions. My question was more when the
objectid is parsed to friendly URL. The
I think the table is farFU. I know there's a CFC with that name so it
should have been scaffolded or whatever by default.
Each object can have multiple friendly URLs (see the SEO tab for pretty
much anything in the Site tab in the admin).
It's been a while since I messed with this stuff.
Yes you are right. go.cfm is using URL.path where as farcry 6 is using furl
variable. I am using farcry 6. I have read through the docs, and its not
mentioned clearly anywhere about the friendlyURL. Can you tell me if my
understanding is correct below:
1) User requests a page with url like
Just wondering if Adobe and Cisco.com run on same CMS?
This made me think about it
http://cisco.com/go/ace
http://adobe.com/go/coldfusion
Thx rgds,
Pradeep Viswanathan R
DISCLAIMER:
This e-mail message including any of its attachments is intended solely for
the addressee(s) and may
I think it's just that go is a common verb.
andy
-Original Message-
From: IT (Pradeep Viswanathan) [mailto:prade...@emiratesnbd.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:35 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: [OT] Adobe.com / Cisco.com - Same CMS ?
Just wondering if Adobe and Cisco.com run
Ditto. You can roll this yourself too pretty easily. Don't need a full
CMS, just a URL rewrite.
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:47 AM, andy matthews li...@commadelimited.com wrote:
I think it's just that go is a common verb.
andy
-Original Message-
From: IT (Pradeep Viswanathan
This ended up so simple, LOL :)
Thx rgds,
Pradeep Viswanathan R
-Original Message-
From: Raymond Camden [mailto:raymondcam...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:59 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: [OT] Adobe.com / Cisco.com - Same CMS ?
Ditto. You can roll this yourself too
We have a web site that was built using Mura CMS by a designer and he is no
longer with the company. We are looking for a Consultant that is familiar with
Mura to have a look at our system.
Please contact me offline.
Thanks,
Dave Hatz
dave_h...@hotmail.com
I'm hoping that another Mura CMS user sees this and can point me in the
right direction. I've done a lot of things attempting to solve this issue,
but none have had any affect.
*The Issue*
When using Mura's File Manager to upload an image, the image is resized
(scaled), and an additional
, then
I'll explain how you can do this.
Kind regards,
Guust Nieuwenhuis
On 15 Aug 2011, at 21:18, Matt Quackenbush wrote:
I'm hoping that another Mura CMS user sees this and can point me in the
right direction. I've done a lot of things attempting to solve this issue,
but none have had any
CMS user sees this and can point me in the
right direction. I've done a lot of things attempting to solve this
issue,
but none have had any affect.
*The Issue*
When using Mura's File Manager to upload an image, the image is resized
(scaled), and an additional thumbnail is created
Quackenbush wrote:
I'm hoping that another Mura CMS user sees this and can point me in the
right direction. I've done a lot of things attempting to solve this
issue,
but none have had any affect.
*The Issue*
When using Mura's File Manager to upload an image, the image is resized
Not sure if this is helpful or not :)
You might look and see if this is a feature of CKFinder - though not
sure if the file manage in Mura CMS is CKFinder or other code - as there
seems to be some file upload ajax code as well.
FROM: http://cksource.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10t=13149
, at 21:18, Matt Quackenbush wrote:
I'm hoping that another Mura CMS user sees this and can point me in the
right direction. I've done a lot of things attempting to solve this
issue,
but none have had any affect.
*The Issue*
When using Mura's File Manager to upload an image
and see if this is a feature of CKFinder - though not
sure if the file manage in Mura CMS is CKFinder or other code - as there
seems to be some file upload ajax code as well.
FROM: http://cksource.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10t=13149
CKFinder resizes uploaded images automatically if they exceed
Matt-
Check out the CKFinder developer docs for ColdFusion config and images ...
http://docs.cksource.com/CKFinder_2.x/Developers_Guide/ColdFusion/Configuration/Images
/S
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
Well, the CKE settings were worth a shot, but they have no affect on the
File Manager uploads. To be clear, I added the following to my CKE config
file:
config.images.maxWidth = 1600;
config.images.maxHeight = 1200;
config.images.quality = 80;
I then reloaded the application. Test upload;
Aa an FYI, I think the settings for CKEditor and CKFinder are separate
this is on or about line 60 of the CKFinder config.cfm @
/tasks/widgets/ckfinder/ in your Mura root.
/*
* set the maximum size of uploaded images
* if uploaded image is larger, it gets scaled down
* Set to 0 to
Thanks /S (that's a cool-ass name!). I should have known that, but for some
reason it did not click. Thanks for pointing that out. I will take a peek
at it as soon as I am able to get to it and report back. :-)
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 4:34 PM, ssl...@rubbergumball.net wrote:
Aa an FYI, I
/S, you Sir (or is it Ma'am?) are my hero! The settings in
/tasks/widgets/ckfinder/config.cfm are indeed the correct ones.
Now to find out how to keep the settings from being overwritten on a Mura
update! Unlike the CKE config, I am not seeing any checks for an {SiteID}
or {theme} level config
First, sorry for the SOT
The current version of MURA does not have a 'forgot password' feature.
It only gives the user a 'reset'
All the emails/passwords are encrypted in the database
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to add a traditional 'forgot password'
feature that will query the db and
Correction: it appears that Mura hashes the info in the database
First, sorry for the SOT
The current version of MURA does not have a 'forgot password' feature.
It only gives the user a 'reset'
All the emails/passwords are encrypted in the database
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to add
...@aceligent.com]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:28 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: SOT - adding password forgot function to Mura CMS
First, sorry for the SOT
The current version of MURA does not have a 'forgot password' feature.
It only gives the user a 'reset'
All the emails/passwords are encrypted
The current version of MURA does not have a 'forgot password' feature.
It only gives the user a 'reset'
All the emails/passwords are encrypted in the database
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to add a traditional 'forgot password'
feature that will query the db and return the info
I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
I think Mura is free.
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:37 AM, webmas...@pegweb.com wrote:
I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?
~|
Farcry: http://www.farcrycore.org/
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:37 AM, webmas...@pegweb.com wrote:
I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?
Myra
FarCry
Boomsocket
Check riaforge as well...
On Jan 13, 2011, at 8:37 AM, webmas...@pegweb.com wrote:
I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?
http://www.getmura.com
http://www.farcrycore.org
http://www.riaforge.org/index.cfm?event=page.search#cms_catid=1
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:37 AM, webmas...@pegweb.com wrote:
I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions
around May or so) will have an API.
Here at Mura we are hoping to build a good relationship with them in hopes
to building a Mura plugin to their e-commerce solution.
-Pat
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Matthew Lesko m.le...@verizon.net wrote:
I have ColdFusion CMS. I'm looking for an e
I'm using a content management system that I really like, but any CF code that
is stored in the CMS database - it's SQL - is not executed at run time. Only CF
code in static files is executed. Is there any way to get code stored in the
database to be executed
that is stored in the CMS database - it's SQL - is not executed at run time.
Only CF code in static files is executed. Is there any way to get code
stored in the database to be executed?
~|
Want to reach the ColdFusion community
CFML stored in a database is actually not CFML at all. It's text. Pure and
simple.
Now then, there are ways to do what you're trying to do, but they're not
necessarily very performant (depending on what and how much you're trying to
do). Look into evaluate(). The general idea is something
John's solution is also valid, to be sure. And if you're doing a lot of
this type of thing, it would absolutely be the most performant (assuming the
write would be done only when the db is posted/updated).
~|
Want to reach the
Don't forget you can also write it to the VFS in CF9. One could easily
make a UDF called render() that would do it for you.
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote:
John's solution is also valid, to be sure. And if you're doing a lot of
this type of
Of course, to use the VFS for this you would also need to create a
mapping for it so the cfinclude can work. THen again, that is also
pretty trivial in CF9.
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Raymond Camden rcam...@gmail.com wrote:
Don't forget you can also write it to the VFS in CF9. One could
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