life, which is that of GIVING.
I'll end this post with this...
"Since when are you less by giving?"
Regards,
Elmer
- Original Message -----
From: "nrf"
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: Jeff Doyle's official response re: lab rats [7:45001]
>
Like I said, things might be fine for guys like us who have stable jobs and
good prospects. But again, for those who might not be in that kind of a
position whose financial position is getting a bit precarious and therefore
need to find decent work, it doesn't help when you have guys going around
So far paying the bills hasn't been a problem. I tend to stick with the
companies that have good reputations for the way they treat their employees.
True, at some point in the future things will change but I'll deal with that
when it happens.
""nrf"" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EM
True, but in the short-run, it does the program and anybody who pursues it
no favors. I think I can distill your arguement to basically, "...in the
long run, the quality of the CCIE program will inevitably "out"'. My
response is, like the economist John Maynard Keynes famously said: "...in
the l
At 11:23 AM -0400 5/25/02, Kevin Cullimore wrote:
>I was also under the impression that you can't win,. since people will
>invariably oversimplify on the most immediately available data points and
>not be swayed from the simplest possible confusion. Upon reconsideration,
>maybe it's possible to si
If the HR people (or hiring manager) are that uninformed, as a CCIE, it
would not be a place I would want to work. People tend to flock to places
that they are valued the most. A company who doesn't understand the value
that a CCIE a brings to the table is not one that I would waste my precious
in.
- Original Message -
From: "Howard C. Berkowitz"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Jeff Doyle's official response re: lab rats [7:45001]
> At 3:34 AM -0400 5/25/02, Kevin Cullimore wrote:
> >INS. Gobbled up by lucent during the somewhat less
Thank you for asking for Mr. Doyle's input. His sentiments encourage me and
inspire me to press on and learn as much as I can. The line "If the
engineer is smart and aggressive, it is easy enough to team him or her up
with a mentor to add the practical experience," is precisely what I needed
to
ithout
the
> > > benefit of on-the-job experience, The attitude of employers is
> > all-too-often
> > > to go with the experienced competent individual (all else being equal),
> > > since they can immediately apply their experience to scenarios they
have
> > > encoun
At 3:34 AM -0400 5/25/02, Kevin Cullimore wrote:
>INS. Gobbled up by lucent during the somewhat less-than-rational corporate
>atmosphere that reigned supreme not so long ago. I did not mean to imply
>that he jumped ship from one to another, merely that he went from an
>organization most directly i
itive endeavors.
- Original Message -
From: "Schwantz"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: Jeff Doyle's official response re: lab rats [7:45001]
> What employer change are you talking about ? I believe Jeff Doyle was
never
> a Cisco employee.
>
> Schwantz
And that's also not to say that experience is always
more important than everything else, because it is not. I believe that it's
important to present an entire suite of qualifications to an employer -
experience, certs, education, etc.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
equal),
> since they can immediately apply their experience to scenarios they have
> encountered before, scenarios that would take far too long and consume far
> too much in the way of financial equipment to stumble across in a lab
> setting.
>
>
>
> - Original Message --
, May 24, 2002 9:55 PM
Subject: Jeff Doyle's official response re: lab rats [7:45001]
> Dear fellow professionals,
> In fear of "taking a person's words and using them out of context",
> I decided to ask Mr. Doyle himself. He was kind enough to respond
> to my e-mail, a
You say that guys like this have no connection to me. Boy, I wish that were
true. If it were, I really would be able to mind my own business.
Let's presume that I am a CCIE (I may or may not be). The connection is
simply this. HR people and other people in charge of hiring will read or
hear c
Why does it always have to be a contest of who's is biggest? If this guy
thinks he can pass the lab then by all means take the class and give the lab
a shot. I'm sure Cisco would be happy to collect the money from him each
time he takes it. I guess what I'm trying to say here is take care of yo
That's an excellent way to sum it up. Too much has been written about the
value (or non-value) of the CCIE, or any cert for that matter. What
everybody should instead be aiming for is real knowledge. If a cert helps
you acquire this knowledge, then so be it. But the cert is by no means the
end
Dear fellow professionals,
In fear of "taking a person's words and using them out of context",
I decided to ask Mr. Doyle himself. He was kind enough to respond
to my e-mail, and I'm posting this with the hope of encouraging both
"lab rats" and gurus alike to aim for knowledge, not only certs,
and
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