Yep,wrap code that has side effects, prevent it to be evaluated in STM
transaction.
2013/5/30 Maik Schünemann maikschuenem...@gmail.com
I think It stops other code to wrap around the code with the explicit io!
call.
Its declarative way of saying: I am doing io! DONT USE me inside a dosync.
Would an alternate approach be to write a Clojure interpreter in RPython
and have the PyPy toolchain create everything for you? That way you get an
interpreter with a tracing JIT for free, plus it looks like they've got STM
working now. It seems like that could save a lot of work. Am I
This is a very interesting project. I look forward to following its
development.
I did a presentation[1] on the implementation of the kibit[2] rule system a
few weeks ago which you might find interesting since it's using core.logic
as well.
[1]
2013/5/30 Josh Kamau joshnet2...@gmail.com
Whats the point of using io! inside dosync if all it does is make an
exception to be thrown?
The point is to mark side-effecting code so that you can't accidentally use
it in a transaction.
--
MK
http://github.com/michaelklishin
Great resource!
I hope you don't mind if I steal ideas from it :)
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Jonas jonas.enl...@gmail.com wrote:
This is a very interesting project. I look forward to following its
development.
I did a presentation[1] on the implementation of the kibit[2] rule system
Do any of you ever use io! ? I've never used it, but could see using it if
I had a transaction-heavy application.
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Michael Klishin
michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote:
2013/5/30 Josh Kamau joshnet2...@gmail.com
Whats the point of using io! inside dosync if all
PS: I've created an Emacs major-mode for
wisp: https://github.com/krisajenkins/wisp-mode
On Monday, 27 May 2013 11:09:56 UTC+1, Kris Jenkins wrote:
I've played around with it a fair bit and it's got promise. Despite
appearances, it's not really a Clojure - as David says it's missing a lot
Thanks guys. Now i understand its for marking functions containing io so
that they blow up if they are used inside transactions. I am still
learning clojure and i have decided to take some time to understand every
function in the core API.
Josh.
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Alex Baranosky
+1 for both features. Nelson thanks for the plugin, I have been using it on
my projects.
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:11:17 AM UTC+5:30, tbc++ wrote:
+1 for both features, it really helps for major version upgrades on large
projects.
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:35 PM, Brian Tatnall
According to this article, Clojure does not yet have this facility:
http://java.dzone.com/articles/promises-and-futures-clojure
This is something that is being worked on and discussed, though:
http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Promises
Can you not use
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/LinkedBlockingQueue.html?
That will provide the blocking element.
To execute N (i.e. 10 in your example) use a
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/ThreadPoolExecutor.html.
The 'glue'
Maybe an easy solution: wrap the first future in another future that
blocking-derefs, then performs your extra computation? Do an extra
'realized?' check for the optimization you mention. That would still
consume threads in the case that it's not realized, but I think it gets you
what you want.
by the second future, I mean an instance of
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/Future.html ,
which just has to conform to the interface, and doesn't actually have to
execute on a different thread. Clojure's 'future' function returns an
instance of one of these that uses
I've been using it as well. so +1
cheers,
Bruce
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Murtaza Husain
murtaza.hus...@sevenolives.com wrote:
+1 for both features. Nelson thanks for the plugin, I have been using it on
my projects.
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:11:17 AM UTC+5:30, tbc++ wrote:
+1
2013/5/30 Dax Fohl dax.f...@gmail.com
Am I missing something? What are the downsides of this approach?
is RPython garbage collected? Key ideas in Clojure pretty much assume
memory management is not something you
have to worry about.
What about concurrency primitives? Clojure builds its
I've got no idea about RPython itself, but the PyPy toolchain takes an
interpreter for any language specified in RPython, and generates a native
interpreter for that language, complete with JIT, garbage collection, etc.
(Here's an example
Thanks for posting the link. I'll have to make sure to follow an ANN guide
instead of memory next time.
On May 29, 2013 11:40 PM, Michał Marczyk michal.marc...@gmail.com wrote:
https://github.com/xeqi/peridot
On 30 May 2013 06:13, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I just stumbled upon this:
http://clojurewest.org/news/2013/5/29/clojurewest-2013-videos-1.html
but I have a question! Can anyone clarify (maybe Alex?) what the dates
right next to the presentation topic mean? Are they when the talk was
given or when the talk will be released on
Hi,
is there an already defined query language for EDN as we have for JASON? Is
there an already defined data modeling language for EDN as we have for
jason?
Does someone working on it? Do Datomic/Datalogic have something similar to
be used/adapted?
Thanks so much
Mimmo
--
--
You
On May 30, 2013 4:12 AM, Colin Yates colin.ya...@gmail.com wrote:
; the following would need to reify itself to be a Runnable, not got that
far yet :)
(defn execute [job result-queue] (let [result (job)] (.put result-queue
result)))
A no-args fn is both a perfectly good Callable and a
No, you're not missing something. In the past I've turned down the idea of
using RPython due to the lack of threading support. But in the past year
major, major headway has been made (as you mentioned) so perhaps RPython
isn't as crazy of an idea after all.
As far as a GC goes, yes, RPython can
On Thu, 30 May 2013, Jim - FooBar(); wrote:
Hi all,
I just stumbled upon this:
http://clojurewest.org/news/2013/5/29/clojurewest-2013-videos-1.html
but I have a question! Can anyone clarify (maybe Alex?) what the dates
right next to the presentation topic mean? Are they when the talk was
I just thought about this recently, but does the value-oriented nature of
clojure mostly void the need for a cycles-aware GC? It seems like you
won't ever have cycles without identities, or pointers (java references).
Maybe this would be a problem only when you need identities, ie deftype or
So what do you see as the advantage in going the clojure-metal path? Is it
that RPython is such a pain to debug that it ends up not being worth it in
the end? Is the tradeoff essentially being able to do things exactly how
you want in LLVM versus having to put up with warts that might not
Nice.
On 30 May 2013 12:57, John D. Hume duelin.mark...@gmail.com wrote:
On May 30, 2013 4:12 AM, Colin Yates colin.ya...@gmail.com wrote:
; the following would need to reify itself to be a Runnable, not got
that far yet :)
(defn execute [job result-queue] (let [result (job)] (.put
Okay... I wrote my own:
https://github.com/projectplugh/plugh/blob/master/src/plugh/util/misc.clj#L51
One can register for on-done and on-fail. I'll work on adding fail-fast and
also map (so one can transform the future and execute code when the
transformed future has been
On 30/05/13 13:17, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2013, Jim - FooBar(); wrote:
Hi all,
I just stumbled upon this:
http://clojurewest.org/news/2013/5/29/clojurewest-2013-videos-1.html
but I have a question! Can anyone clarify (maybe Alex?) what the
dates right next to the
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:21:36 PM UTC+2, Gary Trakhman wrote:
I just thought about this recently, but does the value-oriented nature of
clojure mostly void the need for a cycles-aware GC? It seems like you
won't ever have cycles without identities, or pointers (java references).
(def my-ref (ref 1))
(defn update-my-ref
[new-value]
(dosync
(alter my-ref #(+ % new-value))
(ref-history-count my-ref)))
Hi guys ;
I am trying to understand (ref-history-count ref) . I thought it counts the
number of old values in the ref. But in all my tests, its always
Take a look at the 11 minute diatomic query video:
http://www.datomic.com/videos.html#query
That may be what you're looking for, I believe it can work with local
Clojure data sets (e.g. eval'ed EDN) without any connection to a Datomic
database.
Marc
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Mimmo
thanks Marc. I'll take a look at it
Obviously I intended json, non jason..
mimmo
On May 30, 2013, at 4:05 PM, Marc Limotte wrote:
Take a look at the 11 minute diatomic query video:
http://www.datomic.com/videos.html#query
That may be what you're looking for, I believe it can work with
At first glance, those issues seem like they could be mitigated, so I think
I see room here for some real-time ref-counted clojure. I imagine it'd
still have a lot of allocations so it wouldn't be that great for low-memory
systems.
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Jean Niklas L'orange
There are two things I see that reduce the viability of ref-count GCs with
Clojure:
a) Clojure is insanely alloc heavy. Look at the source of the data
structures, merging two hash-maps (for instance) requires about 2-3
allocations per assoc, per kv in the merged map:
(merge map1 map2)
allocs =
ref-count only increment when one of the following occurs:
* min-history 0
* ref-read-faults 0 current-ref-history-count max-history-count.
;; ref-count increment because min-history 0
(let [r (ref 1 :min-history 1)
f1 (future (dosync (Thread/sleep 1000)
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Josh Kamau joshnet2...@gmail.com wrote:
I am trying to understand (ref-history-count ref) . I thought it counts
the number of old values in the ref. But in all my tests, its always
returning zero. How is it used?
In clojure's STM, history is created only
Yes, it's a half-baked idea, but I'm curious if it might be worth an
experiment.
re: a) yea, I suspected this could get pretty bad, and your comment about
having to mutate counts while traversing it definitely amplifies the effect
of it.
b) real-time is about latency and jitter and such, if
Hello, Colin,
I suspected I should turn to existing Java concurrency constructs. Thank
you very much for your response, and this is what I'm going to do. I was
just hoping there's some Clojure idiomatic way to solve this, using agents,
futures, promises, refs, and other Clojure stuff. For
Thank you. I've found it yesterday, too; just in time :)
On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:42:58 AM UTC+4, Ben Mabey wrote:
On Tue May 28 02:40:33 2013, Dmitry Groshev wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough in my proposal.
I've mentioned clojurecheck [1] in it and the possibility of extending
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Alex Baranosky
alexander.barano...@gmail.com wrote:
Do any of you ever use io! ? I've never used it, but could see using it if
I had a transaction-heavy application.
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Michael Klishin
michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote:
The
What if you really want the 'bad' effects on retries? We need io! versions
and non-io! versions of side-effect functions :-)
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.comwrote:
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Alex Baranosky
alexander.barano...@gmail.com wrote:
Do
Thanks guys. I have been able to get the ref-history-count greater than 0
by increasing ref-min-history to something greater than 0 and by using long
(using Thread/sleep) running transactions.
Now i get it
Josh
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Neale Swinnerton ne...@isismanor.comwrote:
On
Well, more seriously, I would be against any facility that prevents me from
doing something potentially useful that I might want to do. Sprinkling
potential problem spots with io! might make more sense in an application
than a library.
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Gary Trakhman
On Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:27:34 UTC+5:30, Plinio Balduino wrote:
Hi there
I'm playing with Clojure CLR (good job, guys) and I miss something like
Leiningen. I quickly saw Kumar's lein-clr, but I don't know if it could be
used in a production environment (or explaining better, in a dev
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to accomplish in a larger context,
but perhaps you're looking for something like this?
(delay (deref (future (and (Thread/sleep 2000) (+ 1 2)
... or maybe you want just `delay`
Cheers,
Paul
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 6:09:02 AM UTC-7, David Pollak
*Dear Associate,*
*Please check the below requirement and advise us the right consultant’s
along with Rate, Availability, Contact Details, Current Location Visa
Status.*
*It’s an immediate requirement please sent me the suitable resumes ASAP.
Please make sure the candidate has all the required
You might find this work in progress interesting then:
http://github.com/clojure/core.async
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:46 PM, David Pollak feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com
wrote:
Paul,
Thanks... but I want the opposite of delay.
Basically, I do not want to consume a thread waiting for a
Oh! I see, you want promises with callbacks (which you want to be futures).
Once a promise is delivered, you want to kick off a future (in Clojure,
futures consume a thread from the thread pool to do their work).
It's been discussed before:
Hi! I'm an interested spectator but understand very little :) I wonder if
anyone would take a moment to explain?
E.g. I can't see why reading from a data structure should ever lead to a
change in the refcounts.
A
On Thursday, 30 May 2013 15:56:42 UTC+1, tbc++ wrote:
There are two things I
Paul,
Thanks... but I want the opposite of delay.
Basically, I do not want to consume a thread waiting for a Future to be
satisfied. I want to continue a computation on a different thread once the
Future/Promise is satisfied. Why?
Think of a web app that's serving either a long poll or a web
Well, ref-counting in C++ is used by something like smart-pointers, the
implementation uses operator overloading to overload the pointer
dereference operator *, and it manages an internal pointer to the actual
value. Instantiating a smart-pointer increases the count for that object,
and once that
Hi everyone,
I've re-arranged some code in a project of mine and it seems I've
introduced cyclic dependencies...It doesn't make sense though! I get the
following message:
= (load-file src/Clondie24/games/chess.clj)
Exception Cyclic load dependency: [ /Clondie24/lib/core
Wait... maybe I do :) Perhaps I was thinking that you needn't increment
the refcount of a node when you're just looking at it, but only if you're
going to return it or attach it to something else... Sorry to know so
little...
On Thursday, 30 May 2013 21:00:59 UTC+1, atucker wrote:
Hi!
I might have missed some details about the implementation of smart pointers
there, (whoops, I guess I failed the C++ interview), but I think it's got
the basic idea.
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 4:27 PM, atucker agjf.tuc...@gmail.com wrote:
Wait... maybe I do :) Perhaps I was thinking that you
Hi,
I'm trying to parse a binary file with the help of gloss. My problem
is, the data is in a format that gloss seeminglydoesn't deal with at all.
The file start with a plaintext header, followed by some binary data,
which may be compressed in various formats. What I'm trying to
do is parse the
Thanks for this! I do see now that it's probably a little trickier than I
first thought :) Still, like you, I am left with the feeling it might be
possible to do well...
On Thursday, 30 May 2013 21:25:27 UTC+1, Gary Trakhman wrote:
Well, ref-counting in C++ is used by something like
What's up with the 3rd result here?
user= (symbol? +)
false
user= (symbol? clojure.core/+)
false
user= (symbol? (first `(,+ 5)))
true
user= (first `(,+ 5))
clojure.core/+
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Commas are whitespace in Clojure. If you are looking for the unquote
operator, it is ~.
user= (first `(~+ 5))
#core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@6f6827b5
peace, Chris
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Brian Craft craft.br...@gmail.com wrote:
What's up with the 3rd result here?
user= (symbol?
looks like you found it:
https://github.com/jimpil/Clondie24/commit/16f92fccc0c65d3c250b7a880649b940f792ea92
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:25 PM, Jim - FooBar(); jimpil1...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi everyone,
I've re-arranged some code in a project of mine and it seems I've
introduced cyclic
ah, thanks.
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:48:00 PM UTC-7, cjeris wrote:
Commas are whitespace in Clojure. If you are looking for the unquote
operator, it is ~.
user= (first `(~+ 5))
#core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@6f6827b5
peace, Chris
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Brian Craft
hehe :)
yep, I found it...some stupid class files had been left along with the
java source files and they were interfering with the proper class files
(under target/classes) since they were both under the classpath!!! I
felt very stupid for having done this and that's why I didn't post back
I posted to make sure others reading it know not to start looking for a
solution, since it was found - so saving their time. Also, I was sure you
were going to post it as soon as you had the time (for the same reason, at
least). I didn't mean to call you out or anything; I see making
I'm just catching up on this discussion. I think that, regardless of
whether any one coder uses them, debuggers are useful to a large subset of
people. Even though Clojure likes us to be immutable, there are often times
where we would like to debug the mutable parts of our code with something
for a long time haskell did not have a debugger. that sucked, imho.
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Two more things:
1) printing is often not a viable option for lazily eval-ed sequences or
async processes -- the output gets jumbled! And believe me, when a new
Clojure dev sees that for the first time, he/she wants to quit.
2) printing is terrible for elegant clojure code -- thing (comp f g h
Not really true, most of my programs contain this function:
(defn debug [x]
(pprint x)
x)
Now I can do this:
(comp foo debug bar)
Also, with some reader literal magic, I could write something to let me do
this:
(myfunc foo #dbg bar)
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:12 PM, David Jacobs
That's true -- that's why I wrote up the Letters debugging mini-library for
Ruby (lettersrb.com). However, there's friction there, too, and a surprising
number of people don't think to do this.
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Timothy Baldridge wrote:
Not really true, most of my
So what I'm gathering (I'm still trying to grok) is that clojure-metal is
an approach that somewhat parallels PyPy, except in Clojure, and except
that instead of defining a type-inferrable subset RClojure, you instead
define an internal DSL via mjolnir that allows you to specify the types
(or the slightly hackier but probably easier version: create a tool that
translates a subset of Clojure to RPython)
On Friday, May 31, 2013 10:26:56 AM UTC+8, Dax Fohl wrote:
So what I'm gathering (I'm still trying to grok) is that clojure-metal is
an approach that somewhat parallels PyPy,
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