Peltiers cruel and unusual punishment.

2001 -- INTERNATIONAL DAY OF PROTEST TO FREE LEONARD PELTIER on the 25 anniversary of his arrest. The US government claims worldwide to be a fierce defender of human rights & democracy but behind the walls of American prisons the myth collapses... His sentence by the US government to two consec

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Anonymous wrote: > As someone I knew who used to work for the US > government once told me, the only "perfect crime" > is the one for which you aren't even a suspect. > Perfectly sound reasoning--and if he knew this as > a civilian there's no reason on this earth to > think h

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Aimee Farr wrote: > You are the one that seeks to solve a political issue at the point of the > sword. That's war, not a Lincoln-Douglas debate. I believe my Gen. Paine is > more qualified to speak to the issue. General Paine should know all about seeking political solution

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

-- On 13 Feb 2002, at 12:23, Aimee Farr wrote: > "The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the > blood of tyrants." > > It's sad, but I have come to hate that quote, because > contemporary history paints a much different picture: it is > no tree of liberty, and it damn sure isn

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

> I think between Thomas Schelling's "Strategy of Conflict" and > Herman Kahn's > "On Thermonuclear War" you can find pretty much everything you > need to know. > I'll bet both of you would find a lot to enjoy in them. > > "They seemed so very cautious and correct, these deadly words. Soft, quiet

Re: Chotian Paine in the butt. (Was: RE: Cruel and unusual punishment)

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Marcel Popescu wrote: > The idea of "experiments" is socialistic in nature; capitalism is based on > principles. Capitalism is based on profit, not principles. It uses 'principles' or 'strategies' to manage that profit. Religion and politics are based on principles (one of

Re: Chotian Paine in the butt. (Was: RE: Cruel and unusual punishment)

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Steve Schear wrote: > At 06:27 PM 2/11/2002 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > > >Oh, there are no 'hereditary rights'. You can't inherit a right from your > >parents. You're simply born with it. > > You should take this up with Mr. Paine. My copy of his collected works > shows

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Takes Apache to kill Apache. The US Army did a good job of it using scouts from other tribes. Guerrilla warfare is not a guarantee, it is only a strategic tactic against 'traditional' combat methods. Stop fighting traditionaly and the guerrilla ap

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aimee wrote: >You are the one that seeks to solve a political issue at the point of the >sword. That's war, not a Lincoln-Douglas debate. I believe my Gen. Paine is >more qualified to speak to the issue. I think between Thomas Schelling's "Strategy

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

> Mr. Soze: > This is not a people's war. If anything its a war against > democracy and an attempt to discipline elected officials into > obeying their sworn oaths. You know, the ones they rarely obey > and are almost never called to account. It would be a people's war, and it would have the o

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment

>>> AP is certainly no tool "for the people." The concept is closest to Mao's > "fundamental" force or primitive warfare. But AP is based on cowardice, not > courage. Division, instead of unity. Criminality, rather than cause. Enmity, > not education. etc. It's "the Greece mistake" no? -- a w

Re: Chotian Paine in the butt. (Was: RE: Cruel and unusual punishment)

From: "Steve Schear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > It will be > interesting to see whether our notion of inalienable (not to mention those > of the founders) is still a zeitgeist in a hundred years of so or whether > self-governance was just a failed experiment. The idea of "experiments" is socialistic

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment

From: "Aimee Farr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > The amateurs perhaps, but not the pros. Have you heard of the > > Ninja? > > How did they fare against Chiang and Mao? Pretty well. Chiang and Mao are dead :) > AP is certainly no tool "for the people." The concept is closest to Mao's > "fundamental"

Re: Chotian Paine in the butt. (Was: RE: Cruel and unusual punishment)

At 06:27 PM 2/11/2002 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Oh, there are no 'hereditary rights'. You can't inherit a right from your >parents. You're simply born with it. You should take this up with Mr. Paine. My copy of his collected works shows numerous references to the term he applied to the rights

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment

Peter, On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: > A search for 'General Paine' quickly turns up > General Eleazar Arthur Paine. He was well > known for his cruelty to the people of occupied > Tennesee, including his many arbitrary and > extra-legal executions. There are two others also, both ge

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

our mouth (or keyboard) in gear. It would make you look a lot smarter. Peter Trei > -- > From: Jim Choate[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:12 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: C

Re: Chotian Paine in the butt. (Was: RE: Cruel and unusual punishment)

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Steve Schear wrote: > I think you're a bit confused by the poor context continuity of the > responders. It was Soze who originally failed to clarify (his?) Paine > reference. Ms. Farr just used that opportunity to add ambiguity or just > playfully redirect the thread to

Re: Chotian Paine in the butt. (Was: RE: Cruel and unusual punishment)

At 05:43 PM 2/11/2002 -0600, Black Unicorn wrote: >I believe Ms. Farr is referring to Brigadier General E. A. Paine. > >Like Thomas Paine he also wrote quite a bit on Hereditary rights. Since you >weren't adroit enough to specify which Paine you meant, it's quite >convenient for you to switch mid

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

Mr. Soze: >> Perhaps in the past, but unless you include citizens and their > government, there has never been a historical period, to my > knowledge, where people unaffiliated except for their ideology or > religion "voted" the death of another by proxy. Should an > effective AP machanism come

Re: Chotian Paine in the butt. (Was: RE: Cruel and unusual punishment)

At 5:43 PM -0600 on 2/11/02, Black Unicorn wrote: > This will make three of your addresses now in my killfile. It's like a virus coat, or something. Whack-A-Choate, maybe... :-). Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

Aimee wrote: >Assassination has proven a poor political >solution for revolutionary climates, People's >War, and political agendas. Killing only gets >you a body. Michael Collins was proficient >(Anglo-Irish War >1916-1921), but even he caught > the bullet -- and he had a lot of things going >

Re: CDR: RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Anonymous wrote: > I know those qualifiers are going to sound a > little harsh but if you ever met one you'd know > what I mean. I don't mean to imply they aren't > genuinely and sincerely patriotic, either. They > are. Which makes the whole enterprise even > stranger. I k

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

Aimee wrote: >Assassination has proven a poor political >solution for revolutionary climates, People's >War, and political agendas. Killing only gets >you a body. Michael Collins was proficient >(Anglo-Irish War >1916-1921), but even he caught > the bullet -- and he had a lot of things going >fo

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment.

On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Going back to the earlier case, I suspect it'll be overturned by the > supremes. Lawyer types correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe > the SC has consistently held that the ban on cruel and > unusual punishment only bans cer

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment

On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Anonymous wrote: > Second, what AP proponents do not realise, is that working AP would greatly > cut the costs incurred by the state, and that the state would be the single > most important user of the AP. Actually they'd be in a race with corporate america. --

RE: Cruel and unusual punishment

>you don't. Ever since, people have tried to use assassination as a tool for >this genre of warfare. The problem is reprisals and replacement. First, assassinations work, but must be done properly and on a massive scale. It's called "war" and it depletes the replacements for sure. Second, what

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment

>>I don't think anything short of anon. betting pools will work in today's political climate of wealth redistribution and "textualist" interpretative SC decisions. I agree,how about ponying up a buck or two for dick Armitage? Or select your own targeted action and Ill chip in. Who else here i

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment

At 01:30 PM 2/9/2002 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: [1] This segues into the question of 'How?'. Clearly Congress will not pass such a significant limit on its operating proceedure without a mighty big stick. In addition, it isn't likely that a Constitutional Convention would be of any real

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment.

as ruled that life in prison for shoplifting is > > > cruel and unusual punishment. > > > >All 3-strike type laws are unconstitutional and need to be removed. > > Except for one's which still need passage: removing office holders who > demonstrate their violati

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment.

ruled that life in prison for shoplifting is > > > cruel and unusual punishment. > > > >All 3-strike type laws are unconstitutional and need to be removed. > > Except for one's which still need passage: removing office holders who > demonstrate their violation of

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment.

At 09:31 AM 2/9/2002 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, proffr11 wrote: > > > SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - In a serious blow to California's three-strikes > law, a > > federal appeals court has ruled that life in prison for shoplifting is > > cruel and unusual

Re: Cruel and unusual punishment.

On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, proffr11 wrote: > SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - In a serious blow to California's three-strikes law, a > federal appeals court has ruled that life in prison for shoplifting is > cruel and unusual punishment. All 3-strike type laws are unconstitutional and need

Cruel and unusual punishment.

fting is cruel and unusual punishment. Thursday's decision by a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) is expected to overturn the sentences of 340 people serving life terms for shoplifting. It also may spark appeals from inmates serving life