On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 09:07:50PM +0100, Amaya wrote:
> Chris Bannister wrote:
> > Obviously, it *is* discrimination. What can a 34.5 year old do that a
> > 35.5 year old can't do?
>
> Get you tax savings? Give you access to economic help for getting people
> a new job?
> Not that I think that it
Amaya wrote:
> George Danchev wrote:
> > > Men ARE discriminating women and kicking them off...
> >
> > Really? Worst, in some parts of the Earth people are dying for no good
> > reasons...
>
> True.
> And I don't see hoe your statement and her statement are related in any
> way.
Wait, now I se
George Danchev wrote:
> > Men ARE discriminating women and kicking them off...
>
> Really? Worst, in some parts of the Earth people are dying for no good
> reasons...
True.
And I don't see hoe your statement and her statement are related in any
way.
--
·''`. There's no ar
On Friday 05 December 2008 23:34:41 Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am 2008-12-06 01:58:59, schrieb Chris Bannister:
> > > Note: I employ only women (IT and Electronic)
> >
> > And so is that!
> >
> > Both illegal in New Zealand and hopefully, nearly(?) all other
> > countries.
>
> Even if it is a proje
Michelle Konzack, vendredi 5 décembre 2008, 22:34:41 CET
>
> Am 2008-12-06 01:58:59, schrieb Chris Bannister:
> > > Note: I employ only women (IT and Electronic)
> >
> > And so is that!
> >
> > Both illegal in New Zealand and hopefully, nearly(?) all
> > other countries.
>
> Even if it is a p
Am 2008-12-06 01:58:59, schrieb Chris Bannister:
> > Note: I employ only women (IT and Electronic)
>
> And so is that!
>
> Both illegal in New Zealand and hopefully, nearly(?) all other
> countries.
Even if it is a project from the UNDP/UNESCO?
Men ARE discriminating women and kicking them of
Chris Bannister wrote:
> Obviously, it *is* discrimination. What can a 34.5 year old do that a
> 35.5 year old can't do?
Get you tax savings? Give you access to economic help for getting people
a new job?
Not that I think that it should be the *final* criteria.
--
·''`. It's never too late to
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 05:49:31PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am 2008-11-25 20:17:22, schrieb W. Martin Borgert:
> > I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> > offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> > disability, age, gender, sexual orientatio
On Monday 01 December 2008 15:42:20 Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:05:07PM +, Mark Brown a écrit :
> > FWIW similar issues apply in most of Europe too.
>
> Thank you for the information. For Antartica, the situation of
> discrimination has rapidly and positively evolved and
Le Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:05:07PM +, Mark Brown a écrit :
>
> FWIW similar issues apply in most of Europe too.
Thank you for the information. For Antartica, the situation of discrimination
has rapidly and positively evolved and I am proud to announce to the Project
that in the French territo
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 03:29:11AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> My comments were solely intended to point out the possible cultural
> difference and the fact that many people in the US will have a strong
> reaction to this sort of thing. (I'm one of them. Age discrimination
> makes me extremely
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 09:53:36AM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 01:00:24PM -0800, Baz wrote:
> > > It's only going to take one over-zealous U.S. attorney, to get hold of
> > > this
> > > and run with it.
> > We'
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 01:00:24PM -0800, Baz wrote:
> > It's only going to take one over-zealous U.S. attorney, to get hold of this
> > and run with it.
>
> We're talking about a posting for a job in Switzerland. Don't be absurd.
That stopped being t
Baz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It's only going to take one over-zealous U.S. attorney, to get hold of
> this and run with it. It doesn't necessarily matter if it's legal
> discrimination. What matters is, the Debian Project can't afford the
> legal exposure; that is, defending itself legally.
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:14:18 -0500
Daniel Dickinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:25:11 -0800
> Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 01:00:24PM -0800, Baz wrote:
> > > It's only going to take one over-zealous U.S. attorney, to get
> > > hol
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:25:11 -0800
Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 01:00:24PM -0800, Baz wrote:
> > It's only going to take one over-zealous U.S. attorney, to get hold
> > of this and run with it.
>
> We're talking about a posting for a job in Switzerland. Don
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 01:00:24PM -0800, Baz wrote:
> It's only going to take one over-zealous U.S. attorney, to get hold of this
> and run with it.
We're talking about a posting for a job in Switzerland. Don't be absurd.
--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Fr
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I maintain that informing interested parties up front about an age
> > requirement in a job *offer*/ad is not the same as turning down (or
> > firing) someone for _no other
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I maintain that informing interested parties up front about an age
> requirement in a job *offer*/ad is not the same as turning down (or
> firing) someone for _no other_ reason than age.
If you act on that restriction, I believe it is in the United St
Noah Meyerhans wrote:
> Personally, I can't see how any company that would turn away a more
> qualified candidate in favor of one less qualified based solely on
> something like age has much hope of lasting very long. Nor would I be
> sorry to see it go.
Well, in my experience, having two similar
Hello Martin and *,
Am 2008-11-27 10:19:32, schrieb W. Martin Borgert:
> At least in Germany, this can lead to a "dissuasion"(?) -
> Abmahnung, i.e. the company has to pay a kind of fine/charge, on
> grounds of "Common Equalisation Law"(?) - AGG, Allgemeines
> Gleichstellungsgesetz. As always: IAN
First: I didn't mean to point fingers against that specific
company. I have no reason to assume that they are in general
"discriminatory" or whatever. I just think that one sentence
in their offer was inappropriate for our project. So, please
people of nine.ch: Please take my mail as constructive
c
also sprach Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.27.0152 +0100]:
> For example, I'm fairly sure that job ad is illegal in the
> United States.
[...]
> Were this job advertisement published in the United States and
> someone over the age of forty turned down because of the age
> restriction, th
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Wolfgang, please stop this. Putting a maximum age into a job description
> is standard practice because a company does not want to invest time and
> money into a new employee for various reasons, be they simple age and
> thus time left to work for the
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 06:17:45PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Gunnar Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1807 +0100]:
> > And no, it's not Debian's flaw or problem - but Wolfgang's
> > complaint is IMHO very well in place. It will reach the clueless
> > HR recruiter, and -as he po
* W. Martin Borgert:
> Quoting Andre Timmermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> We are searching for a system engineer in in Zurich,
>> Switzerland.
> ...
>> Requirements:
> ...
>>* Younger than 35 years
>
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate o
also sprach Gunnar Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1807 +0100]:
> And no, it's not Debian's flaw or problem - but Wolfgang's
> complaint is IMHO very well in place. It will reach the clueless
> HR recruiter, and -as he posted to -jobs- probably other HR people
> pondering on writing to Debian.
martin f krafft dijo [Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:11:13AM +0100]:
> Wolfgang, please stop this. Putting a maximum age into a job
> description is standard practice because a company does not want to
> invest time and money into a new employee for various reasons, be
> they simple age and thus time left
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:53:43 +1100
Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Poole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I am rather surprised that the majority reaction to this is so
> > different from the majority reaction to a poorly executed satire --
> > something which was also claimed to
Am 2008-11-25 20:17:22, schrieb W. Martin Borgert:
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> disability, age, gender, sexual orientation or religion. Not
> only it is illegal in some countries, I find it highl
* Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-11-26 04:45]:
> If moderation was occuring before mailing list distribution, this
> would be a requeest to consider. As there isn't, there's not much to
> discuss.
Actually, debian-jobs is moderated. I'm the acting moderator.
--
Martin Michlmayr
http://w
Michael Poole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I am rather surprised that the majority reaction to this is so
> different from the majority reaction to a poorly executed satire --
> something which was also claimed to be discriminatory.
Actually, I agree that most of W. Martin Borgert's list of crit
First off, can we please refrain from uselessly crossposting? This
isn't a job offer, so it doesn't belong on -jobs. I'm not even
convinced that it belongs on -project, but I'll respond here once
since it's at least marginally related to the project. In the future,
if you have a concern about the m
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 08:17:22PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> > Requirements:
> ...
> >* Younger than 35 years
>
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> disability, age, gender, sexual orient
martin f krafft writes:
> also sprach W. Martin Borgert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.25.2017 +0100]:
>> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
>> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
>> disability, age, gender, sexual orientation or religion. Not
>
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:48:27PM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> More accurately: it *is* discrimination (because people are being selected
> based on some criterion), but what is at issue is whether it is *unfair*
> discrimination.
Well said.
Next on our list of politically correct items to complai
also sprach Andreas Tille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1323 +0100]:
> Come on Charles - it's obviousely flaming season. We had nearly one year
> without
> heavy flames. But people seem to enjoy this these days and it's winter time
> at
> Northern hemisphere where many participiants in these
"Rafal Czlonka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
> > discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing else, they are
> > (we hope!) discriminating based on demonstrated ability to perform the
> > job functions. So we can't simply re
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, Charles Plessy wrote:
"Please post only job offers that discriminate people who send too many
messages to too many mailing lists." Then there would be a direct benefit for
Debian.
;-)
Come on Charles - it's obviousely flaming season. We had nearly one year
without
heav
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:01:54PM +, Rafal Czlonka wrote:
> > Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
> > discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing else, they are
> > (we hope!) discriminating based on demonstrated ability to perform the
> > job functions. So
Le Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:55:09PM +1100, Ben Finney a écrit :
>
> What seems to be the issue is that some people find the particular
> stated discriminatory *criteria* to be objectionable ones. So
> presumably you would want such a request to say something like
> “Please no job offers that discri
> Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
> discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing else, they are
> (we hope!) discriminating based on demonstrated ability to perform the
> job functions. So we can't simply request job adverts avoid
> "discriminatory job offers"
Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I support Jurjs proposal of adding a "Please no discriminatory job
> offers" or such to http://lists.debian.org/debian-jobs/
I do not.
Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing e
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You may be 70 and capable to do a job which required me to invest 2
> years into you, but the chance of you waking up dead is far higher
> than of a 30-year-old. Plain fact, no discrimination.
More accurately: it *is* discrimination (because people ar
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 08:17:22PM +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> disability, age, gender, sexual orientation or religion. Not
> only it is illegal in some countries,
also sprach Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1136 +0100]:
> So what? The same can be said (for example) for hiring only
> females for certain jobs ("nicer telephone voice", "more appealing
> to (male) customers", whatever crap).
>
> That's also (somewhat) standard practice in Germany,
On 2008-11-26 11:12 +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> If there were a country that required me to hire people
> independently of age, I'd surely take my business elsewhere. You may
> be 70 and capable to do a job which required me to invest 2 years
> into you, but the chance of you waking up dead is
On Wednesday 2008-11-26, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach W. Martin Borgert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.25.2017
+0100]:
> > I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> > offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> > disability, age, gender, sexual ori
On Wed, November 26, 2008 11:12, martin f krafft wrote:
> You may be 70 and capable to do a job which required me to invest 2 years
> into you,
I'd be with you if the ad required a maximum age that was actually
somewhere close to the pension age. Your example does not compare with the
arbitrary ag
Hi,
On Wednesday 26 November 2008 10:11, martin f krafft wrote:
> Putting a maximum age into a job
> description is standard practice because a company does not want to
> invest time and money into a new employee for various reasons, be
> they simple age and thus time left to work for the company,
Le mercredi 26 novembre 2008 à 09:39 +, Jurij Smakov a écrit :
> Sorry, but I'm with Wolfgang on this one. I'm pretty sure that this
> "standard practice" is illegal in most of EU countries (judging by
> existence of EU directive 2000/78/EC)
Bullshit. Most jobs in public administrations have
also sprach Jurij Smakov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.26.1039 +0100]:
> Sorry, but I'm with Wolfgang on this one. I'm pretty sure that this
> "standard practice" is illegal in most of EU countries (judging by
> existence of EU directive 2000/78/EC) and in the US, and I would
> expect similar law
Jurij Smakov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (26/11/2008):
> It's pretty unfortunate that Switzerland does not have any law in
> place preventing age discrimination [0], and I believe that in the
> spirit of Debian we should not provide a forum for posting
> discriminatory job offers. I suggest to have the blu
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:11:13AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach W. Martin Borgert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.25.2017 +0100]:
> > I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> > offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> > disability, age, ge
also sprach W. Martin Borgert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.11.25.2017 +0100]:
> I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
> offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
> disability, age, gender, sexual orientation or religion. Not
> only it is illegal in some co
Quoting Andre Timmermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> We are searching for a system engineer in in Zurich,
> Switzerland.
...
> Requirements:
...
>* Younger than 35 years
I would very much appreciate, if Debian would not publish job
offers that discriminate on the grounds of race, ethnic origin,
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