Karsten M. Self wrote:
...
The problem isn't just vi, though. _Most_ Unix commands are based on
mnemonic, consonant-heavy, abbreviations: ls, cd, rm, mv, ll, who, vi,
ps, mutt, df Most of these are balanced between left and right
hands, leading to good natural rhythems, many are based
On 26-Dec-01 Karsten M. Self wrote:
The problem isn't just vi, though. _Most_ Unix commands are based on
mnemonic, consonant-heavy, abbreviations: ls, cd, rm, mv, ll, who, vi,
ps, mutt, df Most of these are balanced between left and right
hands, leading to good natural rhythems, many
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:26:56PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 08:07:40AM -0600, Colin Watson
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
No, usually what's happened in these cases is that the man page is in
the main package while the info pages are in a separate -doc package
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:25:09PM -0500, David Teague wrote:
I LIKE emacs. We were using vi as our only text editor with System V
machines in the late 80s. I found and installed Emacs, within one
week everyone on my faculty was using emacs.
Given a 1980s-era vi, I'd probably have gone for
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 02:49:40PM -0600, Colin Watson wrote:
| On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:25:09PM -0500, David Teague wrote:
| I LIKE emacs. We were using vi as our only text editor with System V
| machines in the late 80s. I found and installed Emacs, within one
| week everyone on my faculty
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger wrote:
...
I'm not sure where in the thread my comments belong so I'll put them
here.
| So what is it that makes you (and others) react so vehemently?
I've tried to use info a few times, and it is always difficult. The
keybindings are
dman wrote:
...
info2vim converter then I could be happy :-). If you don't already
know : vim allows for hyper-links (start with :help) that can be
followed with ^] and ^T takes you back where you were before.
and for those who really didn't know: you can 'hyperlink' your code
(at least c,
I know that many GNU tools have nice HTML and PS/PDF documents available
on gnu.org, and the TOC resembles what I've seen in 'info'.
With good reason. Try 'apt-cache show texinfo'.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 04:38:07PM -0800, Erik Steffl wrote:
| dman wrote:
| ...
| info2vim converter then I could be happy :-). If you don't already
| know : vim allows for hyper-links (start with :help) that can be
| followed with ^] and ^T takes you back where you were before.
|
| and
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:38:49 -0800
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote:
- It attempts to replace, not augment, an existing, established,
viable, useful, and effective standard. This is
Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
...
One of the declared aims of info is to provide a frame to write
introductions or tutorials which wouldn't fit well into a man page,
because that is limited to a reference
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:52:46AM -0800, Erik Steffl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL
PROTECTED]) wrote:
...
One of the declared aims of info is to provide a frame to write
introductions or
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:21:55AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:38:49 -0800
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote:
...followed by dire warnings that the manpage may not
On 24 Dec 2001, Gary Turner wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 15:07:41 -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Hi All !
When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
I consider this acceptable only
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com writes:
- It's (largely) bound to a specific viewer. Which, if you don't use
emacs, isn't particularly usable, and is about as intuitive
as...well, emacs. This has changed as additional viewers are
avilable (e.g.: pinfo -- based on
Karsten M. Self schrieb:
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
dman writes:
Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
How about the fact that NPU have no
I wrote:
What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
Karsten M. Self writes:
How about the fact that NPU have no relationship to your _own_ path through
the documentation tree...
What does that have to do with my question?
...as they would in, say, a web
Karsten
I LIKE emacs. We were using vi as our only text editor with System V
machines in the late 80s. I found and installed Emacs, within one
week everyone on my faculty was using emacs.
That said, every other point you make here is RIGHT ON. I find info
to be arcane, inspite of its keystrokes
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 10:06:38AM +, Anthony Campbell ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On 24 Dec 2001, Gary Turner wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 15:07:41 -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich ([EMAIL
PROTECTED]) wrote:
Hi All !
When
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 07:18:08PM +0100, Michael Mauch ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Karsten M. Self schrieb:
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
dman writes:
Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
What is emacs-centric about
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 01:07:23PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
I wrote:
What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
Karsten M. Self writes:
How about the fact that NPU have no relationship to your _own_ path
through the documentation
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 08:07:40AM -0600, Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:21:55AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL
PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:38:49 -0800
Karsten M. Self
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Brian Nelson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com writes:
- It's (largely) bound to a specific viewer. Which, if you don't use
emacs, isn't particularly usable, and is about as intuitive
as...well, emacs.
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com writes:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 01:07:23PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
I thought you were a man page enthusiast. Now you want html
documentation? IMHO html is a lousy choice.
It's a well known standard. I know a lot of people
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:41:19PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
dman writes:
Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 11:52:45PM +0100, Henrik Enberg ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com writes:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 01:07:23PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
I thought you were a man page enthusiast. Now you want html
on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:01:43AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:41:19PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
dman writes:
Personally it is the emacs-centric
On Tuesday 25 December 2001 16:52 pm, Henrik Enberg wrote:
But none of the current browsers I'm aware of has the index and
searching facilities that info has. When I'm stuck with html
documentation I'm always extremely annoyed about how hard it is to find
what I'm looking for.
Me too. And
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:38:49PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
...
I ***DESPISE*** info. The pinfo alternative helps somewhat, but the
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:16:15PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:01:43AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
...
I see. So you're surprised by all those web pages that have next, and
previous buttons too:)
Previously addressed: there is a
on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:40:46AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:38:49PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL
PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M.
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 15:25:09 -0500 (EST)
From: David Teague [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]
Html information browsed with a decent TEXT mode browser that is
intuitive (OK I know one man's intuitive is another's nightmare) . .
. [snip]
Off topic, drifting . . . .
One of the greatest sins
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 04:42:20PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:40:46AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
...
I was only surprised by the vehement nature of your dislikes, but
I think I see. The main problem you and others have with info are:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 05:28:56PM -0600, Bud Rogers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Tuesday 25 December 2001 16:52 pm, Henrik Enberg wrote:
But none of the current browsers I'm aware of has the index and
searching facilities that info has. When I'm stuck with html
documentation I'm always
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com writes:
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Brian Nelson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com writes:
- It's (largely) bound to a specific viewer. Which, if you don't use
emacs, isn't particularly usable,
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 10:55:10PM -0500, Brian Nelson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com writes:
...
I don't dislike emacs keybindings per se (I find most legacy MS
Windows- centric word processors unusable because I expect to find
C-a, C-e, C-k, C-p, C-n,
On Monday 24 December 2001 12:37 pm, Martin Emrich wrote:
Hi All !
When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful. Where is aditional
documentation usually
linuxdoc.org for whole documentation
groups.deja.com for specific questions (this list posts to usenet as
muc.lists.debian.user methinks)
-lev
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Martin Emrich wrote:
Hi All !
When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
But where do I find the
www.linuxdoc.org
www.linuxnewbie.org
the documentation for various packages is on the website for those packages
- Original Message -
From: Martin Emrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 12:37 PM
Subject: Where do you RTFM ?
Hi All !
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich wrote:
When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful. Where is aditional
documentation usually
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich wrote:
| Hi All !
|
| When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
|
| But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
| the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful. Where is aditional
|
dman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich wrote:
| Hi All !
|
| When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
|
| But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
| the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very
Alec wrote:
Try typing info:/ into konqueror. This will give you something to read
until 2003. Otherwise, RTFM is sometimes accompanied by DAFS (Do a f*
search), which should be directing you to, say,
http://groups.google.com/groups?group=comp.os.linux.misc
with all google's search
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Hi All !
When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
I consider this acceptable only IITTNTRFMTFR [1]
But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
the contents of
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, yugami wrote:
www.linuxdoc.org
www.linuxnewbie.org
Also http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/ (Debian-specific)
Faheem.
On Monday 24 December 2001 12:37, Martin Emrich wrote:
Hi All !
When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man
foo nor the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful.
Where is aditional documentation usually
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 15:07:41 -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
Hi All !
When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
I consider this acceptable only IITTNTRFMTFR [1]
Thanks, Karsten. When I query
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 04:47:41PM -0500, Brian Nelson wrote:
dman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich wrote:
| When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
|
| But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
...
I ***DESPISE*** info. The pinfo alternative helps somewhat, but the
basic concept still sucks. It should be scrapped for a searchable
format based on HTML, XHTML, or preferably something like DocBook
capable of creating
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger wrote:
| On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
| ...
| I ***DESPISE*** info. The pinfo alternative helps somewhat, but the
| basic concept still sucks. It should be scrapped for a searchable
| format based on
dman writes:
Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
I use both info and Emacs and don't find info Emacs-like at all when not
run from inside Emacs.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood,
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
...
I ***DESPISE*** info. The pinfo alternative helps somewhat, but the
basic concept still sucks. It should be scrapped for a searchable
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
dman writes:
Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
How about the fact that NPU have no relationship to your _own_ path
through
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:38:49 -0800
Karsten M. Self kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote:
- It attempts to replace, not augment, an existing, established,
viable, useful, and effective standard. This is almost always a bad
idea. The far better tack: provided augmented functionality. If
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