On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 04:38:07PM -0800, Erik Steffl wrote:
| dman wrote:
| ...
| > info2vim converter then I could be happy :-). If you don't already
| > know : vim allows for hyper-links (start with :help) that can be
| > followed with ^] and ^T takes you back where you were before.
|
| and
> I know that many GNU tools have nice HTML and PS/PDF documents available
> on gnu.org, and the TOC resembles what I've seen in 'info'.
With good reason. Try 'apt-cache show texinfo'.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
dman wrote:
...
> info2vim converter then I could be happy :-). If you don't already
> know : vim allows for hyper-links (start with :help) that can be
> followed with ^] and ^T takes you back where you were before.
and for those who really didn't know: you can 'hyperlink' your code
(at least c
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger wrote:
...
I'm not sure where in the thread my comments belong so I'll put them
here.
| So what is it that makes you (and others) react so vehemently?
I've tried to use info a few times, and it is always difficult. The
keybindings are u
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 02:49:40PM -0600, Colin Watson wrote:
| On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:25:09PM -0500, David Teague wrote:
| > I LIKE emacs. We were using vi as our only text editor with System V
| > machines in the late 80s. I found and installed Emacs, within one
| > week everyone on my facult
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:25:09PM -0500, David Teague wrote:
> I LIKE emacs. We were using vi as our only text editor with System V
> machines in the late 80s. I found and installed Emacs, within one
> week everyone on my faculty was using emacs.
Given a 1980s-era vi, I'd probably have gone for e
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:26:56PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 08:07:40AM -0600, Colin Watson
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > No, usually what's happened in these cases is that the man page is in
> > the main package while the info pages are in a separate -doc package
>
On 26-Dec-01 Karsten M. Self wrote:
> The problem isn't just vi, though. _Most_ Unix commands are based on
> mnemonic, consonant-heavy, abbreviations: ls, cd, rm, mv, ll, who, vi,
> ps, mutt, df Most of these are balanced between left and right
> hands, leading to good natural rhythems, many
"Karsten M. Self" wrote:
...
> The problem isn't just vi, though. _Most_ Unix commands are based on
> mnemonic, consonant-heavy, abbreviations: ls, cd, rm, mv, ll, who, vi,
> ps, mutt, df Most of these are balanced between left and right
> hands, leading to good natural rhythems, many are ba
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 10:55:10PM -0500, Brian Nelson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> "Karsten M. Self" writes:
<...>
> > I don't dislike emacs keybindings per se (I find most legacy MS
> > Windows- centric word processors unusable because I expect to find
> > C-a, C-e, C-k, C-p, C-n, C-s, C-r, e
"Karsten M. Self" writes:
> on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Brian Nelson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
> > "Karsten M. Self" writes:
> >
> > > - It's (largely) bound to a specific viewer. Which, if you don't use
> > > emacs, isn't particularly usable, and is about as intuitive
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 05:28:56PM -0600, Bud Rogers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 December 2001 16:52 pm, Henrik Enberg wrote:
>
> > But none of the current browsers I'm aware of has the index and
> > searching facilities that info has. When I'm stuck with html
> > documentation I'm
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 04:42:20PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:40:46AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
...
> > I was only surprised by the vehement nature of your dislikes, but
> > I think I see. The main problem you and others have with info are:
> Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 15:25:09 -0500 (EST)
> From: David Teague <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[snip]
> Html information browsed with a decent TEXT mode browser that is
> intuitive (OK I know one man's intuitive is another's nightmare) . .
> . [snip]
Off topic, & drifting . . . .
One of the greatest s
on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:40:46AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:38:49PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL
> > PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Kars
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:16:15PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:01:43AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
...
> > I see. So you're surprised by all those web pages that have next, and
> > previous buttons too:)
>
> Previously addressed: there is a
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:38:49PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > ...
> > > I ***DESPISE*** info. The pinfo alternative helps somewhat,
On Tuesday 25 December 2001 16:52 pm, Henrik Enberg wrote:
> But none of the current browsers I'm aware of has the index and
> searching facilities that info has. When I'm stuck with html
> documentation I'm always extremely annoyed about how hard it is to find
> what I'm looking for.
Me too.
on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:01:43AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:41:19PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > wrote:
> > > dman writes:
> > > > Personally it is the emacs-ce
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 11:52:45PM +0100, Henrik Enberg ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> "Karsten M. Self" writes:
>
> > on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 01:07:23PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > wrote:
>
> >> I thought you were a man page enthusiast. Now you want html
> >> documentation? IMH
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:41:19PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
> > dman writes:
> > > Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
> >
> > What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and EN
"Karsten M. Self" writes:
> on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 01:07:23PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
>> I thought you were a man page enthusiast. Now you want html
>> documentation? IMHO html is a lousy choice.
>
> It's a well known standard. I know a lot of people (including many
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Brian Nelson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> "Karsten M. Self" writes:
>
> > - It's (largely) bound to a specific viewer. Which, if you don't use
> > emacs, isn't particularly usable, and is about as intuitive
> > as...well, emacs. This has chan
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 08:07:40AM -0600, Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:21:55AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL
> > PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:38:49 -0800
> > > "Karsten
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 01:07:23PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I wrote:
> > What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
>
> Karsten M. Self writes:
> > How about the fact that NPU have no relationship to your _own_ path
> > through the documentati
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 07:18:08PM +0100, Michael Mauch ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> Karsten M. Self schrieb:
>
> > on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > wrote:
> > > dman writes:
> > > > Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
> > >
> > > What is e
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 10:06:38AM +, Anthony Campbell ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> On 24 Dec 2001, Gary Turner wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 15:07:41 -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> >
> > >on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich ([EMAIL
> > >PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > >> Hi All
Karsten
I LIKE emacs. We were using vi as our only text editor with System V
machines in the late 80s. I found and installed Emacs, within one
week everyone on my faculty was using emacs.
That said, every other point you make here is RIGHT ON. I find info
to be arcane, inspite of its keystrokes
I wrote:
> What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
Karsten M. Self writes:
> How about the fact that NPU have no relationship to your _own_ path through
> the documentation tree...
What does that have to do with my question?
> ...as they would in, say, a web br
Karsten M. Self schrieb:
> on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
> > dman writes:
> > > Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
> >
> > What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
>
> How about the fact that NPU h
"Karsten M. Self" writes:
> - It's (largely) bound to a specific viewer. Which, if you don't use
> emacs, isn't particularly usable, and is about as intuitive
> as...well, emacs. This has changed as additional viewers are
> avilable (e.g.: pinfo -- based on lynx...but, of course,
On 24 Dec 2001, Gary Turner wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 15:07:41 -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
>
> >on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> >wrote:
> >> Hi All !
> >>
> >> When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
> >
> >I consider this ac
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:21:55AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:38:49 -0800
> > "Karsten M. Self" wrote:
> > > ...followed by dire warnings that the manpage may not be updated,
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:52:46AM -0800, Erik Steffl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> "Karsten M. Self" wrote:
> >
> > on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL
> > PROTECTED]) wrote:
> ...
> > > One of the declared aims of info is to provide a frame to write
> > > introducti
"Karsten M. Self" wrote:
>
> on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
...
> > One of the declared aims of info is to provide a frame to write
> > introductions or tutorials which wouldn't fit well into a man page,
> > because that is limited to a refe
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 03:54:36AM -0200, Christoph Simon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:38:49 -0800
> "Karsten M. Self" wrote:
>
> > - It attempts to replace, not augment, an existing, established,
> > viable, useful, and effective standard. This is almost always a b
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:38:49 -0800
"Karsten M. Self" wrote:
> - It attempts to replace, not augment, an existing, established,
> viable, useful, and effective standard. This is almost always a bad
> idea. The far better tack: provided augmented functionality. If
> your solution
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 08:57:27PM -0600, John Hasler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> dman writes:
> > Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
>
> What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
How about the fact that NPU have no relationship to your _own_ path
thro
on Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> ...
> > I ***DESPISE*** info. The pinfo alternative helps somewhat, but the
> > basic concept still sucks. It should be scrapped for a searcha
dman writes:
> Personally it is the emacs-centric interface.
What is emacs-centric about (N)ext, (P)revious, (U)p, (S)earch, and ENTER?
I use both info and Emacs and don't find info Emacs-like at all when not
run from inside Emacs.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wis
On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 02:44:17AM +0100, Carel Fellinger wrote:
| On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
| ...
| > I ***DESPISE*** info. The pinfo alternative helps somewhat, but the
| > basic concept still sucks. It should be scrapped for a searchable
| > format based
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:07:41PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
...
> I ***DESPISE*** info. The pinfo alternative helps somewhat, but the
> basic concept still sucks. It should be scrapped for a searchable
> format based on HTML, XHTML, or preferably something like DocBook
> capable of creating
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 04:47:41PM -0500, Brian Nelson wrote:
> dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich wrote:
> > | When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
> > |
> > | But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001 15:07:41 -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
>on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>wrote:
>> Hi All !
>>
>> When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
>
>I consider this acceptable only IITTNTRFMTFR [1]
>
Thanks, Karsten. Wh
On Monday 24 December 2001 12:37, Martin Emrich wrote:
> Hi All !
>
> When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
>
> But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man
> foo nor the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful.
> Where is aditional documentation usually
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, yugami wrote:
> www.linuxdoc.org
> www.linuxnewbie.org
Also http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/ (Debian-specific)
Faheem.
on Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> Hi All !
>
> When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
I consider this acceptable only IITTNTRFMTFR [1]
> But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
> the contents o
Alec wrote:
>
> Try typing "info:/" into konqueror. This will give you something to read
> until 2003. Otherwise, RTFM is sometimes accompanied by DAFS (Do a f*
> search), which should be directing you to, say,
> http://groups.google.com/groups?group=comp.os.linux.misc
> with all google's searc
dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich wrote:
> | Hi All !
> |
> | When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
> |
> | But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
> | the contents of the /usr/doc/foo a
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich wrote:
| Hi All !
|
| When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
|
| But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
| the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful. Where is aditional
| documenta
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 06:37:25PM +0100, Martin Emrich wrote:
> When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
>
> But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
> the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful. Where is aditional
> documentation usually i
www.linuxdoc.org
www.linuxnewbie.org
the documentation for various packages is on the website for those packages
- Original Message -
From: "Martin Emrich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 12:37 PM
Subject: Where do you RTFM ?
> Hi All !
&
linuxdoc.org for whole documentation
groups.deja.com for specific questions (this list posts to usenet as
muc.lists.debian.user methinks)
-lev
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Martin Emrich wrote:
> Hi All !
>
> When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
>
> But where do I find the Infor
On Monday 24 December 2001 12:37 pm, Martin Emrich wrote:
> Hi All !
>
> When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
>
> But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
> the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful. Where is aditional
> documentation usua
Hi All !
When newbies ask something, they are often asked to RTFM...
But where do I find the Information ? Very often, neiter #man foo nor
the contents of the /usr/doc/foo are very helpful. Where is aditional
documentation usually installed ? Or do you know a good
"getting-documentation-howto
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