On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:13:46 -0400, tls wrote:
Robert Jacques Wrote:
Getting back to pure, one of the "big"
advantages of functional languages are their ability to automatically
parallelize themselves; and they use a work stealing runtime (aka tasks)
to do this.
What functional has task? I s
On 10/27/2010 4:11 PM, KennyTM~ wrote:
On Oct 28, 10 03:36, Eric Poggel wrote:
Making size_t signed would have consequences that are largely unknown.
Why .length cannot return a signed integer (not size_t) by default?
What if you're working in 32-bit mode and want to open a 3GB
memory-mappe
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshou...@digitalmars.com)'s article
> div0 wrote:
> > There's nothing special about a systems language; it's just they have
> > explicit facilities that make certain low level functionality easier to
> > implement. You could implement an OS in BASIC using PEEK/POKE if
== Quote from bioinfornatics (bioinfornat...@fedoraproject.org)'s article
> yes,
> is not against you work, it is as a packager point of view.
> while gdc will be not a gcc project, gdc can not be go in fedora.
That's not how I understand it. Fedora ships GCC-4.5 (not 4.4), and will shortly
switch
I am toying with more ideas to strengthen D type system a bit in few spots.
This is a minor thing, I don't know if this is a common enough situation to
deserve compiler support, maybe not.
If I want to use a C function from D code, and such C function has as arguments
both a pointer that repres
yes,
is not against you work, it is as a packager point of view.
while gdc will be not a gcc project, gdc can not be go in fedora.
and gdc do not follow gcc stable version because is not a gcc project
Same as said et start of this thread is not against your nice job.
I know for gdc becomme a g
div0 wrote:
There's nothing special about a systems language; it's just they have
explicit facilities that make certain low level functionality easier to
implement. You could implement an OS in BASIC using PEEK/POKE if you mad
enough.
I suppose it's like the difference between porn and art. I
== Quote from bioinfornatics (bioinfornat...@fedoraproject.org)'s article
> about compiler, for me:
> - gdc is not a gcc project
How is that a valid excuse?
Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 13/10/2010 17:27, retard wrote:
Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:41:05 +0200, Simen kjaeraas wrote:
Justin Johansson wrote:
The answer to the OP's question is simple: null's type is not
expressible in D.
That is a sad observation for a language that purports maturity beyond
th
Bruno Medeiros wrote:
> On 16/10/2010 10:50, "Jérôme M. Berger" wrote:
>> Same here, no IDE I've seen is able to format code and comments as
>> well as (X)Emacs.
>>
>> Jerome
>
> Interesting. For anyone else who shares that opinion, what are the IDE's
> that you have seen? In particula
about compiler, for me:
- dmd is not full open source
- gdc is not a gcc project
- ldc is godd compiler but they are some unfixed bug left since a long time ei
gtkd build
so i choose ldc
About ide i use codeblocks and for build my project i use my own makefile system
Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:35:38 -0400, dolive wrote:
> Bruno Medeiros ÐŽµœ:
>
>> On 13/10/2010 03:20, Eric Poggel wrote:
>> > On 10/12/2010 10:11 PM, Michael Stover wrote:
>> >> Descent is a dead project, replaced by DDT which doesn't have a
>> >> release. Also, I'm running Linux at home and Mac at wor
On 10/29/10 15:18 CDT, Pillsy wrote:
Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote: [...]
FWIW this matter is still tormenting me. It gridlocks work on
ranges, algorithms, and containers.
Here's my take: it seems in both cases you're arguing about
contorting something in the name of a relatively niche constructio
Bruno Medeiros дµ½:
> On 13/10/2010 03:20, Eric Poggel wrote:
> > On 10/12/2010 10:11 PM, Michael Stover wrote:
> >> Descent is a dead project, replaced by DDT which doesn't have a release.
> >> Also, I'm running Linux at home and Mac at work, so VisualD won't do for
> >> me. Poseidon is also Win
Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:54:03 +0100, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
> On 14/10/2010 13:30, Justin Johansson wrote:
>> Touted often around here is the term "systems language".
>>
>> May we please discuss a definition to be agreed upon for the usage this
>> term (at least in this community) and also have some ag
Bruno Medeiros дµ½:
> On 13/10/2010 03:20, Eric Poggel wrote:
> > On 10/12/2010 10:11 PM, Michael Stover wrote:
> >> Descent is a dead project, replaced by DDT which doesn't have a release.
> >> Also, I'm running Linux at home and Mac at work, so VisualD won't do for
> >> me. Poseidon is also Win
On 16/10/2010 10:50, "Jérôme M. Berger" wrote:
Russel Winder wrote:
On Wed, 2010-10-13 at 16:24 -0700, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
[ . . . ]
Proper code completion, correctly jumping to function definitions, and various
other features that IDEs generally do well tend to be quite poor in vim. It can
Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:
[...]
> FWIW this matter is still tormenting me. It gridlocks work on ranges,
> algorithms, and containers.
Here's my take: it seems in both cases you're arguing about contorting
something in the name of a relatively niche construction. In one case, it's
designing li
On 13/10/2010 04:15, so wrote:
I guess it is wording.
Hmm say...
Does Java come with a standard gui library? Yes.
Does C come with a standard gui library? No.
C didn't need a gui library to be successful, and didn't come with one.
On the other hand Java/C# have to have one, packed, and they do
On 13/10/2010 08:07, Peter Alexander wrote:
On 13/10/10 4:15 AM, so wrote:
Does Java come with a standard gui library? Yes.
Does C come with a standard gui library? No.
C didn't need a gui library to be successful, and didn't come with one.
On the other hand Java/C# have to have one, packed, an
On 13/10/2010 03:20, Eric Poggel wrote:
On 10/12/2010 10:11 PM, Michael Stover wrote:
Descent is a dead project, replaced by DDT which doesn't have a release.
Also, I'm running Linux at home and Mac at work, so VisualD won't do for
me. Poseidon is also Windows-only.
Descent is dead? The change
On 14/10/2010 13:30, Justin Johansson wrote:
Touted often around here is the term "systems language".
May we please discuss a definition to be agreed upon
for the usage this term (at least in this community) and
also have some agreed upon examples of PLs that might also
be members of the "set of
On 13/10/2010 17:27, retard wrote:
Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:41:05 +0200, Simen kjaeraas wrote:
Justin Johansson wrote:
The answer to the OP's question is simple: null's type is not
expressible in D.
That is a sad observation for a language that purports maturity beyond
the epoch of C/C++/Java e
On 10/29/10 13:19 CDT, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
I'm arguing that you do _not_ define those and that you let user code fend for
itself. If a programmer is foolish enough to write code with overly expensive
postblit constructors, then they're just shooting themselves in the foot.
I think it would
On 12/10/2010 14:14, Justin Johansson wrote:
Perhaps this topic could be posted as
"[challenge] Define just exactly what a bug is".
I trust this topic will yield some interesting conversation.
Cheers
Justin Johansson
A developer(s) designs a program/system/spec/whatever to exhibit certain
b
On Friday, October 29, 2010 10:51:17 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 10/29/10 12:21 CDT, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> > Honestly, what I expect to happen if constant-copy cost is expected is
> > that code won't be written that way and the code that expects a
> > constant-copy cost is going to be slow.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:15:09 +0300, dsimcha wrote:
1. Crufty old C/C++ programmers.
2. People who like dynamic languages but need more speed and ability to
do
low-level work. D is about the most flexible
close-to-the-metal/efficient/statically typed language out there.
3. Java/C# progr
On 2010-10-29 11:59:51 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu
said:
FWIW this matter is still tormenting me. It gridlocks work on ranges,
algorithms, and containers.
To recap:
1. Arbitrary cost copy construction:
+ Makes value types easy to define: just hook the copying code into this(this)
+ Is famil
On Friday, October 29, 2010 11:05:02 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> > As for eager-coping, it's a _value type_, of _course_ it's going to be
> > copied eagerly. ints, floats, bools, etc. _all_ copy eagerly. How can
> > you expect anything else? It's quite explicit that that's how value
> > types work
On 10/29/10 12:53 CDT, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
On Friday, October 29, 2010 10:15:09 dsimcha wrote:
== Quote from Andrei Alexandrescu (seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org)'s
Any tie-breaking arguments, I'm all ears.
Andrei
Uh...How about that if people want C++, they know where to find it? I
think
On 10/29/10 12:21 CDT, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
Honestly, what I expect to happen if constant-copy cost is expected is that code
won't be written that way and the code that expects a constant-copy cost is
going to be slow. Really, I'd say that in the general case, either arbitrary
copy constructio
On Friday, October 29, 2010 10:15:09 dsimcha wrote:
> == Quote from Andrei Alexandrescu (seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org)'s
>
> > Any tie-breaking arguments, I'm all ears.
> > Andrei
>
> Uh...How about that if people want C++, they know where to find it? I
> think familiarity to C++ programmers is
On 10/29/10 12:15 CDT, dsimcha wrote:
== Quote from Andrei Alexandrescu (seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org)'s
Any tie-breaking arguments, I'm all ears.
Andrei
Uh...How about that if people want C++, they know where to find it? I think
familiarity to C++ programmers is The Wrong Reason (TM) to al
On 10/29/10 12:18 CDT, dsimcha wrote:
== Quote from Andrei Alexandrescu (seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org)'s article
To recap:
1. Arbitrary cost copy construction:
+ Makes value types easy to define: just hook the copying code into
this(this)
+ Is familiar to programmers coming from C++
+ If it fai
On Friday, October 29, 2010 10:04:03 Jérôme M. Berger wrote:
> Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> > Personally, I think that both would be horrible. Having const is great,
> > and having non-nullable references could be great, but I sure wouldn't
> > want them to be the default. In addition to that, however
Bruno Medeiros:
> I'm not an expert on high-reliability/critical systems, but I had the
> impression that the majority of it was written in C (even if with
> restricting code guidelines). Or that at least, much more critical
> software is written in C than in Ada. Is that not the case?
MISRA C
On Friday, October 29, 2010 08:59:51 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 10/29/10 7:55 CDT, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
> > On 06/10/2010 17:57, dsimcha wrote:
> >> Vote++. IMHO the problem with arbitrary cost copy construction is that
> >> abstractions that are this leaky don't actually make people's lives
== Quote from Andrei Alexandrescu (seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org)'s article
> To recap:
> 1. Arbitrary cost copy construction:
> + Makes value types easy to define: just hook the copying code into
> this(this)
> + Is familiar to programmers coming from C++
> + If it fails, fails early, not surprisi
== Quote from Andrei Alexandrescu (seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org)'s
> Any tie-breaking arguments, I'm all ears.
> Andrei
Uh...How about that if people want C++, they know where to find it? I think
familiarity to C++ programmers is The Wrong Reason (TM) to allow arbitrary cost
copy construction.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:32:24 +0400, Bruno Medeiros
wrote:
On 29/10/2010 12:50, Denis Koroskin wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:40:35 +0400, Bruno Medeiros
wrote:
On 13/10/2010 18:48, Daniel Gibson wrote:
Andrei Alexandrescu schrieb:
On 10/13/10 11:16 CDT, Denis Koroskin wrote:
P.S. For thr
On Friday, October 29, 2010 05:57:15 Trass3r wrote:
> >> "Over time, more aspects of the C++ ABI may be accessible directly from
> >> D"
> >>
> >> Anything in sight?
> >> Maybe support for namespaces or some other minor thing?
> >
> > Currently, nothing new there.
>
> hmm anything else that ma
Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> Personally, I think that both would be horrible. Having const is great, and
> having non-nullable references could be great, but I sure wouldn't want them
> to
> be the default. In addition to that, however, having them as the default
> would
> make porting code from
On 07/10/2010 19:45, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 10/7/10 12:45 CDT, Michel Fortin wrote:
On 2010-10-07 12:34:33 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu
said:
My suggestion is that we deprecate TypeTuple and we call it AliasTuple
because that's really what it is - it's a tuple of stuff that can be
passed
On 10/29/10 7:55 CDT, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 06/10/2010 17:57, dsimcha wrote:
Vote++. IMHO the problem with arbitrary cost copy construction is that
abstractions that are this leaky don't actually make people's lives
simpler.
Abstractions (like value semantics) are supposed to make the code
ea
On 08/10/2010 00:42, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
On Thursday, October 07, 2010 16:39:15 Tomek Sowiński wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
It's a classic problem in computer science. Essentially what it comes down to is
that you can't determine when - or even if - a program will hal
On 06/10/2010 22:48, bearophile wrote:
Bruno Medeiros:
[About ADA] That "begin" "end" syntax is awful. I already think just "begin"
"end" syntax is bad, but also having to repeat the name of block/function/procedure/loop at the "end", that's
awful.<
If you take a look at my dlibs1, probably
Note: I've only seen this message now, since I am several threads late
in the (date-ordered) queue of unread NG threads, and this message
appeared as a new thread.
On 06/10/2010 21:00, bearophile wrote:
Bruno Medeiros:
[...mumble mumble...]
I don't like this term "undefined behavior"
[...mu
On 06/10/2010 17:34, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
or similar. However, a sealed range does not offer references, so trying
e.g.
swap(r1.front, r2.front);
will not work. This is a problem.
Why doesn't a sealed range offer references? Is it to prevent modifying
the elements being iterated?
(I
"Over time, more aspects of the C++ ABI may be accessible directly from
D"
Anything in sight?
Maybe support for namespaces or some other minor thing?
Currently, nothing new there.
hmm anything else that makes life with D <-> C++ easier?
On 06/10/2010 17:57, dsimcha wrote:
Vote++. IMHO the problem with arbitrary cost copy construction is that
abstractions that are this leaky don't actually make people's lives simpler.
Abstractions (like value semantics) are supposed to make the code easier to
reason
about. When an abstraction
On 29/10/2010 12:50, Denis Koroskin wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:40:35 +0400, Bruno Medeiros
wrote:
On 13/10/2010 18:48, Daniel Gibson wrote:
Andrei Alexandrescu schrieb:
On 10/13/10 11:16 CDT, Denis Koroskin wrote:
P.S. For threads this deep it's better fork a new one, especially when
cha
Am 29.10.2010 13:54, schrieb tls:
Jonathan M Davis Wrote:
On Friday 29 October 2010 03:06:56 dennis luehring wrote:
> Am 29.10.2010 11:07, schrieb Denis Koroskin:
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:58:56 +0400, dennis luehring
> > No one is talking about removing nullable references but rather
Am 29.10.2010 13:36, schrieb tls:
dennis luehring Wrote:
Am 29.10.2010 09:26, schrieb Roman Ivanov:
> They would be a great help in debugging programs, for example.
> NullPointerException is probably the most common error I see in Java.
> 95% of all times it gets thrown in some weird con
Jonathan M Davis Wrote:
> On Friday 29 October 2010 03:06:56 dennis luehring wrote:
> > Am 29.10.2010 11:07, schrieb Denis Koroskin:
> > > On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:58:56 +0400, dennis luehring
> > > No one is talking about removing nullable references but rather adding
> > > non-nullable types and m
Am 29.10.2010 13:41, schrieb tls:
dennis luehring Wrote:
Am 29.10.2010 11:07, schrieb Denis Koroskin:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:58:56 +0400, dennis luehring
> wrote:
>
>> Am 29.10.2010 09:26, schrieb Roman Ivanov:
>>> They would be a great help in debugging programs, for example.
>>
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:40:35 +0400, Bruno Medeiros
wrote:
On 13/10/2010 18:48, Daniel Gibson wrote:
Andrei Alexandrescu schrieb:
On 10/13/10 11:16 CDT, Denis Koroskin wrote:
P.S. For threads this deep it's better fork a new one, especially when
changing the subject.
I thought I did by ch
dennis luehring Wrote:
> Am 29.10.2010 11:07, schrieb Denis Koroskin:
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:58:56 +0400, dennis luehring
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Am 29.10.2010 09:26, schrieb Roman Ivanov:
> >>> They would be a great help in debugging programs, for example.
> >>> NullPointerException is probabl
On 13/10/2010 18:48, Daniel Gibson wrote:
Andrei Alexandrescu schrieb:
On 10/13/10 11:16 CDT, Denis Koroskin wrote:
P.S. For threads this deep it's better fork a new one, especially when
changing the subject.
I thought I did by changing the title...
Andrei
At least on my Thunderbird/Icedo
dennis luehring Wrote:
> Am 29.10.2010 09:26, schrieb Roman Ivanov:
> > They would be a great help in debugging programs, for example.
> > NullPointerException is probably the most common error I see in Java.
> > 95% of all times it gets thrown in some weird context, which gives you
> > no idea ab
Robert Jacques Wrote:
> Getting back to pure, one of the "big"
> advantages of functional languages are their ability to automatically
> parallelize themselves; and they use a work stealing runtime (aka tasks)
> to do this.
What functional has task? I switch in Meantime when D2 not staple t
Jonathan M Davis Wrote:
> On Thursday, October 28, 2010 15:46:23 Jesse Phillips wrote:
> > Jimmy Cao Wrote:
> > > Well, you can't have multiple alias this's right?
> > >
> > > So then, wouldn't it still only limit to 2 base classes?
> > >
> > > Well, you can't have multiple alias this's right?So
On Friday 29 October 2010 03:49:32 Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
> On 10/28/2010 04:45 PM, "Jérôme M. Berger" wrote:
> > Todd VanderVeen wrote:
> >> http://langpop.com/
> >>
> > Interesting that D comes first on Reddit with a reasonably
> >
> > comfortable margin ;)
>
> It's how they performed the
On Friday 29 October 2010 03:06:56 dennis luehring wrote:
> Am 29.10.2010 11:07, schrieb Denis Koroskin:
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:58:56 +0400, dennis luehring
> > No one is talking about removing nullable references but rather adding
> > non-nullable types and making them default. You could still
On 10/28/2010 04:45 PM, "Jérôme M. Berger" wrote:
Todd VanderVeen wrote:
http://langpop.com/
Interesting that D comes first on Reddit with a reasonably
comfortable margin ;)
It's how they performed the search. These stats are pure crap, because
"D" matches tons of miscellaneous stuf
Am 29.10.2010 11:07, schrieb Denis Koroskin:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:58:56 +0400, dennis luehring
wrote:
Am 29.10.2010 09:26, schrieb Roman Ivanov:
They would be a great help in debugging programs, for example.
NullPointerException is probably the most common error I see in Java.
95% of all
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:58:56 +0400, dennis luehring
wrote:
Am 29.10.2010 09:26, schrieb Roman Ivanov:
They would be a great help in debugging programs, for example.
NullPointerException is probably the most common error I see in Java.
95% of all times it gets thrown in some weird context, wh
Am 29.10.2010 09:26, schrieb Roman Ivanov:
They would be a great help in debugging programs, for example.
NullPointerException is probably the most common error I see in Java.
95% of all times it gets thrown in some weird context, which gives you
no idea about what happened. The result is a long
On 10/28/2010 1:40 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> Don wrote:
>> With the bugs I've fixed in the DMD source, I've seen very many cases
>> of 7, several cases of 2 and 6, and only one case of 8.
>> Many bugs are also caused by dangerous casts (where a pointer is cast
>> from one type to another).
>> But
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