Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 1 October 2014 06:09, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: Don't mean to be alarmist, but I'm posting this in case anyone else is like me and hasn't been paying attention since this news broke (AIUI) about a week ago. Apparently bash has

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 10/1/14 1:09 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Patches have been issued (and likely more to come from what I gather), so: FWIW, MacOS X now has an update for bash that fixes the bug, apparently came out last night. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6495 -Steve

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread JN via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 05:09:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Other OSes/distros are likely equally easy. Please, reply with examples to help ensure other people on the same OS/distro as you have no excuse not to update! I find it ironic that it's another big global security hole

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 13:41:43 UTC, JN wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 05:09:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: I find it ironic that it's another big global security hole about which Windows users don't even have to be concerned about. That's of course very true, since Windows

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 13:58:25 UTC, eles wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 13:41:43 UTC, JN wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 05:09:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: I find it ironic that it's another big global security hole about which Windows users don't even have to be

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:29:16 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: You would be surprised how some Fortune 500 companies are doing their serious work in 100% Windows servers. Sadly I need to comply with NDAs. Isn't NASDAQ enough?

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 05:09:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Apparently bash has it's own heartbleed now, dubbed shellshock. Does it affect dash? Also, how does one update software on linux? Last I checked, when new version is out, repository of the previous version becomes utterly

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:44:06 UTC, Kagamin wrote: Also, how does one update software on linux? Last I checked, when new version is out, repository of the previous version becomes utterly abandoned. A pity, on windows one can roll new software versions as long as they are maintained.

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:44:06 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 05:09:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Does it affect dash? No. It is a bashism, ie an extension specific to Bash. Busybox users are not concerned neither. A pity, on windows one can roll new

Re: Digger 1.0

2014-10-01 Thread Sean Kelly via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 09:35:20 UTC, Marco Leise wrote: So why would Apple be able to get away with 1GB on its just released iPhone 6? Maybe 1048576 kilobytes is enough for everyone? ARC is more memory efficient than mark sweep GC like Javascript uses. Though a lot of it is just

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 10/1/14 12:57 PM, Kagamin wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 15:48:58 UTC, Dicebot wrote: This claim is so strange I can't even understand what it is about. Which repositories get abandoned? Repositories of the not latest version of the OS. Because only latest version receives

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 16:57:07 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 15:45:26 UTC, eles wrote: Repositories of the not latest version of the OS. Because only latest version receives development. That is, if the OS doesn't have rolling updates. What is the difference

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 1 October 2014 18:12, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 10/1/14 12:57 PM, Kagamin wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 15:48:58 UTC, Dicebot wrote: This claim is so strange I can't even understand what it is about. Which

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 16:57:07 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 15:45:26 UTC, eles wrote: The first thing that I love in Linux is the centralized update. The downside is it's taken down centrally too, while distributed windows software continues to work

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 18:42:41 UTC, Kagamin wrote: A have linux mint 12 installation with mint4win (wubi), on linux mint forums I was told, that updating from the latest repository won't work. I would be grateful, if you explain, how to upgrade it to the latest version. Yeah,

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 10/01/2014 03:19 PM, Brad Roberts via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 10/1/2014 6:41 AM, JN via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 05:09:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Other OSes/distros are likely equally easy. Please, reply with examples to help ensure other

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 10/01/2014 02:42 PM, Kagamin wrote: A have linux mint 12 installation with mint4win (wubi), on linux mint forums I was told, that updating from the latest repository won't work. I sympathize:

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 10/01/2014 01:38 PM, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: One nice thing about Ubuntu is that they even give you access to future kernel versions through what they call HWE. In short, I can run a 14.04 LTS kernel on a 12.04 server, so that I'm able to use modern hardware and take

Re: [OT Security PSA] Shellshock: Update your bash, now!

2014-10-01 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 20:45:14 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: I suspect Mint may need to do things that way just as a manpower issue. Mint's a popular distro, but I get the impression it's development is a relatively small grassroots thing with much more limited resources than say

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Nordlöw
On Monday, 29 September 2014 at 10:49:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Back when I've first introduced RCString I hinted that we have a larger strategy in mind. Here it is. Slightly related :) https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/2573

How to build phobos docs for dlang.org

2014-10-01 Thread Mark Isaacson via Digitalmars-d
I am in the process of working on some documentation improvements for Phobos. I am running into an issue while testing. Namely, I do not know how to build the ddocs for Phobos in quite the way that dlang.org does. I can build them with: posix.mak -f DMD=TheRightOne html But everything is

Re: So what exactly is coming with extended C++ support?

2014-10-01 Thread Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 21:19:44 UTC, Ethan wrote: On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 08:48:19 UTC, Szymon Gatner wrote: Considered how many games (and I don't mean indie anymore, but for example Blizzard's Heartstone) are now created in Unity which uses not only GC but runs in Mono I

Re: So what exactly is coming with extended C++ support?

2014-10-01 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 21:19:44 UTC, Ethan wrote: On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 08:48:19 UTC, Szymon Gatner wrote: Considered how many games (and I don't mean indie anymore, but for example Blizzard's Heartstone) are now created in Unity which uses not only GC but runs in Mono I

Re: @safe pure nothrow compiler inference

2014-10-01 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 9/29/2014 7:40 AM, Daniel N wrote: On Monday, 29 September 2014 at 14:32:16 UTC, Atila Neves wrote: So somehow I missed that for template functions the attributes can be inferred. From what I can tell it has to do with having the body available. But when not using .di files, why can't it be

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/30/14, 9:10 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: On Monday, 29 September 2014 at 10:49:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: The policy is a template parameter to functions in Phobos (and elsewhere), and informs the functions e.g. what types to return. Consider: auto setExtension(MemoryManagementPolicy

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/29/14, 11:44 AM, Shammah Chancellor wrote: I don't like the idea of having to pass in template parameters everywhere -- even for allocators. Is there some way we could have allocator contexts? E.G. with( auto allocator = ReferencedCounted() ) { auto foo = setExtension(hello, txt);

Re: So what exactly is coming with extended C++ support?

2014-10-01 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 23:31:36 UTC, Cliff wrote: Not a GC specialist here, so maybe the thought arises - why not turn off automatic GC until such times in the code where you can afford the cost of it, then call GC.collect explicitly - essentially eliminating the opportunity for the GC

Re: How to build phobos docs for dlang.org

2014-10-01 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 06:29:46 UTC, Mark Isaacson wrote: I hereby volunteer to document whatever answer I am given. already done http://wiki.dlang.org/Building_DMD#Building_the_Docs

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/29/14, 3:11 PM, Freddy wrote: Internally we should have something like: --- template String(MemoryManagementPolicy mmp=gc){ /++ ... +/ } auto setExtension(MemoryManagementPolicy mmp = gc, R1, R2)(R1 path, R2 ext) if (...) { auto result=String!mmp(); /++ +/ } or

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/29/14, 1:07 PM, Uranuz wrote: 1. As far as I understand allocation and memory management of entities like class (Object), dynamic arrays and associative arrays is part of language/ runtime. What is proposed here is *fix* to standart library. But that allocation and MM happening via GC is

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/30/14, 7:07 AM, John Colvin wrote: Instead of adding a new template parameter to every function (which won't necessarily play nicely with existing IFTI and variadic templates), why not allow template modules? Nice idea, but let's try and explore possibilities within the existing rich

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/30/14, 9:49 AM, Johannes Pfau wrote: I guess my point is that although RC is useful in some cases output ranges / sink delegates / pre-allocated buffers are still necessary in other cases and RC is not the solution for _everything_. Agreed. As Manu often pointed out sometimes you do not

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/30/14, 10:33 AM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: Yeah, this echoes my concern. This looks not that much different, from a user's POV, from C++ containers' allocator template parameters. Yes I know we're not talking about*allocators* per se but about *memory management*, but I'm talking

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/30/14, 12:10 PM, Marc Schütz schue...@gmx.net wrote: I would argue that GC is at its core _only_ a memory management strategy. It just so happens that the one in D's runtime also comes with an allocator, with which it is tightly integrated. In theory, a GC can work with any (and multiple)

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/30/14, 11:06 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: 29-Sep-2014 14:49, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет: auto setExtension(MemoryManagementPolicy mmp = gc, R1, R2)(R1 path, R2 ext) if (...) { static if (mmp == gc) alias S = string; else alias S = RCString; S result; ... return

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/30/14, 6:53 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I generally like the idea, but my immediate concern is that it implies that every function that may deal with allocation is a template. This interferes with C/C++ compatibility in a pretty big way. Or more generally, the idea of a lib. Does this

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 9/30/14, 10:46 PM, Nordlöw wrote: On Monday, 29 September 2014 at 10:49:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Back when I've first introduced RCString I hinted that we have a larger strategy in mind. Here it is. Slightly related :) https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/2573

Re: How to build phobos docs for dlang.org

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14, 2:00 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 06:29:46 UTC, Mark Isaacson wrote: I hereby volunteer to document whatever answer I am given. already done http://wiki.dlang.org/Building_DMD#Building_the_Docs Shall we link or copy that to CONTRIBUTING.md?

Re: How to build phobos docs for dlang.org

2014-10-01 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 10:03:33 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 10/1/14, 2:00 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 06:29:46 UTC, Mark Isaacson wrote: I hereby volunteer to document whatever answer I am given. already done

std.utf.decode @nogc please

2014-10-01 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
lately when working on std.string I run into problems making stuff nogc as std.utf.decode is not nogc. https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13458 Also I would like a version of decode that takes the string not as ref. Something like: bool decode2(S,C)(S str, out C ret, out size_t

Re: How to build phobos docs for dlang.org

2014-10-01 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 10:14:26 UTC, Robert burner Schadek wrote: Shall we link or copy that to CONTRIBUTING.md? -- Andrei I will create a PR with a link to the Building DMD wiki right now. https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/2575

Re: std.utf.decode @nogc please

2014-10-01 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/2014 3:10 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote: Ideas, Suggestions ... ? any takers? You can use .byDchar instead, which is nothrow @nogc.

Re: std.experimental.logger formal review round 3

2014-10-01 Thread Kevin Lamonte via Digitalmars-d
I haven't tested it yet, but have two questions anyway: 1. I did not see any reference to the use of Clock.currTime(), which on the last round accounted for about 90% of the total time spent in a log call. Reference: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13433 . (This is the difference

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 09:52:46 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 9/30/14, 12:10 PM, Marc Schütz schue...@gmx.net wrote: I would argue that GC is at its core _only_ a memory management strategy. It just so happens that the one in D's runtime also comes with an allocator, with which

Re: std.utf.decode @nogc please

2014-10-01 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 10:51:25 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 10/1/2014 3:10 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote: Ideas, Suggestions ... ? any takers? You can use .byDchar instead, which is nothrow @nogc. thanks, I will try that.

Re: Creeping Bloat in Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d
On Sunday, 28 September 2014 at 12:09:50 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 9/27/14, 4:31 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:00:16PM +, bearophile via Digitalmars-d wrote: H. S. Teoh: If we can get Andrei on board, I'm all for killing off autodecoding.

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Marco Leise via Digitalmars-d
Am Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:14:43 -0700 schrieb Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com: On 9/28/2014 12:33 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2014-09-28 19:36, Walter Bright wrote: I suggest removal of stack trace for exceptions, but leaving them in for asserts. If you don't like the stack

Re: std.experimental.logger formal review round 3

2014-10-01 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 10:50:54 UTC, Kevin Lamonte wrote: I haven't tested it yet, but have two questions anyway: 1. I did not see any reference to the use of Clock.currTime(), which on the last round accounted for about 90% of the total time spent in a log call. Reference:

Re: std.utf.decode @nogc please

2014-10-01 Thread monarch_dodra via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 10:51:25 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 10/1/2014 3:10 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote: Ideas, Suggestions ... ? any takers? You can use .byDchar instead, which is nothrow @nogc. Being forced out of using exception just to be able to have the magic @nogc tag

Re: std.utf.decode @nogc please

2014-10-01 Thread monarch_dodra via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 10:10:51 UTC, Robert burner Schadek wrote: lately when working on std.string I run into problems making stuff nogc as std.utf.decode is not nogc. https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13458 Also I would like a version of decode that takes the string not as

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d
On 28/09/2014 23:00, Walter Bright wrote: I can't get behind the notion of reasonably certain. I certainly would not use such techniques in any code that needs to be robust, On 29/09/2014 04:04, Walter Bright wrote: I know I'm hardcore and uncompromising on this issue, but that's where I

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d
On 29/09/2014 10:06, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/29/2014 1:27 AM, Johannes Pfau wrote: In a daemon which logs to syslog or in a GUI application or a game an uncaught 'disk full exception' would go completely unnoticed and that's definitely a bug. Failure to respond properly to an

Re: std.experimental.logger formal review round 3

2014-10-01 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 10:50:54 UTC, Kevin Lamonte wrote: 2. We have Tid in the API. What about Fiber and Thread? If we can only pick one, I would vote for Thread rather than Tid, as Tid's currently have no way to be uniquely identified in a logging message. Reference:

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Sean Kelly via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 08:55:55 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 9/30/14, 9:10 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: Is this for exposition purposes or actually how you expect it to work? That's pretty much what it would take. The key here is that RCString is almost a drop-in replacement for

Re: @safe pure nothrow compiler inference

2014-10-01 Thread Atila Neves via Digitalmars-d
I wanted to do it for auto returning functions, since they require a function body. Is there any good reason to _not_ do it for auto return functions? Atila

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14 9:47 AM, Bruno Medeiros wrote: On 29/09/2014 19:58, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: Any uncaught exceptions are BY DEFINITION programming errors. Not necessarily. For some applications (for example simple console apps), you can consider the D runtime's default exception handler to be

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d
On 29/09/2014 19:58, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: Any uncaught exceptions are BY DEFINITION programming errors. Not necessarily. For some applications (for example simple console apps), you can consider the D runtime's default exception handler to be an appropriate way to respond to the

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Sean Kelly via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 08:55:55 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 9/30/14, 9:10 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: Quite honestly, I can't imagine how I could write a template function in D that needs to work with this approach. You mean write a function that accepts a memory management

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d
On 28/09/2014 00:15, Walter Bright wrote: This issue comes up over and over, in various guises. I feel like Yosemite Sam here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBhlQgvHmQ0 In that vein, Exceptions are for either being able to recover from input/environmental errors, or report them to the user

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d
On 29/09/2014 05:03, Sean Kelly wrote: I recall Toyota got into trouble with their computer controlled cars because of their idea of handling of inevitable bugs and errors. It was one process that controlled everything. When something unexpected went wrong, it kept right on operating, any

Re: [Semi OT] Language for Game Development talk

2014-10-01 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Max Klyga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9VCN6UkyQ A third talk (from another person) about related matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc He doesn't use RTTI, exceptions, multiple inheritance, STL, templates, and lot of other C++ stuff. On the other hand he writes

Re: std.experimental.logger formal review round 3

2014-10-01 Thread Marco Leise via Digitalmars-d
Am Wed, 01 Oct 2014 12:49:29 + schrieb Robert burner Schadek rburn...@gmail.com: maybe I should add a disableGetSysTime switch CLOCK_REALTIME_COARSE / CLOCK_REALTIME_FAST should be explored. On Linux you can't expect finer resolution than the kernel Hz, for FreeBSD I only found mention of

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors (checked exceptions)

2014-10-01 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d
On 29/09/2014 20:28, Sean Kelly wrote: Checked exceptions are good in theory but they failed utterly in Java. I'm not interested in seeing them in D. That is the conventional theory, the established wisdom. But the more I become experienced with Java, over the years, I've become convinced

Re: So what exactly is coming with extended C++ support?

2014-10-01 Thread Ethan via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 22:32:26 UTC, Sean Kelly wrote: Would delete on the D side work here? Or the more current destroy()? ie. is release of the memory a crucial part of the equation, or merely finalization? Destruction of an object is *far* more important than releasing memory.

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Bruno Medeiros: But if Walter is fixated on thinking that all the practical uses of D will be critical systems, or simple (ie, single-use, non-interactive) command-line applications, There's still some of way to go for D design to make it well fit for high integrity systems (some people

Re: [GDC] Evaluation order: Please update the dmd backend

2014-10-01 Thread Kenji Hara via Digitalmars-d
Now I'm working to fix issue 6620 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6620 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/4035 Kenji Hara 2014-04-01 20:49 GMT+09:00 Johannes Pfau nos...@example.com: I started fixing GDC bug #8 (*) which is basically that array op evaluation order

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d
On 01/10/2014 14:55, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 10/1/14 9:47 AM, Bruno Medeiros wrote: On 29/09/2014 19:58, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: Any uncaught exceptions are BY DEFINITION programming errors. Not necessarily. For some applications (for example simple console apps), you can consider

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14 10:36 AM, Bruno Medeiros wrote: On 01/10/2014 14:55, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 10/1/14 9:47 AM, Bruno Medeiros wrote: On 29/09/2014 19:58, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: Any uncaught exceptions are BY DEFINITION programming errors. Not necessarily. For some applications (for

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: No, this is lazy/incorrect coding. You don't want your user to see an indecipherable stack trace on purpose. So when they file a bug report are you going to also ask them to run the debugger so they capture

Re: std.experimental.logger formal review round 3

2014-10-01 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:24:52 UTC, Marco Leise wrote: Am Wed, 01 Oct 2014 12:49:29 + schrieb Robert burner Schadek rburn...@gmail.com: maybe I should add a disableGetSysTime switch CLOCK_REALTIME_COARSE / CLOCK_REALTIME_FAST should be explored. good pointer, but what about

Re: @safe pure nothrow compiler inference

2014-10-01 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 September 2014 at 14:40:34 UTC, Daniel N wrote: It can be done, Walter wanted to do it, but there was large resistance, mainly because library APIs would become unstable, possibly changing between every release. Huh? Templates are part of library API too, see std.algorithm. So

Re: [Semi OT] Language for Game Development talk

2014-10-01 Thread po via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:16:38 UTC, bearophile wrote: Max Klyga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9VCN6UkyQ A third talk (from another person) about related matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc He doesn't use RTTI, exceptions, multiple inheritance, STL,

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14 11:00 AM, Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 10/1/14, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: No, this is lazy/incorrect coding. You don't want your user to see an indecipherable stack trace on purpose. So when they file a bug report are

Re: [Semi OT] Language for Game Development talk

2014-10-01 Thread currysoup via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 15:17:33 UTC, po wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:16:38 UTC, bearophile wrote: Max Klyga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9VCN6UkyQ A third talk (from another person) about related matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc He doesn't

Re: std.experimental.logger formal review round 3

2014-10-01 Thread Marco Leise via Digitalmars-d
Am Wed, 01 Oct 2014 15:05:53 + schrieb Robert burner Schadek rburn...@gmail.com: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:24:52 UTC, Marco Leise wrote: Am Wed, 01 Oct 2014 12:49:29 + schrieb Robert burner Schadek rburn...@gmail.com: maybe I should add a disableGetSysTime switch

Re: [Semi OT] Language for Game Development talk

2014-10-01 Thread currysoup via Digitalmars-d
I certainly believe C++ style and it's community promote the idea of zero overhead abstractions and the kind of OOP style which _does_ cause cache misses.

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Oren Tirosh via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 19:10:19 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote: [...] I'm convinced this isn't necessary. Let's take `setExtension()` as an example, standing in for any of a class of similar functions. This function allocates memory, returns it, and abandons it; it gives up ownership of

Re: [Semi OT] Language for Game Development talk

2014-10-01 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
currysoup: At what point does he say it's difficult to code in a SoA style in C++? Perhaps a (part of) language more fit/helpful/nice for that purpose/use can be invented. Bye, bearophile

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Oren Tirosh: Bingo. Have some way to mark the function return type as a unique pointer. This does not imply full-fledged unique pointer type support in the language Let's have full-fledged memory zones tracking in the D type system :-) Bye, bearophile

Re: [Semi OT] Language for Game Development talk

2014-10-01 Thread Peter Alexander via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:16:38 UTC, bearophile wrote: Max Klyga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9VCN6UkyQ A third talk (from another person) about related matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc He doesn't use RTTI, exceptions, multiple inheritance, STL,

Re: std.experimental.logger formal review round 3

2014-10-01 Thread Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14 11:53 AM, Marco Leise wrote: Am Wed, 01 Oct 2014 15:05:53 + schrieb Robert burner Schadek rburn...@gmail.com: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:24:52 UTC, Marco Leise wrote: Am Wed, 01 Oct 2014 12:49:29 + schrieb Robert burner Schadek rburn...@gmail.com: maybe I should

Re: FOSDEM'15 - let us propose a D dev room!!!

2014-10-01 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
Unfortunately, D developer room was rejected: Like every year, we received quite a lot more proposals than we have rooms at our disposal. Unfortunately, we were not able to schedule your proposed room this year. The list of accepted rooms can be found on our website. We hope you'll agree

Re: [Semi OT] Language for Game Development talk

2014-10-01 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
Am 01.10.2014 17:40, schrieb currysoup: I certainly believe C++ style and it's community promote the idea of zero overhead abstractions and the kind of OOP style which _does_ cause cache misses. C++ does not imply OOP. And the zero overhead abstractions are a culture heritage from C as it

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14, 6:52 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 08:55:55 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 9/30/14, 9:10 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: Is this for exposition purposes or actually how you expect it to work? That's pretty much what it would take. The key here is that RCString

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14, 7:03 AM, Sean Kelly wrote: So let the user supply a scratch buffer that will hold the result? With the RC approach we're still allocating, they just aren't built-in slices, correct? Correct. -- Andrei

Re: How to build phobos docs for dlang.org

2014-10-01 Thread Mark Isaacson via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 09:00:51 UTC, Robert burner Schadek wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 06:29:46 UTC, Mark Isaacson wrote: I hereby volunteer to document whatever answer I am given. already done http://wiki.dlang.org/Building_DMD#Building_the_Docs I saw this yesterday

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14, 8:48 AM, Oren Tirosh wrote: On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 19:10:19 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote: [...] I'm convinced this isn't necessary. Let's take `setExtension()` as an example, standing in for any of a class of similar functions. This function allocates memory, returns it, and

Re: How to build phobos docs for dlang.org

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14, 10:11 AM, Mark Isaacson wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 09:00:51 UTC, Robert burner Schadek wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 06:29:46 UTC, Mark Isaacson wrote: I hereby volunteer to document whatever answer I am given. already done

Re: FOSDEM'15 - let us propose a D dev room!!!

2014-10-01 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d
On 1 October 2014 17:21, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Unfortunately, D developer room was rejected: Like every year, we received quite a lot more proposals than we have rooms at our disposal. Unfortunately, we were not able to schedule your proposed room this

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Oren T via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 17:13:38 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 10/1/14, 8:48 AM, Oren Tirosh wrote: On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 at 19:10:19 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote: [...] I'm convinced this isn't necessary. Let's take `setExtension()` as an example, standing in for any of a

Re: FOSDEM'15 - let us propose a D dev room!!!

2014-10-01 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
I think I will attend anyway as a casual visitor, can have an informal D meetup at least.

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 10/1/14, 10:25 AM, Oren T wrote: The idea is that the unique property is very short-lived: the caller immediately assigns it to a pointer of the appropriate policy: either RC or GC. This keeps the callee agnostic of the chosen policy and does not require templating multiple versions of the

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 02:51:08AM -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 9/30/14, 11:06 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: 29-Sep-2014 14:49, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет: auto setExtension(MemoryManagementPolicy mmp = gc, R1, R2)(R1 path, R2 ext) if (...) { static if (mmp ==

Re: How to build phobos docs for dlang.org

2014-10-01 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 05:11:47PM +, Mark Isaacson via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 09:00:51 UTC, Robert burner Schadek wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 06:29:46 UTC, Mark Isaacson wrote: I hereby volunteer to document whatever answer I am given. already

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 17:53:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 02:51:08AM -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 9/30/14, 11:06 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: 29-Sep-2014 14:49, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет: auto

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Oren T via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 17:33:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 10/1/14, 10:25 AM, Oren T wrote: The idea is that the unique property is very short-lived: the caller immediately assigns it to a pointer of the appropriate policy: either RC or GC. This keeps the callee agnostic of

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Oren T via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 17:33:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 10/1/14, 10:25 AM, Oren T wrote: The idea is that the unique property is very short-lived: the caller immediately assigns it to a pointer of the appropriate policy: either RC or GC. This keeps the callee agnostic of

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Sean Kelly via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 17:53:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: But Sean's idea only takes strings into account. Strings aren't the only allocated resource Phobos needs to deal with. So extrapolating from that idea, each memory management struct (or whatever other aggregate

Re: RFC: moving forward with @nogc Phobos

2014-10-01 Thread Cliff via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 18:37:50 UTC, Sean Kelly wrote: On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 17:53:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: But Sean's idea only takes strings into account. Strings aren't the only allocated resource Phobos needs to deal with. So extrapolating from that

Re: Program logic bugs vs input/environmental errors

2014-10-01 Thread Paolo Invernizzi via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 at 14:46:50 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 10/1/14 10:36 AM, Bruno Medeiros wrote: This is a grey area that I think reasonable people can correctly call a bug if they so wish, despite the intentions of the developer. Correctly? In a discussion, It's amazing

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