Hello dsimcha,
What the heck do you need generics for when you have real templates?
To me, generics seem like just a lame excuse for templates.
smaller object code? OTOH a good implementation will noice when I can fold
together several template expansions
== Quote from BCS (n...@anon.com)'s article
Hello dsimcha,
What the heck do you need generics for when you have real templates?
To me, generics seem like just a lame excuse for templates.
smaller object code? OTOH a good implementation will noice when I can fold
together several template
Hello dsimcha,
== Quote from BCS (n...@anon.com)'s article
Hello dsimcha,
What the heck do you need generics for when you have real templates?
To me, generics seem like just a lame excuse for templates.
smaller object code? OTOH a good implementation will noice when I can
fold together
On Wed, 20 May 2009 15:08:43 +1200, Daniel Keep
daniel.keep.li...@gmail.com wrote:
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but... MS didn't design .NET to
make you happy. *ducks*
-- Daniel
Windos is a very user orientated os and to make the user happy they try to
get all devs writing
On Wed, 20 May 2009 05:40:37 +1200, BCS a...@pathlink.com wrote:
Reply to Lutger,
BCS wrote:
...
all LINQ is is a set of standard nameing conventions and sugar. I Add
a Where function to some SQL tabel object and you get the above as
well.
...
Not really, LINQ is 'sugar' for the
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Tim Matthews tim.matthe...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 20 May 2009 15:08:43 +1200, Daniel Keep
daniel.keep.li...@gmail.com wrote:
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but... MS didn't design .NET to
make you happy. *ducks*
-- Daniel
Windos is a very
grauzone wrote:
Oh, and how it indents multiline function calls is completely retarded.
And every time I try to autocomplete a templated function call, it
insists on inserting ALL of the template arguments, even when they're
supposed to be derived.
This is why I don't like IDEs. Plus, every
在 Mon, 18 May 2009 16:01:56 +0800，bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com
写道:
Yigal Chripun:
first, typos - eclipse has a built-in spell checker so all those
lenght will be underlined with an orange squiggly line.
A much better solution is to use size (or even len) everywhere in D,
that
On Tue, 19 May 2009 00:37:21 +1200, davidl dav...@nospam.org wrote:
From a commercial basis for Walter, it may be easier to glue a C#
frontend against the DMD backend to create a native C# compiler. Waiting
D to be a successful language requires a longer time. And people needs
higher
== Quote from grauzone (n...@example.net)'s article
So what would you suggest to make the things you mentioned work? That was:
1. templated virtual functions
2. finding all derived classes (from other source files)
The problem is that D wants to support dynamic linking on the module
level,
Daniel Keep wrote:
BCS wrote:
Hello Brad,
My other problem with IDE's, such as eclipse, is that it's such an all
or nothing investment. You can't really just use part of it. You
must buy in to it's editor, it's interface with your SCM, it's
scriptures of indentation style, etc. Trying to
Robert Fraser wrote:
Daniel Keep wrote:
P.S. No, I can't just use make; I'm on Windows. I really, REALLY don't
want to have to deal with that bullshit again.
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html
My current build script is cobbled together from Perl, Make, and DSSS.
It sounds
Jacob Carlborg wrote:
Daniel Keep wrote:
Actually, Descent isn't perfect, either. For example, it mandates that
cases in a switch MUST be aligned with the braces. What's more fun is
that you can't override it until AFTER it's corrected YOU.
Just file a ticket.
The relevant ticket[1] is a
Hello grauzone,
So what would you suggest to make the things you mentioned work? That
was:
1. templated virtual functions
2. finding all derived classes (from other source files)
The problem is that D wants to support dynamic linking on the module
level, more or less.
I still wonder how
Hello Yigal,
BCS wrote:
Hello Yigal,
second, D needs to update its stone age compilation model copied
from
C++. I'm not saying we need to copy the C# or Java models exactly,
but
we need to throw away the current legacy model.
Java has convenient Jar files: you can package everything into
grauzone wrote:
Oh, and how it indents multiline function calls is completely retarded.
And every time I try to autocomplete a templated function call, it
insists on inserting ALL of the template arguments, even when they're
supposed to be derived.
Hmm... At least for Descent there are
davidl wrote:
?? Mon, 18 May 2009 16:01:56 +0800??bearophile
bearophileh...@lycos.com :
Yigal Chripun:
first, typos - eclipse has a built-in spell checker so all those
lenght will be underlined with an orange squiggly line.
A much better solution is to use size (or even len)
Reply to Andrei,
I've repeatedly failed to figure out the coolness of C#, and would
appreciate a few pointers. Or references. Or delegates :o).
The coolness of c# is that (in order, IMHO) 1) the tools are world class,
2) the support is back by MS, 3) the docs are great, and 4) the language
Frits van Bommel wrote:
Jacob Carlborg wrote:
Daniel Keep wrote:
Actually, Descent isn't perfect, either. For example, it mandates that
cases in a switch MUST be aligned with the braces. What's more fun is
that you can't override it until AFTER it's corrected YOU.
Just file a ticket.
The
BCS wrote:
Reply to Andrei,
I've repeatedly failed to figure out the coolness of C#, and would
appreciate a few pointers. Or references. Or delegates :o).
The coolness of c# is that (in order, IMHO) 1) the tools are world
class, 2) the support is back by MS, 3) the docs are great, and 4)
Reply to Ary,
BCS wrote:
Reply to Andrei,
I've repeatedly failed to figure out the coolness of C#, and would
appreciate a few pointers. Or references. Or delegates :o).
The coolness of c# is that (in order, IMHO) 1) the tools are world
class, 2) the support is back by MS, 3) the docs are
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM, BCS a...@pathlink.com wrote:
I think this will work:
int delegate(int delegate(ref T)) Where(T[] array, bool delegate(T) dg)
{
struct Ret
{
T[] Array;
bool delegate(T) Dg;
int opApply(int delegate(ref T) idg)
{
BCS wrote:
Reply to Ary,
BCS wrote:
Reply to Andrei,
I've repeatedly failed to figure out the coolness of C#, and would
appreciate a few pointers. Or references. Or delegates :o).
The coolness of c# is that (in order, IMHO) 1) the tools are world
class, 2) the support is back by MS, 3)
Reply to Ary,
BCS wrote:
Reply to Ary,
Have you seen Linq? That's *amazing*!
LINQ is the only thing c# has the is a notable language feature, but
I don't think it adds anything that puts it much above the rest of
the crowd in any way.
You can deal with expression ASTs and do really cool
BCS wrote:
Reply to Ary,
BCS wrote:
Reply to Ary,
Have you seen Linq? That's *amazing*!
LINQ is the only thing c# has the is a notable language feature, but
I don't think it adds anything that puts it much above the rest of
the crowd in any way.
You can deal with expression ASTs and do
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
The IDE is excellent. The docs are reasonable once you figure out how
they are laid out.
I really don't get what's so great about VS. After using JDT (Eclipse
Java), I find Vs kind of lacking. IMO, MS invests a lot of resources in
areas to sell VS to companies
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Robert Fraser
fraseroftheni...@gmail.com wrote:
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
The IDE is excellent. The docs are reasonable once you figure out how
they are laid out.
I really don't get what's so great about VS. After using JDT (Eclipse Java),
I find Vs kind
Reply to Bill,
But it is sad that you have to pay even
more money to make the thing you paid so much money for in the first
place more usable.
VS/MS/etc is a for profit ecosystem. They assume that your system and software
is paid for by your boss and he's spending 10-20 time that much on
davidl wrote:
From a commercial basis for Walter, it may be easier to glue a C#
frontend against the DMD backend to create a native C# compiler.
Mono has AOT compilation. On the other hand, I've experienced more ICE
per minute with Mono than with dmd. This is partially due to dmd's near
Christopher Wright wrote:
BCS wrote:
Reply to Andrei,
I've repeatedly failed to figure out the coolness of C#, and would
appreciate a few pointers. Or references. Or delegates :o).
The coolness of c# is that (in order, IMHO) 1) the tools are world
class, 2) the support is back by MS, 3)
Andrei Alexandrescu escribió:
Christopher Wright wrote:
BCS wrote:
Reply to Andrei,
I've repeatedly failed to figure out the coolness of C#, and would
appreciate a few pointers. Or references. Or delegates :o).
The coolness of c# is that (in order, IMHO) 1) the tools are world
class, 2)
在 Tue, 19 May 2009 00:14:50 +0800，BCS a...@pathlink.com 写道:
Reply to Andrei,
I've repeatedly failed to figure out the coolness of C#, and would
appreciate a few pointers. Or references. Or delegates :o).
The coolness of c# is that (in order, IMHO) 1) the tools are world
class, 2) the
grauzone wrote:
Oh, and how it indents multiline function calls is completely retarded.
And every time I try to autocomplete a templated function call, it
insists on inserting ALL of the template arguments, even when they're
supposed to be derived.
This is why I don't like IDEs. Plus, every
grauzone wrote:
Just because it doesn't work on your shitty (SCNR) platform, it doesn't
mean it's wrong. On Unix, there's a single ABI for C, and linking Just
Works (TM).
do YOU want D to succeed?
that shitty platform is 90% of the market.
But I kind of agree. The most useful thing about
Yigal Chripun wrote:
grauzone wrote:
Just because it doesn't work on your shitty (SCNR) platform, it
doesn't mean it's wrong. On Unix, there's a single ABI for C, and
linking Just Works (TM).
do YOU want D to succeed?
that shitty platform is 90% of the market.
But I kind of agree. The
BCS escribió:
Hello Georg,
So, in a way, Microsoft may be right in assuming that (especially when
their thinking anyway is that everybody sits at a computer that's
totally dedicated to the user's current activity anyhow) preposterous
horse power is (or, should be) available at the code editor.
Ary Borenszweig wrote:
BCS escribió:
Hello Georg,
So, in a way, Microsoft may be right in assuming that (especially when
their thinking anyway is that everybody sits at a computer that's
totally dedicated to the user's current activity anyhow) preposterous
horse power is (or, should be)
Hello Ary,
BCS escribió:
I think that any real programing project now days (regardless of
language) needs tools to help the programmer. The difference between
D and C# is that with D you /can/ get away without an IDE and with C#
you won't get much at all done without one.
I can't agree with
Yigal Chripun:
IMO, designing the language to support this better work-flow is a good
decision made by MS, and D should follow it instead of trying to get
away without an IDE.
Do you have some more focused suggestions, then?
Bye,
bearophile
Yigal Chripun wrote:
IMO, designing the language to support this better work-flow is a good
decision made by MS, and D should follow it instead of trying to get
away without an IDE.
Support or enable.. sure. Require, absolutely not.
I've become convinced that the over-reliance on
I disagree on all your points.
read inside for comments.
Brad Roberts wrote:
Yigal Chripun wrote:
IMO, designing the language to support this better work-flow is a good
decision made by MS, and D should follow it instead of trying to get
away without an IDE.
Support or enable.. sure.
Hello Brad,
My other problem with IDE's, such as eclipse, is that it's such an all
or nothing investment. You can't really just use part of it. You
must buy in to it's editor, it's interface with your SCM, it's
scriptures of indentation style, etc. Trying to deviate from any of
it is such a
bearophile wrote:
Yigal Chripun:
IMO, designing the language to support this better work-flow is a good
decision made by MS, and D should follow it instead of trying to get
away without an IDE.
Do you have some more focused suggestions, then?
Bye,
bearophile
first and foremost, the
Hello Yigal,
second, D needs to update its stone age compilation model copied from
C++. I'm not saying we need to copy the C# or Java models exactly, but
we need to throw away the current legacy model.
Java has convenient Jar files: you can package everything into nice
modular packages with
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 7:15 PM, BCS n...@anon.com wrote:
second, D needs to update its stone age compilation model copied from
C++. I'm not saying we need to copy the C# or Java models exactly, but
we need to throw away the current legacy model.
Java has convenient Jar files: you can package
== Quote from Jarrett Billingsley (jarrett.billings...@gmail.com)'s article
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 7:15 PM, BCS n...@anon.com wrote:
second, D needs to update its stone age compilation model copied from
C++. I'm not saying we need to copy the C# or Java models exactly, but
we need to throw
Yigal Chripun wrote:
I disagree on all your points.
read inside for comments.
Brad Roberts wrote:
Yigal Chripun wrote:
IMO, designing the language to support this better work-flow is a good
decision made by MS, and D should follow it instead of trying to get
away without an IDE.
Support
BCS Wrote:
Has anyone ever tried building a c# project without an IDE?
Yes.
I don't even know if it can be done.
It is actually very easy to do:
http://www.zeusedit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2518
and it is even easier if you have a simple 'one file', throw
away project:
Ary Borenszweig wrote:
BCS escribió:
Hello Georg,
So, in a way, Microsoft may be right in assuming that (especially when
their thinking anyway is that everybody sits at a computer that's
totally dedicated to the user's current activity anyhow) preposterous
horse power is (or, should be)
BCS wrote:
Hello Brad,
My other problem with IDE's, such as eclipse, is that it's such an all
or nothing investment. You can't really just use part of it. You
must buy in to it's editor, it's interface with your SCM, it's
scriptures of indentation style, etc. Trying to deviate from any
Robert Fraser wrote:
Daniel Keep wrote:
rebuild MyProgram
I will give you this, though: D's toolchain could use improvement in
more complex builds. But it's still a hell of a lot simpler than
anything C#'s toolchain can do.
Have you tried DSSS? It's surprisingly feature-rich, and its
Daniel Keep wrote:
rebuild MyProgram
I will give you this, though: D's toolchain could use improvement in
more complex builds. But it's still a hell of a lot simpler than
anything C#'s toolchain can do.
Have you tried DSSS? It's surprisingly feature-rich, and its syntax is a
lot simpler
Jussi Jumppanen wrote:
BCS Wrote:
Has anyone ever tried building a c# project without an IDE?
Yes.
I don't even know if it can be done.
It is actually very easy to do:
http://www.zeusedit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2518
I look at that, and all I can say is: if that's easy,
On Mon, 18 May 2009 12:43:34 +1000, Daniel Keep wrote:
You realise that in order to be using rebuild, I HAVE to also have DSSS,
right? I'm pretty sure Gregor stopped releasing rebuild-only packages
quite some time ago.
Not to trumpet my own horn, but have you considered my build tool
Daniel Keep wrote:
P.S. No, I can't just use make; I'm on Windows. I really, REALLY don't
want to have to deal with that bullshit again.
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html
My current build script is cobbled together from Perl, Make, and DSSS.
It sounds ugly, but when I tried it
Robert Fraser wrote:
Daniel Keep wrote:
P.S. No, I can't just use make; I'm on Windows. I really, REALLY don't
want to have to deal with that bullshit again.
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html
Oops, wrong one:
So what would you suggest to make the things you mentioned work? That was:
1. templated virtual functions
2. finding all derived classes (from other source files)
The problem is that D wants to support dynamic linking on the module
level, more or less.
I still wonder how serialization is
Oh, and how it indents multiline function calls is completely retarded.
And every time I try to autocomplete a templated function call, it
insists on inserting ALL of the template arguments, even when they're
supposed to be derived.
This is why I don't like IDEs. Plus, every time you type
BCS wrote:
Hello Yigal,
second, D needs to update its stone age compilation model copied from
C++. I'm not saying we need to copy the C# or Java models exactly, but
we need to throw away the current legacy model.
Java has convenient Jar files: you can package everything into nice
modular
Yigal Chripun wrote:
BCS wrote:
Hello Yigal,
second, D needs to update its stone age compilation model copied from
C++. I'm not saying we need to copy the C# or Java models exactly, but
we need to throw away the current legacy model.
Java has convenient Jar files: you can package everything
Georg Wrede wrote:
If we were smart with D, we'd find out a way of leapfrogging this
thinking. We have a language that's more powerful than any of C#, Java
or C++, more practical than Haskell, Scheme, Ruby, co, and more
maintainable than C or Perl, but which *still* is Human Writable.
More
Hello Georg,
So, in a way, Microsoft may be right in assuming that (especially when
their thinking anyway is that everybody sits at a computer that's
totally dedicated to the user's current activity anyhow) preposterous
horse power is (or, should be) available at the code editor.
I think that
bearophile wrote:
BCS:
The c# solution works well if you will *only* develop from the IDE but is
a total pain as soon as you need to work with non-language aware tools.
I think Microsoft thinks that an IDE is a part of a modern language.
So they have tried to design a language that almost
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