Adam,
I do not care for Stoet and Geary's attempt to explain the correlation
they found, but their statistics are harder to dismiss. Anyone arguing
for quantitative measures such as equality of gender outcome will need
to address this quantitative evidence and explain how OSGeo might be
able
Vicky,
this recent article in The Economist discusses decreasing workforce
participation of women in India, very much in-line with your experience:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/07/05/why-india-needs-women-to-work
Kind regards,
Ben.
On 13/08/18 15:57, Vicky Vergara wrote:
But I am
I think I'm safe in assessing that all of us contributing to this
discussion (and probably many more lurking) believe in promoting
diversity. We might disagree on relevance of specific scientific papers,
but I feel we should not be distracted by our differences and rather
should focus on what
Hey folks,
It is great to see so much discussion about what our standard as a
community are for defining a successfully event.
I would suggest that we codify our goals towards diversity and inclusion
into the Code of Conduct (CoC). This would make it clearer about what
values we as a community
Thank you Adam. I believe listening and talking directly is even more
important in the case of events such as FOSS4G-Asia where part of the
culture is showing respect for each other. It takes much more of a
boots-on-the-ground approach, to talk directly and plan in those cases.
Looking
Hi all
I appreciate this topic arising. I appreciate the efforts of the FOSS4G Dar
committee; and the reasons for their decisions. I also appreciate that the
FOSS4G Asia LOC have a different operating environment and look forward to
hearing about their drivers. And I appreciate discussion about
Thank you for sharing these personal stories Vicky.
There are so many different cultural factors at our FOSS4G events around
the world.
How can we make sure that FOSS4G events are both diverse and inclusive?
I think the first step is always to try contacting the FOSS4G local
committee
I would agree with Jonathan's point of view. Yes, Asian's team put together
unfortunate list of keynoters (from one point of view). Dar team did the
same the opposite way around and apparently fully consciously (nothing
against any of the speakers, this is the LOC decision).
Leave it for now and
Hi all
I went to the last FOSS4G Asia in Hyderabad, India, within IIIT university
premises.
There I met wonderful students.
I was actually impressed with a particular female student, very bright, and
with lots of ideas to tell.
I invited her to eat out.
She could not go out of the university,
On 12/08/18 21:14, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
No, this is not a dismissal based on opinions. It is based on facts.
This paper falls into the "correlation does not imply causation"
fallacy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Yes, but lack of correlation refutes
On 13/08/18 07:31, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:
in my opinion, we shall distinguish between equality and equity. Even supposing that
there were countries where there is equality (but this is not true: think simply to the
"gender gap", i.e. the difference in salary between men and women), the
> Reyna
> Inviato: domenica 12 agosto 2018 16:54:23
> A: jonathan-li...@lightpear.com
> Cc: OSGeo Discussions
> Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G
>
> I understand it is difficult to see your own privileges and biases[1].
> That's why I always pre
_
Da: Discuss per conto di María Arias de Reyna
Inviato: domenica 12 agosto 2018 16:54:23
A: jonathan-li...@lightpear.com
Cc: OSGeo Discussions
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G
I understand it is difficult to see your own privileges and biases[1].
That's why I always p
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G
I understand it is difficult to see your own privileges and biases[1].
That's why I always prefer that a PoC talks about racism instead of
me. But I can still talk about inequality regarding women. Remember
that 90% of said here applies to all PoC
I understand it is difficult to see your own privileges and biases[1].
That's why I always prefer that a PoC talks about racism instead of
me. But I can still talk about inequality regarding women. Remember
that 90% of said here applies to all PoC. And that WoC suffer this
from both sides.
So I'm
That's the thing: they jump into that conclusion with biased
prejudices. Right now, we don't have equal opportunity anywhere in the
world. Not women, not PoC. You are proving me right, they are biased!
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/169/Strawman-Fallacy
On 12.08.2018 11:28, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Peter Baumann
> wrote:
>> +1 for every word in Jonathan's excellently worded message. Science at its
>> heart
>> is open (!) to any and all provable insights (and even conjectures expressed,
>> and all of that
El dom., 12 ago. 2018 11:58, Jonathan Moules
escribió:
> > No, this is not a dismissal based on opinions. It is based on facts.
> This paper falls into the "correlation does not imply causation"
> fallacy:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
>
> You will find
> No, this is not a dismissal based on opinions. It is based on facts.
This paper falls into the "correlation does not imply causation"
fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
You will find it is rarely the case that a peer-reviewed scientific
paper in
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Peter Baumann
wrote:
> +1 for every word in Jonathan's excellently worded message. Science at its
> heart
> is open (!) to any and all provable insights (and even conjectures expressed,
> and all of that may be disproven of course), which works only if not
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 11:34 PM, Jonathan Moules
wrote:
>> Let me tell you something: having legal rights doesn't mean you have
>> equal opportunities. Those studies are falling into the wrong
>> conclusions probably because bias of the researchers.
>
>
> Apologies, but that's a general
+1 for every word in Jonathan's excellently worded message. Science at its heart
is open (!) to any and all provable insights (and even conjectures expressed,
and all of that may be disproven of course), which works only if not driven by
dogmas wiping out unwanted results upfront as "wrong
Let me tell you something: having legal rights doesn't mean you have
equal opportunities. Those studies are falling into the wrong
conclusions probably because bias of the researchers.
Apologies, but that's a general dismissal of a peer-reviewed scientific
paper, seemingly because you don't
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 10:36 PM, Jonathan Moules
wrote:
>> This is a common mistake. If you aim for the already declining percentage
>> of women, you will not get far. You have to aim for the percentage of
>> population. The fact that only 37% of our industry is female is itself a
>> problem we
> This is a common mistake. If you aim for the already declining
percentage of women, you will not get far. You have to aim for the
percentage of population. The fact that only 37% of our industry is
female is itself a problem we have to address.
...
> But going back to the topic of this
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Jonathan Moules
wrote:
>> Once we have a 50% of speakers that are women (even 40%), we can start
>> saying that having a full keynoter line of women speakers is no diversity.
>
> At the risk of asking a question that I know isn't meant to be asked - why
> 50%? Or
> Once we have a 50% of speakers that are women (even 40%), we can
start saying that having a full keynoter line of women speakers is no
diversity.
At the risk of asking a question that I know isn't meant to be asked -
why 50%? Or "even 40%"? Surely the % should be around the same as the
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Jonathan Moules
wrote:
> Glass-half-full observation: In a topic talking about the FOSS4G Asia
> diversity, no-one has commented on the commendable range of racial diversity
> in those keynotes.
>
> As to gender in keynotes, a Devils Advocate would point out
Glass-half-full observation: In a topic talking about the FOSS4G Asia
diversity, no-one has commented on the commendable range of racial
diversity in those keynotes.
As to gender in keynotes, a Devils Advocate would point out there is no
gender diversity in the 2018 Dar es Salaam keynote
I agree this is a good topic to bring into the open, and not an easy
one. For what I have seen, FOSS4G Asia organization is doing a good
job, this is just a hard subject to address. Even if that keynote
lineup was full of women (like in main FOSS4G!) we still have to check
about the rest of
Hey Mark, good on you for voicing publicly. Our ability to discuss openly
is a strength of our community, and one we are learning to use responsibly.
I saw your tweet yesterday, but find the discussion list more useful for
internal discussion such as this.
It is a hard balance between requesting
Hi All,
I’ve really agonised over whether to send this email. First of which, being the
imminent final preparations for FOSS4G taking up a lot of time, but also
whether it’s appropriate for me in my role of chair of FOOS4G to offer public
critique of regional events. It is in this vein that
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