CPHennessy wrote:
[...]
I don't think many of the developers on OOo bother to read or take part
in discuss@openoffice.org anymore, rather taking to irc #openoffice.org
or dev@openoffice.org and/or the individual development mailing lists
and issuezilla tracker to communicate with eachother.
CPHennessy wrote:
On Mon December 12 2005 11:05, + Caolan McNamara wrote: [...]
Actually from my own perspective I didn't mind the article though I
reckon things are more positive than they appear. What I would be
wary of though is that discuss@openoffice.org is a dysfunctional
list and not
Jacqueleine wrote:
Please remember that we are all *real* people on the other end of these
It would be really nice if the people responding to things filed in
Issuezilla acted the same way. [The comments in the comma as decimal
separator issues are just one example.]
xan
jonathon
--
This is
On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 11:35:34 AM -0800, Jonathon Blake
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Jacqueleine wrote:
Please remember that we are all *real* people on the other end of
these
It would be really nice if the people responding to things filed in
Issuezilla acted the same way. [The comments
Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
As far as I know, in the five years it has been available as open
source, not one contribution to the program has come from amateurs.
Further to muddy the waters, when I drafted this, I wrote core program --
if we're counting
M. Fioretti wrote:
[...]
What I mean is only that FOSS developers (as well as very advanced
users like you and me) *do* have the duty to remember in any moment
that with enough eyes all bugs are shallow, if there's the source,
you too can fix it and similar raymondisms have much less meaning
Andrew Brown wrote:
Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
As far as I know, in the five years it has been available as open
source, not one contribution to the program has come from amateurs.
Further to muddy the waters, when I drafted this, I wrote core program --
On 12/12/05, Gianluca Turconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, if you want to show to the readers the truth of an axiom
like: Open Source as a way of producing software has limitations you
can *show* examples, but you don't *demonstrate* anything.
It's a common rhetorical technique.
As
Gianluca Turconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:dnjv0v$gc9$2
@sea.gmane.org:
Of course, if you want to show to the readers the truth of an axiom
like: Open Source as a way of producing software has limitations you
can *show* examples, but you don't *demonstrate* anything.
I think we
On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 10:22 +, Andrew Brown wrote:
There was in my original article a paragraph saying that the volunteer
work was in general much more impressive outside the English community. I
don't know why this is true, and I don't want to be invidious by putting
up a list of
Andrew Brown wrote:
Gianluca Turconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:dnjv0v$gc9$2
@sea.gmane.org:
Of course, if you want to show to the readers the truth of an axiom
like: Open Source as a way of producing software has limitations you
can *show* examples, but you don't *demonstrate*
On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 20:43:38 PM +0100, Henrik Sundberg
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
I finally understand your point! Thank you for describing it so
well.
Thanks!
So the question is: How can an open source development be improved
to give the normal user the best experience?
Maybe, in the
On Lun 12 décembre 2005 21:32, M. Fioretti wrote:
Maybe, in the case of corporate funded projects (oo.o and similar) the
paid developers could be forced by their employer to directly spend
time *talking* with end users in human ways (= not issuezilla and
similar).
Honestly, in case of a
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 20:05:16 +0100
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've found this bug in OO.o, please fix it soon, as it is it makes my
work so much slower and we can't afford proprietary SW. Imagine how
idiotic it would have been to say please fix this yourself if it
bothers you so
Hello Enrique.
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 20:31:06 +
Enrique Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, you are right. I am _not_ saying that OpenOffice.org is buggy
because it is opensource, not at all. In fact my criticism to
OpenOffice.org bugfixing/developing model is, basically, that it is
too
Gianluca Turconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Then, there is the little question he has written on The Guardian
Unlimited. When you write on a newspaper (site), you
cannot not write /nearly all/ or /some part/ of the truth.
You must write *the* truth because you're not
On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 10:15:55 AM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 20:05:16 +0100
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've found this bug in OO.o, please fix it soon, as it is it makes my
work so much slower and we can't afford proprietary SW. Imagine
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 20:42:01 +0100
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What you think you've seen in OOo or Novell Evolution are only clues
and not evidences of a general problem.
No, sorry again. Please remember to not take this personally, but
think you've seen my foot. I have been
On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 11:11:00 AM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One of the things I have bee hearing for years on these lists from
the actual volunteers (not just users like me) is exactly the fact
that it is almost impossible to
On Dim 11 décembre 2005 11:55, M. Fioretti wrote:
On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 11:11:00 AM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Same thing for Mozilla or Gnome, I think.
Yes, of course the same problems in any big project.
OO.o is competing with all the other foss projects for
On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 10:22 +, Andrew Brown wrote:
But, again, almost all of this is catchup. Supplying dictionaries, spell-
checkers, proper documentation, user support, and so on, is tremendously
important, ad, when it is complete, will bring the program up to the
level that MS Office
On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 11:55 +0100, M. Fioretti
I have just seen these complaints posted several times here and in
other fora by several people who want(ed) to be real active
volunteers, couldn't managed to be heard and eventually gave up or did
it outside the official OOo community. It's
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:48:08 -, Gianluca Turconi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 20:42:01 +0100
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What you think you've seen in OOo or Novell Evolution are only clues
and not evidences of a general problem.
No, sorry again. Please
2005/12/11, Nicolas Mailhot [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Dim 11 décembre 2005 11:55, M. Fioretti wrote:
On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 11:11:00 AM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Same thing for Mozilla or Gnome, I think.
Yes, of course the same problems in any big project.
OO.o is
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:22:34 + (UTC)
Andrew Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But, again, almost all of this is catchup. Supplying dictionaries,
spell- checkers, proper documentation, user support, and so on, is
tremendously important, ad, when it is complete, will bring the
program up to
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:41:31 +0100
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I couldn't care less which one is more important. Why change the
subject? The problem is how naive it is to assume that:
a) you could fix the source yourself is still a valid and polite
answer to give to free
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 15:22:44 -
Alexandro Colorado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gianluca, this answer is normal, and I guess that is the answer you
are going to get from every open source component. Open source is a
meritocracy so managers and technologist are not really considerate
unless
On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 18:38:34 PM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
There's is no evidence the open source model can scale for desktop
applications. At the same time, there's no evidence it cannot.
We're talking about assumptions (clues) and not evidences.
90% or more of the
2005/12/11, M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 18:38:34 PM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
There's is no evidence the open source model can scale for desktop
applications. At the same time, there's no evidence it cannot.
We're talking about assumptions
On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 19:52:46 PM +0100, Henrik Sundberg
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
2005/12/11, M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
90% or more of the current users of: web browsers, email clients,
office productivity suites, IM clients, MP3/video players and similar
are and will remain unable
I finally understand your point! Thank you for describing it so well.
So the question is: How can an open source development be improved to
give the normal user the best experience?
(normal = normal in the complete, non discriminating, user group)
I think this ought to be no more difficult for
Hi Gianluca
Gianluca Turconi wrote:
I've just read the article present on your news site:
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,16376,1660763,00.html?gusrc=rss
and I have to say it includes misleading and false assertions,
which I consider harmful for both my professionalism and my
On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 14:29:56 PM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Well, Marco, I've to object vigorously to your statement because the
article's author has committed the worst error in pure Logic, this
is to say he has elevated a concept from the particular level (the
OOo
Gianluca Turconi wrote:
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 07:50:39 +0100
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Said this, I find the rest of the article objective. It says things
that are actual problems and needed to be said, things which I too was
planning to write sometime.
Well, Marco, I've to
Hello Enrique,
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 11:39:51 +
Enrique Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
Last but not least, I must agree that bugfixing depends on good QA
team. I do not know the internals of this process in OOo. I do not
know if currently QA members are Sun employers or volunteers.
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:20051210065039.GQ31183
@mclink.it:
Most software has similar irritations. But complex open source
projects seem uniquely badly placed to fix them. They rely on a very
small group of programmers relative to the user base, and who have
no direct
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:00:53 +
Enrique Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think we are talking in the sphere of Pure Logic. It is a
reasonable scientific procedure to take a significant and
representative example and trying to extract conclusions from that
(with all reserves about
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:02:33 +0100
M. Fioretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
So, I don't know about Andrew, he'll surely speak for himself, but as
far as *I* am concerned I sure can elevate that article to the
general level concept status, as I've gathered enough evidence
myself in
On 12/10/05, Gianluca Turconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Indeed, the Issuezilla's Issue is perhaps as old as the OOo project
and, IMHO, it doesn't depend on the open source method (as it may seem
from the article) but on the working flow used inside Sun
(StarDivision) and how to conciliate it
Gianluca Turconi wrote:
Uhm... I have to point out a thing: I'm a very pragmatic man and I have
had a law education. Thus, as I've written to Marco, clues are not
evidences for me. They can be used in discussions like these ones, but
they have not any real validity when we want to confirm an
Gianluca Turconi wrote:
What I have read in Mr. Brown's article is an attempt to demolish open
source assumptions (as he wrote) with other personal assumptions.
What I read in Mr. Brown's article was a recognition that the
open-source development model championed by Eric S. Raymonds in
On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 15:13:48 PM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Indeed, the Issuezilla's Issue is perhaps as old as the OOo
project and, IMHO, it doesn't depend on the open source method (as
it may seem from the article) but on the working flow used inside
Sun
On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 17:23:12 PM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
What I mean is this: before using personal or niche assumptions
(per languages or per users group's perceptions, ...) in public
texts that have a great resounding impact around the web, let's do
thing in a
On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 16:13:47 PM +0100, Gianluca Turconi
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
What you think you've seen in OOo or Novell Evolution are only clues
and not evidences of a general problem.
No, sorry again. Please remember to not take this personally, but
think you've seen my foot. I have
Gianluca Turconi wrote:
What I mean is this: before using personal or niche assumptions (per
languages or per users group's perceptions, ...) in public texts that
have a great resounding impact around the web, let's do thing in a
professional way:
I think these lists are for more or less
Enrique wrote:
Currently, my impression is that the only channel to OOo developers is
isuezilla reporting and votes.
I came to the conclusion that votes for issues don't count about two years ago.
The issue with the second or third highest number of votes had several
comments from developers
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