[Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Ned Deily
I'm afraid there is going to be a small deluge of very confused users who will end up needing to install Distribute but only when they eventually figure out why some packages with C extensions mysteriously no longer install after they upgrade to python 2.6.3. For example, following the packag

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/3 Ned Deily : > I'm afraid there is going to be a small deluge of very confused users > who will end up needing to install Distribute but only when they > eventually figure out why some packages with C extensions mysteriously > no longer install after they upgrade to python 2.6.3.  For exam

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: > 2009/10/3 Ned Deily : >> I'm afraid there is going to be a small deluge of very confused users >> who will end up needing to install Distribute but only when they >> eventually figure out why some packages with C extensions mysteriously >> n

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Ned Deily
In article <94bdd2610910030649r431a5638y7c8b5332934f...@mail.gmail.com>, Tarek Ziad? wrote: > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: > > 2009/10/3 Ned Deily : > >> I'm afraid there is going to be a small deluge of very confused users > >> who will end up needing to install Distr

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread sstein...@gmail.com
On Oct 3, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Ned Deily wrote: This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something (and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away. What would you suggest? S ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-S

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/3 Ned Deily : > This is not a good experience for users.  Unless I'm missing something > (and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away. It's unfortunate that this comes in a minor release. But at the same time we can hardly avoid fixing bugs just because setuptools isn't ge

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Ned Deily wrote: > > This is not a good experience for users.  Unless I'm missing something > (and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away. Make sure to understand that the way setuptools patches distutils makes it very sensible to any change made

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote: > ...makes it very sensible to any change made in distutils, even backward > compatibles ones like in the 2.6 branch s/backward compatibles/ bug fixes/ ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread sstein...@gmail.com
On Oct 3, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: 2009/10/3 Ned Deily : This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something (and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away. How about some sort of an announcement/warning on the setuptools site itself? I

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Ned Deily
In article <94bdd2610910031309w61d72dcdo8faab4964bf67...@mail.gmail.com>, Tarek Ziadé wrote: > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Ned Deily wrote: > > This is not a good experience for users.  Unless I'm missing something > > (and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away. > Make su

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Sridhar Ratnakumar
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 14:17:50 -0700, Ned Deily wrote: On what other platforms is this likely to be a problem? Windows *? Linuxes? If that can be identified, if necessary the distributors of Python installers can be informed so they can inform their users (note, that python.org is itself a dist

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/3 Ned Deily : > That's fine but they're not going to know about Distribute unless they > stumble across discussions like this. They are going to ask around, and somebody will know. Most reasonably, they are going to ask the maker of the module they are trying to install, and say "Hey your

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-04 Thread kiorky
Hi, for the folks using virtualenv-distribute, i forked it to make the last 0.6.3 install instead of 0.6.1. See : http://bitbucket.org/kiorky/virtualenv-distribute/ Install it: easy_install http://distfiles.minitage.org/public/externals/minitage/virtualenv-distribute-1.3.5dev-1.zip Ned Deily a

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-04 Thread P.J. Eby
At 03:49 PM 10/3/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote: Notice that this has been fixed in Ubuntu already with a patched version of setuptools Is the patch or an equivalent already in the setuptools tracker? And if not, can someone please post it there? Thanks.

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Jeff Rush
Lennart Regebro wrote: > 2009/10/3 Ned Deily : >> This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something >> (and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away. > > It's unfortunate that this comes in a minor release. Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened.

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/5 Jeff Rush : > Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened.  And *especially* > without any announcement on python.org or mention on the > python-committers list of something this major. Well "this major"... It's a bug fix that breaks a setuptools monkey-patch. But yes, it was di

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Ronald Oussoren
On Monday, 05 October, 2009, at 11:53AM, "Lennart Regebro" wrote: >2009/10/5 Jeff Rush : >> Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened.  And *especially* >> without any announcement on python.org or mention on the >> python-committers list of something this major. > >Well "this major"

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Ned Deily
In article <4ac9bef5.7080...@taupro.com>, Jeff Rush wrote: > Lennart Regebro wrote: > > 2009/10/3 Ned Deily : > >> This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something > >> (and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away. > > > > It's unfortunate that this comes i

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: >>Nobody will adopt it until they are forced to. This unfortunate bug >>means people are forced to quicker than expected. I don't think that's >>an actual problem. > > This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in replacement for

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/5 Ronald Oussoren : > This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in replacement for > 2.6.2 but requires the replacement of another component as well.  That can be > a problem in organizations with strict configuration management where you > cannot install new software withou

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:40 AM, Jeff Rush wrote: Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially* without any announcement on python.org or mention on the python-committers list of something this major. [...] Considering that 2.6.3 is messed up in other ways, like displa

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn
On Monday,2009-10-05, at 7:38 , Barry Warsaw wrote: I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3 /and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen asap. If that's not possible, then we m

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:40 AM, Jeff Rush wrote: > >> Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened.  And *especially* >> without any announcement on python.org or mention on the >> python-committers list of something this major. > > [...] >

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn wrote: > On Monday,2009-10-05, at 7:38 , Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's >> possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3 >> /and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread sstein...@gmail.com
On Oct 5, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: 2009/10/5 Ronald Oussoren : This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in replacement for 2.6.2 but requires the replacement of another component as well. That can be a problem in organizations with strict configuration manag

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:21 PM, sstein...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Oct 5, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: > >> 2009/10/5 Ronald Oussoren : >>> >>> This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in replacement for >>> 2.6.2 but requires the replacement of another component as well.

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Ronald Oussoren wrote: For beginners this issue is a showstopper that they cannot resolve without help. I'm a relative beginner to distutils/setuptools/distribute, but a long time configuration/build/packaging professional. You're mistaken if you think that any of these technologies are sui

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Ronald Oussoren wrote: This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in replacement for 2.6.2 but requires the replacement of another component as well. That can be a problem in organizations with strict configuration management where you cannot install new software without going to

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread sstein...@gmail.com
On Oct 5, 2009, at 9:38 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3 /and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen asap. If that's not possible, then we mig

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 5, 2009, at 10:25 AM, K. Richard Pixley wrote: Python packaging and distribution right now is not for beginners or the faint of heart. If we're honest with ourselves, it's not for experienced developers either. Do you really even want to have to /think/ about this stuff? -Barry

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/5 Barry Warsaw : > I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's > possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3 > /and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen asap. PJE seems interested in this, as he asked about a patch, so ma

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/5 K. Richard Pixley : > This would be a problem if distribute were in general release.  It's not. >  It's clearly a development branch which is intended to move quickly. No, this is incorrect. The 0.6-branch is not intended to move quickly, it is in bugfix mode. It is moving quickly only b

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: > 2009/10/5 Barry Warsaw : >> I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's >> possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3 >> /and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen asap. >

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Barry Warsaw wrote: On Oct 5, 2009, at 10:25 AM, K. Richard Pixley wrote: Python packaging and distribution right now is not for beginners or the faint of heart. If we're honest with ourselves, it's not for experienced developers either. Do you really even want to have to /think/ about this st

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Lennart Regebro wrote: 2009/10/5 K. Richard Pixley : This would be a problem if distribute were in general release. It's not. It's clearly a development branch which is intended to move quickly. No, this is incorrect. The 0.6-branch is not intended to move quickly, it is in bugfix mo

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/5 K. Richard Pixley : > Is that about right? Nope. 0.6 is a fork of setuptools, providing bugfixes (and also 3.1 support). It's completely backwards compatible with setuptools. 0.7 is a development branch, which aims to refactor setuptools into something or (rather several somethings) tha

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Jeremy Sanders
K. Richard Pixley wrote: > Ronald Oussoren wrote: >> For beginners this issue is a showstopper that they cannot resolve >> without help. >> > I'm a relative beginner to distutils/setuptools/distribute, but a long > time configuration/build/packaging professional. You're mistaken if you > think

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Alex Grönholm
Jeremy Sanders kirjoitti: K. Richard Pixley wrote: Ronald Oussoren wrote: For beginners this issue is a showstopper that they cannot resolve without help. I'm a relative beginner to distutils/setuptools/distribute, but a long time configuration/build/packaging professional.

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn
On Monday,2009-10-05, at 8:11 , Tarek Ziadé wrote: So are you saying that in an environment where you are allowed to install Python 2.6.3, you will not be allowed to install an hypothetical setuptools-0.6c10 (or a Distribute 0.6.3) ? Yes, situations like that can come up. For example, I gu

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn
I'm sorry to follow-up to my own post, but I realized that I didn't make something clear: the current Tahoe-LAFS source distribution comes with its own copy of setuptools, so even if PJE releases a new version of setuptools or if we patch that copy to work-around this problem, we're going t

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Alex Grönholm wrote: There is a lack of consensus regarding how exactly they should work. If we are having this much trouble deciding how a third party tool should work, it is certainly not going to be merged into distutils until those issues have been resolved. Distutils is what houses (or sh

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/5 Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn : > I'm sorry to say that this event has already made me more hesitant to jump > from setuptools to Distribute, just because some of the maintainers of > Distribute have posted saying that they don't think this kind of thing is > such a big deal.  I prefer to use pack

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Hanno Schlichting
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Ned Deily wrote: > I've opened an issue of the main Python issue tracker outlining the > problem, primarily for the benefit of affected users who search the > tracker: > >   http://bugs.python.org/issue7064 If I understand the comments on this ticket correctly, Tar

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread P.J. Eby
At 11:53 AM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: 2009/10/5 Jeff Rush : > Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially* > without any announcement on python.org or mention on the > python-committers list of something this major. Well "this major"... It's a bug fix tha

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread P.J. Eby
At 07:25 AM 10/5/2009 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote: How do I delete a package using easy_install? http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#uninstalling-packages ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.o

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread P.J. Eby
At 04:57 PM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: 2009/10/5 Barry Warsaw : > I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's > possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3 > /and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen asap. PJE seem

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread P.J. Eby
At 06:53 PM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: Possibly if you somehow think it's the Distribute teams fault that a bugfix in Python ended up breaking setuptools. If it would have been better not to fix that bug, then the blame reasonably goes to the Python core developers, not the Distribut

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread K. Richard Pixley
P.J. Eby wrote: At 07:25 AM 10/5/2009 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote: How do I delete a package using easy_install? http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#uninstalling-packages That doesn't remove a package. It simply removes the package from the search path by one method in hope

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread P.J. Eby
At 07:53 PM 10/5/2009 +0200, Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I understand the comments on this ticket correctly, Tarek has changed distutils in a way so the last setuptools release continues to work, correct? Yes. And a very nice fix, done quite quickly. Thank you Tarek. So based on the curren

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn
I'm struggling to articulate something here. When the maintainer of the stable branch of a platform that I rely on says "The fact that upgrading to our recent stable release will break this critical functionality is so-and-so's fault, not ours." this reduces my confidence in that maintaine

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Hanno Schlichting
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, P.J. Eby wrote: > At 07:53 PM 10/5/2009 +0200, Hanno Schlichting wrote: >> >> If I understand the comments on this ticket correctly, Tarek has changed >> distutils in a way so the last setuptools release continues to work, >> correct? > > Yes.  And a very nice fix,

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread P.J. Eby
At 11:29 AM 10/5/2009 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote: P.J. Eby wrote: At 07:25 AM 10/5/2009 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote: How do I delete a package using easy_install? http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#uninstalling-packages That doesn't remove a package. It simply removes

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Paul Moore
2009/10/5 K. Richard Pixley : > I'm recent to python packaging and distribution, so let me see if I've put > this together right from my reading of the various web pages involved over > the weekend. > > Distutils is currently part of the standard python library.  As such, it's > released with pytho

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Sridhar Ratnakumar
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:21:28 -0700, P.J. Eby wrote: And there's nothing all that special about setuptools' subclassing of build_ext; in fact, if you look back in the archives here, other people have done equivalent subclassing to support dynamic library building. I haven't checked their c

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Bill Janssen
Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn wrote: > I'm struggling to articulate something here. When the maintainer of > the stable branch of a platform that I rely on says "The fact that > upgrading to our recent stable release will break this critical > functionality is so-and-so's fault, not ours." this reduces m

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Paul Moore
2009/10/5 Jeremy Sanders : > As a general question, is there any planned project to improve the state of > distutils or replace it? It appears to be one of the weakest parts of the > Python system and needs replacing with something much cleaner, better > documented and more powerful. Tarek's worki

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Alex Grönholm
Bill Janssen kirjoitti: Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn wrote: I'm struggling to articulate something here. When the maintainer of the stable branch of a platform that I rely on says "The fact that upgrading to our recent stable release will break this critical functionality is so-and-so's fault, not

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Bill Janssen
Alex Grönholm wrote: > Does your bug still exist in Distribute? If so, please report it at > http://bitbucket.org/tarek/distribute/ (assuming that bitbucket is > operational, which it currently isn't) Sorry, Alex, I don't know about Distribute, don't (particularly) care. If you care, test for it

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Alex Grönholm
Bill Janssen kirjoitti: Alex Grönholm wrote: Does your bug still exist in Distribute? If so, please report it at http://bitbucket.org/tarek/distribute/ (assuming that bitbucket is operational, which it currently isn't) Sorry, Alex, I don't know about Distribute, don't (particularly)

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Ronald Oussoren
On 5 Oct, 2009, at 16:25, K. Richard Pixley wrote: Ronald Oussoren wrote: For beginners this issue is a showstopper that they cannot resolve without help. I'm a relative beginner to distutils/setuptools/distribute, but a long time configuration/build/packaging professional. You're mist

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Ronald Oussoren
On 5 Oct, 2009, at 16:37, K. Richard Pixley wrote: Ronald Oussoren wrote: This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in replacement for 2.6.2 but requires the replacement of another component as well. That can be a problem in organizations with strict configuration management

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Ronald Oussoren
On 5 Oct, 2009, at 13:54, Tarek Ziadé wrote: On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Ronald Oussoren > wrote: Nobody will adopt it until they are forced to. This unfortunate bug means people are forced to quicker than expected. I don't think that's an actual problem. This is a problem, it means 2.

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread David Cournapeau
Tarek Ziadé wrote: > The proper answer is : Setuptools is on the top of Distutils and has > to evolve with it. > And since it monkey patches it, it has to be changed when a Distutils > release breaks it. I want to note that the issue here is not monkey-patching, it is subclassing the command class

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread Alex Grönholm
P.J. Eby kirjoitti: At 11:53 AM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: 2009/10/5 Jeff Rush : > Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially* > without any announcement on python.org or mention on the > python-committers list of something this major. Well "this major

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-05 Thread David Cournapeau
K. Richard Pixley wrote: > Alex Grönholm wrote: >> There is a lack of consensus regarding how exactly they should work. >> If we are having this much trouble deciding how a third party tool >> should work, it is certainly not going to be merged into distutils >> until those issues have been resolve

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Ned Deily
An update on the immediate issue: after discussion elsewhere, it was decided that there were enough other problems with 2.6.3 to warrant a quick release of 2.6.4. Tarek has checked in a change to distutils to unbreak the setuptools currently out in the field. If all goes well, 2.6.4 should b

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Chris Withers
kiorky wrote: Hi, for the folks using virtualenv-distribute, i forked it to make the last 0.6.3 install instead of 0.6.1. See : http://bitbucket.org/kiorky/virtualenv-distribute/ Install it: easy_install http://distfiles.minitage.org/public/externals/minitage/virtualenv-distribute-1.3.5dev-1.z

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/6 Chris Withers : > kiorky wrote: >> >> Hi, >> for the folks using virtualenv-distribute, i forked it to make the last >> 0.6.3 >> install instead of 0.6.1. >> >> See : >> http://bitbucket.org/kiorky/virtualenv-distribute/ >> >> Install it: >> >> easy_install >> >> http://distfiles.minitage

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/6 Lennart Regebro : > I think it's a fork of Virtualenv, no? Which uses a fork of distribute. :) I meant that it uses a fork of setuptools, obviously -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 _

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread kiorky
It's just a fork of virtualenv to use distribute. It does not use a fork of distribute but distribute itself ;) Lennart Regebro a écrit : > 2009/10/6 Lennart Regebro : >> I think it's a fork of Virtualenv, no? Which uses a fork of distribute. :) > > I meant that it uses a fork of setuptools, obvi

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread kiorky
Anyway, it's released now on pypi as virtualenv-distribute-1.3.4.2. The code is also merged in florian branch and it has been decided that's the main repository. kiorky a écrit : > It's just a fork of virtualenv to use distribute. > It does not use a fork of distribute but distribute itself ;) >

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/6 kiorky : > Anyway, it's released now on pypi as virtualenv-distribute-1.3.4.2. > > The code is also merged in florian branch and it has been decided that's the > main repository. What is the florian branch, and in general, could you provide some more info. Your emails are very cryptic. :

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Bill Janssen
Ronald Oussoren wrote: > Installing distribute is therefore not problematic for most people, if > they know that the project exists. The fact that distribute is a > seperate project from setuptools can be a problem for people: > installing a bugfix release for a software product that we're alrea

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread kiorky
Hi Lennart, If i read 'virtualenv-distribute 1.3.4.2 on pypi' I can do some googling or even do some Pypi searching for 'virtualenv-distribute'. Thus, the first link found may be [1]. On this link, the second sentence is: """ The fork was started by Philip Jenvey at http://bitbucket.org/pjen

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Hanno Schlichting
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Bill Janssen wrote: > For me, it's more a matter of "OS X 10.6 already comes with setuptools; > how can I mitigate the impact of this buggy unmaintained package on the > systems I'm building to deploy on OS X?".  Adding distribute to the mix, > however good it is, d

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread P.J. Eby
At 09:20 AM 10/6/2009 +0300, Alex Grönholm wrote: P.J. Eby kirjoitti: At 11:53 AM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: 2009/10/5 Jeff Rush : > Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially* > without any announcement on python.org or mention on the > python-committer

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/6 P.J. Eby : > Yes, but that's got nothing to do with the bug that's been being discussed. >  The same change bit pywin32, and it doesn't use setuptools at all. True. The problem was a badly documented interface, which meant people used it in one way, but a bug fix assumed another, and *ka

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Sridhar Ratnakumar
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:25:04 -0700, kiorky wrote: """ The fork was started by Philip Jenvey at http://bitbucket.org/pjenvey/virtualenv-distribute/ and this version by Florian Schulze lives at http://bitbucket.org/fschulze/virtualenv-distribute/ """ [1] - http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtuale

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Kevin Teague
On Oct 6, 2009, at 10:36 AM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Bill Janssen wrote: >> For me, it's more a matter of "OS X 10.6 already comes with setuptools; >> how can I mitigate the impact of this buggy unmaintained package on the >> systems I'm building to deploy on OS X

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Regebro wrote: > 2009/10/5 Jeff Rush : >> Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially* >> without any announcement on python.org or mention on the >> python-committers list of something this major. > > Well "this maj

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread David Cournapeau
Tres Seaver wrote: > > Bugfixes which break backward compatibility in "minor" relaseses are > "major" fouls, period. Sure, but what does backward compatibility even mean for distutils ? Not much, as any non trivial extension needs to use undocumented implementation details. > As PJE points out, t

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-06 Thread Lennart Regebro
2009/10/7 Tres Seaver : > The fact that the bugfix (to distutils) was committed by folks who are > *alos* pusing a fork to setuptools is what raises the eyebrows here. Eh... why? Tarek has become the lead for Python packaging programs and is trying hard to fix the sad state of Python packaging. It

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-07 Thread Ned Deily
On Oct 4, 2009, at 10:07 , P.J. Eby wrote: At 03:49 PM 10/3/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote: Notice that this has been fixed in Ubuntu already with a patched version of setuptools Is the patch or an equivalent already in the setuptools tracker? And if not, can someone please post it there? Th

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-07 Thread Florian Schulze
On 07.10.2009, at 01:08, Sridhar Ratnakumar wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:25:04 -0700, kiorky wrote: """ The fork was started by Philip Jenvey at http://bitbucket.org/pjenvey/virtualenv-distribute/ and this version by Florian Schulze lives at http://bitbucket.org/fschulze/virtualenv-di

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-07 Thread Florian Schulze
On 07.10.2009, at 01:08, Sridhar Ratnakumar wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:25:04 -0700, kiorky wrote: """ The fork was started by Philip Jenvey at http://bitbucket.org/pjenvey/virtualenv-distribute/ and this version by Florian Schulze lives at http://bitbucket.org/fschulze/virtualenv-di

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-07 Thread sstein...@gmail.com
On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Florian Schulze wrote: This way one - who stumbled upon the bitbucket site - does not have to pull the source tree and look in docs/index.rst in order to get the URL to the bug tracker. (I had a bug to report a couple of days). The launchpad bugtracker is for v

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-07 Thread Florian Schulze
On 07.10.2009, at 16:21, sstein...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Florian Schulze wrote: This way one - who stumbled upon the bitbucket site - does not have to pull the source tree and look in docs/index.rst in order to get the URL to the bug tracker. (I had a bug to report

Re: [Distutils] Package install failures in 2.6.3 - setuptools vs Distribute

2009-10-07 Thread sstein...@gmail.com
On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Florian Schulze wrote: On 07.10.2009, at 16:21, sstein...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Florian Schulze wrote: This way one - who stumbled upon the bitbucket site - does not have to pull the source tree and look in docs/index.rst in order to