Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On September 2, 2015 2:12:33 AM GMT+02:00, Gregory Nowak wrote: >On Wed, Sep 02, 2015 at 01:59:55AM +0200, poitr pogo wrote: >> i'm against moderation. I'm against allowing enemies to sit at a campfire of refugees that have just been kicked out of their home. >I also realize

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Tobias Hunger writes: [...] >> on the same grounds, because systemd covers so much ground >> and does so many things (that *it should not* be doing) that any good >> engineer who wants to design an alternative will see a lot of insane >> features and immediately say

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Hello Mr. Zini, On 09/01/2015 07:14 PM, Enrico Zini wrote: > On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 10:09:40AM +0200, Jaromil wrote: >> [...] I hope Enrico has time to have a look and perhaps include >> the patch upstream. >> > Unfortunately, most likely I will not: I only have time to work on nodm > when a

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015, KatolaZ wrote: > Go conquer the world with your little software-engineering > masterpiece, but please leave us poor cavemen in peace. You are very kind to call them "systemd-lovers" and call us cavemen. You are conceding a lot to people who are too full of themselves to even

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Wed, Sep 02, 2015 at 01:59:55AM +0200, poitr pogo wrote: > i'm against moderation. > if you find his posts disturbing use killfile instead. I have to agree here. He's not spamming, he's expressing his unbounded enthusiasm for all things systemd (call it trolling if you want). Frankly, I've

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

It wont be perfect until we have Powerbash. SWS ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

i'm against moderation. if you find his posts disturbing use killfile instead. -- regards piotr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 10:04:13AM +0200, Tobias Hunger wrote: [cut] > > Which concrete problems did you, Jude and whoever solve recently? > I know this is hard to believe for you, but all those efforts are intended to avoid a bloated software, whose conception has nothing to do with the most

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015, tilt! wrote: > Speaking of which, my patch for "nodm" is online at [1]. > > Kind regards, > T. > > Links: > > [1] "nodm" Devuan package source 0.11-1.3~sls1. > URL: https://git.devuan.org/tilt/nodm Great :^) I hope Enrico has time to have a look and perhaps include the

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Tobias Hunger writes: > Am 31.08.2015 21:50 schrieb "KatolaZ" : >> The sole fact that you consider anything else than systemd as "a >> lesser" option[...] > > Hi KatolaZ, > > there are several inits (plus surrounding code like startup scripts) that >

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015, Tobias Hunger wrote: > And yes, any init system that needs hacks like the one tilt! is doing > for his display manager is a lesser one. so also busybox then, are they lesser userland utilities ? and uclibc or mulib, are they lesser libc implementations? how about Hurd or

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

I'll refrain quoting the rest of the reply, which contains some obvious manipulations. On Tue, 01 Sep 2015, Tobias Hunger wrote: >Please blog as much as you can so that developers can find out about what >you are doing. Posting here won't get your message across I think. so now you are

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 01/09/2015 10:29, Jaromil wrote: if you can confirm the plan of releasing r6-rc within september I confirm it. -- Laurent ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Hi Laurent, Am 31.08.2015 9:24 nachm. schrieb "Laurent Bercot" : > > On 31/08/2015 20:56, Tobias Hunger wrote: >> >> Oh, I am pretty happy with systemd and won't lie about that. I would >> still like to see some competition going. > > > That's pretty much the crux of the

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015, Laurent Bercot wrote: > I'm working on it with s6-rc. Jude is working on the udev system > with vdev. Other people are working on the other parts of the Linux > userspace that systemd would love to phagocyte. And we are not > getting the kind of money or resources that the

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 10:04:13 +0200 Tobias Hunger wrote: [snip] > Now that is a really depressing outlook. > > I am way more positive than about your chances than that. [snip] > Keep on hacking, you can make a difference:) [snip] > Go talk to other developers, find

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 30/08/15 09:26, Steve Litt wrote: > You know why, Nate. You were on Debian-User in the bad old days. Back > in the day, how many times did I get called a conspiracy theorist for > answering that question. > > Three words: > > 1. Follow > 2. the > 3. money. > So true, so true. I personally

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 01/09/2015 10:04, Tobias Hunger wrote: Now that is a really depressing outlook. What can I say: the state of affairs with the systemd madness *is* depressing. I am way more positive than about your chances than that. X11 used to be impossible to replace because of drivers and we are

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 2015-09-01 11:48, Laurent Bercot wrote: On 01/09/2015 10:29, Jaromil wrote: if you can confirm the plan of releasing r6-rc within september I confirm it. I am interested in r6-rc is there any place to read more about it or perhaps I have to wait for the release?

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Tue, 9/1/15, Jaromil wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2015, 8:37 AM [snip] > We do not need these sorts of debates here, we need to facilitate

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 2015-09-01 19:26, John Crisp wrote: On 30/08/15 09:26, Steve Litt wrote: You know why, Nate. You were on Debian-User in the bad old days. Back in the day, how many times did I get called a conspiracy theorist for answering that question. Three words: 1. Follow 2. the 3. money. So true,

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 01/09/15 15:16, jfmxl wrote: > > It was RH in league with/fronting for the NSA. I'm not an ardent conspiracy theorist so that's one step too far for me personally, though I do understand your thinking. RH is more than capable of doing this itself for it's own ends. It is doing nothing

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015, John Crisp wrote: > On 01/09/15 15:16, jfmxl wrote: > > > > It was RH in league with/fronting for the NSA. > > I'm not an ardent conspiracy theorist so that's one step too far for me > personally, though I do understand your thinking. > > RH is more than capable of doing

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 01/09/2015 15:50, shraptor wrote: I am interested in r6-rc is there any place to read more about it or perhaps I have to wait for the release? http://skarnet.org/s6-rc/ but you won't see much there until it's released. You can get a preliminary look, which includes some early

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Steve Litt writes: > On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 21:11:01 -0500 > Nate Bargmann wrote: > >> And all along I thought a "dock" had to do with a place to put program >> icons on a desktop and that "docker" was a tool to handle it. I've >> ignored everything about

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015, Tobias Hunger wrote: > > if that is even a legitimate account, > > Yes. Did we get to the point where we need fake emails to follow up > on free software projects now? since none of your emails are cryptographically signed, noone can really tell if this is an

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Jaromil wrote: > On Sun, 30 Aug 2015, Tobias Hunger wrote: > >> > if that is even a legitimate account, >> >> Yes. Did we get to the point where we need fake emails to follow up >> on free software projects now? > > since none of your emails are

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 31/08/2015 20:56, Tobias Hunger wrote: Oh, I am pretty happy with systemd and won't lie about that. I would still like to see some competition going. That's pretty much the crux of the problem here. Nothing can compete with systemd on the same grounds, because systemd covers so much ground

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Hi, On 08/31/2015 08:56 PM, Tobias Hunger wrote: > [...] > And yes, any init system that needs hacks like the one tilt! is > doing for his display manager is a lesser one. This is an outrage! I don't do "hacks", i perform highly qualified high-tech science development for the sake of future

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:56:33PM +0200, Tobias Hunger wrote: [cut] > > Oh, I am pretty happy with systemd and won't lie about that. I would > still like to see some competition going. > > And yes, any init system that needs hacks like the one tilt! is doing > for his display manager is a

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

KatolaZ writes: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:56:33PM +0200, Tobias Hunger wrote: > > [cut] > >> >> Oh, I am pretty happy with systemd and won't lie about that. I would >> still like to see some competition going. [...] > Go conquer the world with your little

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 20:59:24 +0100 Rainer Weikusat wrote: > KatolaZ writes: > [...] > > > Go conquer the world with your little software-engineering > > masterpiece, but please leave us poor cavemen in peace. > > The poor cavemen are the

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Am 31.08.2015 21:50 schrieb "KatolaZ" : > The sole fact that you consider anything else than systemd as "a > lesser" option[...] Hi KatolaZ, there are several inits (plus surrounding code like startup scripts) that do not require a hack like that. Systemd is just one of

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 21:11:01 -0500 Nate Bargmann wrote: > And all along I thought a "dock" had to do with a place to put program > icons on a desktop and that "docker" was a tool to handle it. I've > ignored everything about virtual machines except for Virtual Box and > QEMU. > >

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: ???su??? command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 30/08/2015 04:29, Isaac Dunham wrote: Correction for this: Alpine Linux is OpenRC based. Ah, sorry, I mixed them: it's Void Linux that's runit-based. -- Laurent ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 18:05:47 -0500 Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: * On 2015 29 Aug 16:14 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: Yeah, that isn't a problem, and shouldn't be a problem. Interestingly, in my LUG, the most pro-systemd guys are the mega-metal admins administering hundreds of boxes with

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:47:18 +0100 Dave Turner dave_t_tur...@barradas.free-online.co.uk wrote: I always thought su was the wrong way to go about things. Give me sudo every time. How much stuff do you want to put in sudoers? You really want to do what Ubuntu does? (there are assorted long

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:39:28 +0100 Rainer Weikusat rainerweiku...@virginmedia.com wrote: Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com writes: On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 02:20:41 +0200 Laurent Bercot ska-de...@skarnet.org wrote: On 29/08/2015 23:11, Steve Litt wrote: in my LUG, the most pro-systemd

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 30/08/2015 20:54, Steve Litt wrote: http://www.ibuildthecloud.com/blog/2014/12/03/is-docker-fundamentally-flawed Very nice! Note that the article is about the containers' *host*. When people talk about making systemd work with containers, they're usually meaning running systemd *in* the

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

* On 2015 30 Aug 02:27 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: You know why, Nate. You were on Debian-User in the bad old days. Back in the day, how many times did I get called a conspiracy theorist for answering that question. Three words: 1. Follow 2. the 3. money. Sigh, yes, I know. I'm still

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com writes: On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 02:20:41 +0200 Laurent Bercot ska-de...@skarnet.org wrote: On 29/08/2015 23:11, Steve Litt wrote: in my LUG, the most pro-systemd guys are the mega-metal admins administering hundreds of boxes with hundreds of Docker

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Laurent Bercot ska-de...@skarnet.org writes: On 29/08/2015 14:43, Rainer Weikusat wrote: 'su' is not a concept, it's a program. grumble Okay, let's clarify. A program is the implementation of an idea. The idea is often unwritten or unspoken, or forgotten, and people will only refer to the

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:20:15 -0400 Clarke Sideroad clarke.sider...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that with so much in common GNU/Linux or UNIX use that was so deeply flawed, he/Redhat would have been further ahead to just fork off and create Poettericks or or Poetterdows. No, because in a

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

And all along I thought a dock had to do with a place to put program icons on a desktop and that docker was a tool to handle it. I've ignored everything about virtual machines except for Virtual Box and QEMU. Evidently, I now have to know that a container is a virtual machine. Or is it? Seems

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

This is heartbreaking rather than a show. Replace everything that used to work reliably for so many years with what clueless beginners want! The plague has come, but not in the form of a deadly bacterium, but in the new trend of, sacrificing function for fashion. On 29/08/2015, Rainer Weikusat

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Laurent Bercot ska-de...@skarnet.org writes: On 28/08/2015 17:00, Michael Bütow wrote: https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ The thing is, he's not entirely wrong: su *is*, really, a broken concept. 'su' is not a concept, it's a program. This means one can use it to accomplish what it was

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Matteo Panella m.pane...@level28.org writes: On 28/08/2015 17:32, Laurent Bercot wrote: On 28/08/2015 17:00, Michael Bütow wrote: https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ The thing is, he's not entirely wrong: su *is*, really, a broken concept. On a desktop system with current constraints

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 28/08/2015 17:32, Laurent Bercot wrote: On 28/08/2015 17:00, Michael Bütow wrote: https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ The thing is, he's not entirely wrong: su *is*, really, a broken concept. On a desktop system with current constraints (XDG env vars, X11 sockets...) I'd agree, but

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 05:14:50PM +0200, poitr pogo wrote: ... So let them build desktop oriented linux, and let us focus on the server oriented version. I'm completely happy with devuan as a desktop system. Plaeas don't abandon the desktop. -- hendrik

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 8/29/15, poitr pogo lepo...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide To: dng dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Saturday, August 29, 2015, 10:14 AM So let them build desktop oriented linux, and let us focus on

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

It's the NSA. Sneaking binary logs into linux and so forth. Taking over the system. Redhat's corporate and just down the pike from Fort Meade. Lennart's a mole. Seems obvious to me, anyway. On 2015-08-29 22:14, poitr pogo wrote: Hi, On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Michael Bütow

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 29/08/15 17:50, Rainer Weikusat wrote: Tobias Hunger tobias.hun...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Rainer Weikusat rainerweiku...@virginmedia.com wrote: 'su' is a somewhat generic setuid-0 program: It changes the uid and the gids associated with itself to the ones for a

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 04:38:33PM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote: On 29/08/2015 14:43, Rainer Weikusat wrote: 'su' is not a concept, it's a program. grumble Okay, let's clarify. A program is the implementation of an idea. The idea is often unwritten or unspoken, or forgotten, and people

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 29/08/2015 14:43, Rainer Weikusat wrote: 'su' is not a concept, it's a program. grumble Okay, let's clarify. A program is the implementation of an idea. The idea is often unwritten or unspoken, or forgotten, and people will only refer to the implementation; but good design always starts

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 15:03:00 +0100 Edward Bartolo edb...@gmail.com wrote: The plague has come, but not in the form of a deadly bacterium, but in the new trend of, sacrificing function for fashion. Or the megalomaniac We are Systemd of Borg, resistance is futile... Cheers, Ron. --

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Hi, On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Michael Bütow mbu...@houtbay.com wrote: Article here: https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ I for one look forward to not having any of this madness one day when I transition completely to Devuan! This is rather good news, as this is extension to

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 08/28/2015 11:00 AM, Michael Bütow wrote: Article here: https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ I for one look forward to not having any of this madness one day when I transition completely to Devuan! su -- machinectl shell Obviously, too many people were getting root too easily.

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Hi Rainer, On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Rainer Weikusat rainerweiku...@virginmedia.com wrote: 'su' is a somewhat generic setuid-0 program: It changes the uid and the gids associated with itself to the ones for a certain user and then executes a shell. In addition to that, it contains

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Tobias Hunger tobias.hun...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Rainer Weikusat rainerweiku...@virginmedia.com wrote: 'su' is a somewhat generic setuid-0 program: It changes the uid and the gids associated with itself to the ones for a certain user and then executes a shell. In

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:22:23 -0700 Go Linux goli...@yahoo.com wrote: On Sat, 8/29/15, poitr pogo lepo...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide To: dng dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Saturday, August 29, 2015, 10:14

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 17:45:01 +0200 Tobias Hunger tobias.hun...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rainer, On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Rainer Weikusat rainerweiku...@virginmedia.com wrote: If not, then not. But the reason why su is only of limited usefulness is not because the hardcoded policy

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 20:34:29 +0200 Laurent Bercot ska-de...@skarnet.org wrote: Oh, I'm not blaming some abstract entity called su. When I say that su is not good (anymore), it's obviously on us. There's a reason why I have written programs performing privilege gain without bit s

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 15:20:01 -0500 Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: * On 2015 29 Aug 10:15 -0500, poitr pogo wrote: So let them build desktop oriented linux, and let us focus on the server oriented version. I'll add my voice to the chorus objecting to the idea that removal of systemd is

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Hi Jaromil, On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: Hi Rainer, do you know that you are feeding a troll ? tobias.hun...@gmail.com appears to be a systemd developer I tend to send patches to open source projects that I get into contact with. It is a really annoying habit

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Hi Jaromil, actually I was not replying to a technical question on systemd, that was my other mail to the question of tilt! I replied to earlier. You are right in that I should have known better than to get into this thread. A bad case of https://xkcd.com/386/ :-) Sorry, and now going to

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

* On 2015 29 Aug 16:14 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: Yeah, that isn't a problem, and shouldn't be a problem. Interestingly, in my LUG, the most pro-systemd guys are the mega-metal admins administering hundreds of boxes with hundreds of Docker containers. These guys are telling me systemd is

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 29/08/2015 20:10, KatolaZ wrote: Well, I wouldn't say that su is a broken concept on its own. In assessing the quality of ideas and software one should always take into account the motivations which led to a certain solution. su appeared in ATT Unix Version 1: Yes. However, Unix has

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:38:33 +0200 Laurent Bercot ska-de...@skarnet.org wrote: On 29/08/2015 14:43, Rainer Weikusat wrote: 'su' is not a concept, it's a program. grumble Okay, let's clarify. A program is the implementation of an idea. The idea is often unwritten or unspoken, or

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On August 29, 2015 6:54:44 PM GMT+02:00, Rowland Penny rpenny241...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rainer, do you know that you are feeding a troll ? tobias.hun...@gmail.com appears to be a systemd developer if that is even a legitimate account, is he getting paid for his time spent here? I find it

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 15:03:00 +0100 Edward Bartolo edb...@gmail.com wrote: This is heartbreaking rather than a show. Replace everything that used to work reliably for so many years with what clueless beginners want! The plague has come, but not in the form of a deadly bacterium, but in the

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Hi Matteo, On 08/29/2015 02:53 PM, Matteo Panella wrote: [...] On a server, tough, it just does its job nicely (unless you need strict audit of root-level actions, in which case sudo with a MAC system should be your starting point). So much noise (and security-critical code) for nothing. If

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: ???su??? command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 02:20:41AM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote: [snip] Alpine Linux, for instance, makes Docker containers a breeze to use, and makes the images a lot smaller. Alpine is runit-based, and people have also found success running Docker containers under s6; systemd is very

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 12:31:44AM +0200, Tobias Hunger wrote: Hi Jaromil, On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: Hi Rainer, do you know that you are feeding a troll ? tobias.hun...@gmail.com appears to be a systemd developer I tend to send patches to open source

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: I'll add my voice to the chorus objecting to the idea that removal of systemd is for servers only. I don't think anyone has suggested it's for servers only. But, there is an argument for picking the low hanging fruit - and that means trying to do the easy

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 12:13:43AM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote: [cut] Right now with Debian Jessie systemd must be installed to make the desktop anywhere near functional, but that is a result of packaging decisions by Debian ... I don't think it's so much a packaging decision by Debian,

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 12:13:43AM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote: I don't think it's so much a packaging decision by Debian, more a case of what the upstream devs have done. The Debian decision was (AIUI) we don't have the resources to remove the crap - not a decision to add it, just a

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 29/08/2015 23:11, Steve Litt wrote: in my LUG, the most pro-systemd guys are the mega-metal admins administering hundreds of boxes with hundreds of Docker containers. These guys are telling me systemd is necessary to efficiently manage the Dockers. They're telling you that because they've

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 30/08/2015 01:13, Simon Hobson wrote: I don't think anyone has suggested it's for servers only. But, there is an argument for picking the low hanging fruit - and that means trying to do the easy bits first. I've not really followed it in detail, but from what I've read it does seem that the

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 05:00:56PM +0200, Michael Bütow wrote: Article here: https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ I for one look forward to not having any of this madness one day when I transition completely to Devuan! Motivations are legit (see sup, doas). Having a privilege

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

On 28/08/2015 17:00, Michael Bütow wrote: https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ The thing is, he's not entirely wrong: su *is*, really, a broken concept. What he conveniently forgets, of course, is that having a real root session with a separated environment, which is what the new feature

Re: [DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

I always thought su was the wrong way to go about things. Give me sudo every time. (there are assorted long discussions about su vs sudo out there on the interweb, let's not repeat them here!) Just be glad we still have a choice! DaveT On 28/08/15 16:32, Laurent Bercot wrote: On 28/08/2015

[DNG] The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide

Article here: https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ I for one look forward to not having any of this madness one day when I transition completely to Devuan! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org