On 7 Dec 2001 14:24:17 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dennis Roberts) wrote:
At 08:08 PM 12/7/01 +, J. Williams wrote:
On 6 Dec 2001 11:34:20 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dennis Roberts) wrote:
if anything, selectivity has decreased at some of these top schools due to
the fact that given
At 08:08 PM 12/7/01 +, J. Williams wrote:
On 6 Dec 2001 11:34:20 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dennis Roberts) wrote:
if anything, selectivity has decreased at some of these top schools due to
the fact that given their extremely high tuition ...
i was just saying that IF anything had
Just in case someone is interested in the Harvard instance
that I mentioned -- while you might get the article from a newsstand
or a friend --
On Sun, 02 Dec 2001 19:19:38 -0500, Rich Ulrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
[ ... ]
Now, in the NY Times, just a week or two ago. The
dean of
generally speaking, it is kind of difficult to muster sufficient evidence
that the amount of grade inflation that is observed ... within and across
schools or colleges ... is due to an increase in student ability
i find it difficult to believe that the average ability at a place like
harvard
On Sun, 02 Dec 2001 19:19:38 -0500, Rich Ulrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
With the curve, and low, low averages, you do notice
that a single *good* performance can outweigh several
poor ones. So that is good.
It is good, but conversely having several high scores even with low,
low averages
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Thom Baguley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Donald Burrill wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2001, L.C. wrote:
The question got me thinking about this problem as a
multiple comparison problem. Exam scores are typically
sums of problem scores. The problem scores may be
Hi
On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Thom Baguley wrote:
I'd argue that they probably aren't that independent. If I ask three
questions all involving simple algebra and a student doesn't
understand simple algebra they'll probably get all three wrong. In
my experience most statistics exams are better
Hi
On 25 Nov 2001, Herman Rubin wrote:
If it is a good test, ability should predominate, and there is
absolutely no reason for ability to even have close to a normal
distribution. If one has two groups with different normal
distributions, combining them will never get normality.
I think
At 01:35 PM 11/28/01 -0600, jim clark wrote:
Hi
On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Thom Baguley wrote:
I'd argue that they probably aren't that independent. If I ask three
questions all involving simple algebra and a student doesn't
understand simple algebra they'll probably get all three wrong. In
my
Hi
On 28 Nov 2001, Dennis Roberts wrote:
At 01:35 PM 11/28/01 -0600, jim clark wrote:
The distribution of grades will depend on the distribution of
difficulties of the items, one of the elements examined by
psychometrists in the development of professional-quality
assessments.
unless
Donald Burrill wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2001, L.C. wrote:
The question got me thinking about this problem as a
multiple comparison problem. Exam scores are typically
sums of problem scores. The problem scores may be
thought of as random variables. By the central limit theorem,
the
On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Thom Baguley wrote in part:
Donald Burrill wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2001, L.C. wrote:
The question got me thinking about this problem as a
multiple comparison problem. Exam scores are typically
sums of problem scores. The problem scores may be
thought of
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
L.C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The question got me thinking about this problem as a
multiple comparison problem. Exam scores are typically
sums of problem scores. The problem scores may be
thought of as random variables. By the central limit theorem,
the distribution
on the normal distribution; they often work well in general.
Least squares is one of these.
Best Regards,
-Larry (And they get to testify in court) C.
Hmm. This thread started out as evaluating students, in the context of
classes and teacher-made tests, as I recall. Not exactly the same thing
(thereby
defining their own prevalences :) and assert that they are
discovering diseases, and not punishing unusual people.
Best Regards,
-Larry (And they get to testify in court) C.
Hmm. This thread started out as evaluating students, in the context of
classes and teacher-made tests
that they are
discovering diseases, and not punishing unusual people.
Best Regards,
-Larry (And they get to testify in court) C.
Hmm. This thread started out as evaluating students, in the context of
classes and teacher-made tests, as I recall. Not exactly the same thing
as diagnosing (in a quasi
to a
question is the
*process* by which the student obtains the incidental final number or
result.
The result itself is most often just not that important to evaluating
students'
understanding or knowledge of the subject. And therefore an unsupported
or lucky answer is worth nothing
to a
question is the
*process* by which the student obtains the incidental final number or
result.
The result itself is most often just not that important to evaluating
students'
understanding or knowledge of the subject. And therefore an unsupported
or lucky answer is worth nothing.
the problems
to a
question is the
*process* by which the student obtains the incidental final number or
result.
The result itself is most often just not that important to evaluating
students'
understanding or knowledge of the subject. And therefore an unsupported
or lucky answer is worth nothing.
the problems
At 02:45 PM 11/18/01 -0700, Roy St Laurent wrote:
Comments interspersed below...
Sure, I wouldn't give a student full credit if their process was correct but
their
final result was wrong. But an answer that shows me they know the process
but have the wrong final result is worth MUCH, MUCH more
the general problems evaluating students are how much time do you have for
(say) exams, what can be reasonably expected that students will be able to
do with that amount of time, what content can you examine on, and ... what
sort of formats do you opt for with your exams
in statistics
dennis roberts wrote:
would we give full credit for 87/18 = 7/1 ... 8's cancel?
Full marks. As Napoleon used to ask, Is he lucky?. :) He/she deserves it.!
--
John Kane
The Rideau Lakes, Ontario Canada
Of course not. No sign of inspired luck just lousy math.
--
is most often just not that important to evaluating
students'
understanding or knowledge of the subject. And therefore an unsupported
or lucky answer is worth nothing.
Stan Brown wrote:
Jerry Dallal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in sci.stat.edu:
Problem: Divide 95 by 19.
Student writes 95/19, 9's
the incidental final number or
result.
The result itself is most often just not that important to evaluating
students'
understanding or knowledge of the subject. And therefore an unsupported
or lucky answer is worth nothing.
the problems with the above are twofold:
1. this assumes that correct answers
the student obtains the incidental final number or
result.
The result itself is most often just not that important to evaluating
students'
understanding or knowledge of the subject. And therefore an unsupported
or lucky answer is worth nothing.
the problems with the above are twofold:
1
Jerry Dallal wrote:
John Kane wrote:
Very true and I was being deliberatly provocative. Howeever I still cannot
see penalizing someone for gerttaingt the right anwser no matter how arried
at.
Problem: Divide 95 by 19.
Student writes 95/19, 9's cancel, leaving 5/1 = 5 .
How much
Jerry Dallal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in sci.stat.edu:
Problem: Divide 95 by 19.
Student writes 95/19, 9's cancel, leaving 5/1 = 5 .
How much credit do you award?
Perfect example!
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
would we give full credit for 87/18 = 7/1 ... 8's cancel?
Full marks. As Napoleon used to ask, Is he lucky?. :) He/she deserves it.!
--
John Kane
The Rideau Lakes, Ontario Canada
=
Instructions for joining
Herman Rubin wrote:
Yes. Also, closed book exams tend to be easier because the range of
questions is more restricted. I have found them a way to avoid
students spending most of their time memorizing near-useless material.
On the contrary, closed book exams emphasize memorizing
near-useless
Alan McLean wrote:
This describes a BAD closed book exam. It also describes a bad open book
exam.
Not entirely. I have found that many students still worry about such
things regardless of the information they have about the exam.
A good one-hour exam would have
three, or at most four,
the problem with any exam ... given in any format ... is the extent to
which you can INFER what the examinee knows or does not know from their
responses
in the case of recognition tests ... where precreated answers are given and
you make a choice ... it is very difficult to infer anything BUT
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Alan McLean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Thom Baguley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glen wrote:
As a student I *always* preferred closed book exams. If I know the
material I don't need the book, and if I don't know
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carl Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Using introductory statistics as an example, concepts are built in a certain
sequence. If students get lost at a certain stage, s/he will have difficulty
to connect the later concepts together. Therefore, it is crucial to test the
Thom Baguley wrote:
Alan McLean wrote:
This describes a BAD closed book exam. It also describes a bad open book
exam.
Not entirely. I have found that many students still worry about such
things regardless of the information they have about the exam.
A good one-hour exam would
of evaluating students
than merely setting and marking written timed exams?
We can make part of the exam a take-home exam. We can
allow calculators, and in the near future we are likely to
be able to allow computer access during an exam. While we
may not be able to completely avoid written timed exams
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Thom Baguley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glen wrote:
As a student I *always* preferred closed book exams. If I know the
material I don't need the book, and if I don't know the material,
the book isn't going to help in the exam enough anyway. For open
Yes. Also,
John Kane wrote:
Very true and I was being deliberatly provocative. Howeever I still cannot
see penalizing someone for gerttaingt the right anwser no matter how arried
at.
Problem: Divide 95 by 19.
Student writes 95/19, 9's cancel, leaving 5/1 = 5 .
How much credit do you award?
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Thom Baguley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glen wrote:
As a student I *always* preferred closed book exams. If I know the
material I don't need the book, and if I don't know the material,
the book isn't going to help in the exam enough
On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Alan McLean wrote in part:
Herman Rubin wrote:
A good exam would be one which someone who has merely
memorized the book would fail, and one who understands
the concepts but has forgotten all the formulas would
do extremely well on.
Since to understand the
Using introductory statistics as an example, concepts are built in a certain
sequence. If students get lost at a certain stage, s/he will have difficulty
to connect the later concepts together. Therefore, it is crucial to test the
understanding of the connection (or relationship) among related
Students also confuse histograms with time series graphs. They describe
a graph as, for example, 'starting low, increasing then decreasing
again'. It's easy enough to see how they get this approach from their
school maths. It's much more difficult to get them to see a histogram as
rather more
Glen wrote:
As a student I *always* preferred closed book exams. If I know the
material I don't need the book, and if I don't know the material,
the book isn't going to help in the exam enough anyway. For open
Yes. Also, closed book exams tend to be easier because the range of
questions is
and BB both answered questions
poorly on an exam. Perhaps one (or both) may be quite likely to
apply correct statistical techniques correctly in the real world.
How do we know? How can we do a better job of evaluating students
than merely setting and marking written timed exams?
Yes there are ways
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
John Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
John Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stan Brown wrote:
Herman Rubin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in sci.stat.edu:
Test for understanding, not for
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
John Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
John Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stan Brown wrote:
Herman Rubin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in sci.stat.edu:
Test for understanding, not for imitation of robots. Give
a
in the real world.
How do we know? How can we do a better job of evaluating students
than merely setting and marking written timed exams?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://oakroadsystems.com/
My theory was a perfectly good one
Stan Brown wrote:
Herman Rubin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in sci.stat.edu:
Test for understanding, not for imitation of robots. Give
a few multi-part problems, and be sure to give partial credit.
Excellent advice. I do (try to) test for understanding, by posing
problems in real-world terms
Jerry Dallal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
Students report learning as much if not more from preparing what
they call cheat sheets (I refer to them as reference notes) than
from any other class activity. I had one PhD student tell me last
year that while she
Gus Gassmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in sci.stat.edu:
I much prefer Herman Rubin's suggestion
of open book, open notes. The problem I have encountered quite
frequently, however, is that many students don't bother to study,
because they can always look it up during the exam. This creates
enormous
Jerry Dallal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in sci.stat.edu:
I *do*
allow one sheet of notes (both sides) for each exam. They're
cumulative. At any exam, students may bring the sheets for all
previous exams plus a new one for the current exam.
Students report learning as much if not more from
I had to comment on the thread. I've been involved in teaching since, 1958
and have taught at many levels (maybe too many). I tried the open book
approach and believed at one time it was a good method but I always wondered
it it really was the best way to go. I tried take-home exams but was
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