RE: Statistical illiteracy

2001-12-17 Thread Wuensch, Karl L
Don asked: "But back to your retail trade: if they advertise a 150% discount directly, without referring to the sequence of three 50% discounts, might they not be liable to legal action for misrepresentation?" Perhaps in the distant past, when our government attempted to protect the rights of

Re: biostatistics careers

2001-12-17 Thread Jerry Dallal
I was about to respond along the same lines, but with genomics and genetic epidemiology entering the picture there's a certain truth to it. OTOH, not so much that I would characterize the field that way. Jerrold Zar wrote: > > Dennis Roberts: > > I wonder what makes you say what you did below.

Re: Statistical illiteracy in Assoc. Press

2001-12-17 Thread J E H Shaw
On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Jill Binker wrote: > If remark about putting numbers on a single line is referring to: > > >"They record the results of their mental calculations using a > > horizontal format." For example, 86+57=86+50+7=136+7=143. > > Then I see nothing wrong with this (and it has NOTHING t

RE: Statistical illiteracy

2001-12-17 Thread Donald Burrill
On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Wuensch, Karl L wrote: > I came across a table of costume jewelry at a department store with a > sign that said "150% off. " I asked them how much they would pay me to > take it all off of their hands. I had to explain to them what 150% > meant, and they then explained t

Re: biostatistics careers

2001-12-16 Thread Jerrold Zar
Dennis Roberts: I wonder what makes you say what you did below. Are there some biostatistics textbooks that have given you that impression? Jerrold H. Zar, Professor Department of Biological Sciences Northern Illinois University DeKalb, IL 60115 [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Dennis Roberts <[EMAIL PRO

re: - FQAAF

2001-12-16 Thread customersupportrep24142
Title: Limited Time Offer! You are receiving this email as a subscriber to Consumer Affiliates Mailing List a Double-Opt-In-Verified mailing List To unsubscribe yourself from this list, just email us at: UNSUBSCRIBE MY EMAIL ADDRESS

Re: Basics

2001-12-14 Thread Rich Ulrich
On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:22:26 +1100, "colsul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Read the request closely as answering newsgroup queries without > understanding what is said can make you look, no, confirm you are stupid. In Sensitivity-group country, we try to say (if confrontation is necessary) that

Re: used books

2001-12-14 Thread IPEK
Thanks a lot! "IPEK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 9v88vu$86d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:9v88vu$86d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Do you know any online used bookstore other than Amazon? I need to find some > old stat and OR books. > >

Re: Statistical illiteracy in Assoc. Press

2001-12-14 Thread Jill Binker
If remark about putting numbers on a single line is referring to: >"They record the results of their mental calculations using a > horizontal format." For example, 86+57=86+50+7=136+7=143. Then I see nothing wrong with this (and it has NOTHING to do with what sorts of paper you bank will be send

RE: Statistical illiteracy

2001-12-14 Thread Dennis Roberts
At 02:20 PM 12/14/01 -0500, Wuensch, Karl L wrote: >I came across a table of costume jewelry at a department store with a sign >that said "150% off. " I asked them how much they would pay me to take it >all off of their hands. I had to explain to them what 150% meant, and >they then explaine

RE: Statistical illiteracy

2001-12-14 Thread Wuensch, Karl L
D] Subject: Re: Statistical illiteracy (Just bragging)   I received a credit report telling me that my rating was higher than 100% of the persons who received them.   You can't imagine how proud and happy I was to learn that my rating was even higher than my own.

Re: Statistical illiteracy in Assoc. Press

2001-12-14 Thread
I throw in the following quote from an article by Dea Birkett on the "National Numeracy Strategy" (Guardian, Tuesday December 11) [ see the link "And counting" on] [ http://www.education.guardian.co.uk/higher/maths/ ] Columns are the first casualty in this push for underst

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-14 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
Jerry Dallal wrote: > > "Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: > > > > Jerry Dallal wrote: > > > > > > "Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: > > > > > > > > Art Kendall wrote: > > > > > > > > . Mathematical > > > > > statisticians need more course work

Re: Statistical illiteracy in Assoc. Press

2001-12-14 Thread spam
In <9vbhs3$9im$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ronald Bloom wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Today's story from the Associated Press, "Study: American kids getting fatter > > at disturbing rate". > > > "By 1998, nearly 22 percent of black children ages 4 to 12 were overweight, > > [] > > > ov

Re: Statistical illiteracy .... (Just bragging)

2001-12-13 Thread Socspace
I received a credit report telling me that my rating was higher than 100% of the persons who received them.   You can't imagine how proud and happy I was to learn that my rating was even higher than my own.

Re: Statistical illiteracy in Assoc. Press

2001-12-13 Thread Ronald Bloom
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Today's story from the Associated Press, "Study: American kids getting fatter > at disturbing rate". > "By 1998, nearly 22 percent of black children ages 4 to 12 were overweight, [] > overweight. ...Overweight was defined as having a body-mass index higher >

Re: Basics

2001-12-13 Thread colsul
Read the request closely as answering newsgroup queries without understanding what is said can make you look, no, confirm you are stupid. "Glen Barnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > colsul wrote: > > > > Does anyone know of a website that de

RE: finding steady state probabilities in Markov process

2001-12-13 Thread Larry Che
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=_NextPart_000_000C_01C183E6.195A0050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I have a question on finding steady-state probabilities in a Markov = process. Suppose there are

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-13 Thread Jerry Dallal
"Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: > > Jerry Dallal wrote: > > > > "Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: > > > > > > Art Kendall wrote: > > > > > > . Mathematical > > > > statisticians need more course work than general statisticians. Many > > > > a

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-13 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
Jerry Dallal wrote: > > "Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: > > > > Art Kendall wrote: > > > > . Mathematical > > > statisticians need more course work than general statisticians. Many > > > agencies pay 15% more to a math statistician than a

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-13 Thread Jerry Dallal
"Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: > > Art Kendall wrote: > > . Mathematical > > statisticians need more course work than general statisticians. Many > > agencies pay 15% more to a math statistician than a general > > statistician. > >

Re: Evaluating students: A Statistical Perspective

2001-12-13 Thread Rich Ulrich
On 7 Dec 2001 14:24:17 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dennis Roberts) wrote: > At 08:08 PM 12/7/01 +, J. Williams wrote: > >On 6 Dec 2001 11:34:20 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dennis Roberts) wrote: > > > > >if anything, selectivity has decreased at some of these top schools due to > > >the fact that

Re: used books

2001-12-13 Thread Stan Brown
IPEK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in sci.stat.edu: >Do you know any online used bookstore other than Amazon? I need to find some >old stat and OR books. Someone recommended http://www.abebooks.com and I second that recommendation. However, if you use http://www.bookfinder.com you get a sear

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-13 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
Art Kendall wrote: . Mathematical > statisticians need more course work than general statisticians. Many > agencies pay 15% more to a math statistician than a general > statistician. So what you're saying is that it isn't a diffe

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-13 Thread Art Kendall
In the United States they are two job series for federal civil service. A job series is shorthand for a title. A person can be called an economist, accountant, mathematical statistician, statistician, program analyst, letter carrier, research psychologist, etc. if they meet minimum standards. Mat

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-13 Thread
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Andreas Karlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >What is (are) the difference(s) between Statistics and Mathematical > >Statistics? Dare I point out that "Mathematical " is popularly perceived as meaning "it's there, but it's of purely academic interest, and you

Re: Basics

2001-12-12 Thread Glen Barnett
colsul wrote: > > Does anyone know of a website that deals with basic statistic formulae > and/or business math? Also, I am looking for a text book that could give me > a grounding in the basics of statistics, stat. analysis and business maths. > I need to cram so I have some idea for a job inter

Re: Cramer-von-Mises Criterion

2001-12-12 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <9v89fi$7e7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michael London <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >An introduction to mathematical statistics by Bain and Engelhart deals with >this topic >ML >"Clay S. Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... >> You have prob

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-12 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Christopher Tong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On 11 Dec 2001, Herman Rubin wrote: >> Most courses in physics are courses in mathematical physics. >This is blatantly incorrect. Courses called "Mathematical Methods of >Physics" are common, and some courses are call

Re: used books

2001-12-12 Thread Reg Jordan
This is one of the BEST sources for used books: http://www.powells.com/ Hope this helps. reg - Original Message - From: IPEK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:51 PM Subject: used books > Do you know any online used bookstore other than Ama

Re: used books

2001-12-12 Thread Alan McLean
Try http://www.abebooks.com/ Alan IPEK wrote: > > Do you know any online used bookstore other than Amazon? I need to find some > old stat and OR books. > > = > Instructions for joining and leaving this list and remarks about > the

Re: used books

2001-12-12 Thread Dennis Roberts
try ... http://www.bookfinder.com ... you might have luck there At 11:51 AM 12/12/01 -0700, IPEK wrote: >Do you know any online used bookstore other than Amazon? I need to find some >old stat and OR books. > > > > >= >Instructions fo

Re: Cramer-von-Mises Criterion

2001-12-12 Thread Michael London
An introduction to mathematical statistics by Bain and Engelhart deals with this topic ML "Clay S. Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > You have probably thought of this, but the age old standard is the Chi > Square test. > > One thing abo

Re: Sorry for question, but how is the english word for @

2001-12-12 Thread Nathaniel
U¿ytkownik "Nathaniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci news:9v3d79$2rj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi, > > Sorry for question, but how is the english word for @ > Pleas forgive me. > > N. Thank everyone for valuable information. Nathaniel ==

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-11 Thread Christopher Tong
On 11 Dec 2001, Herman Rubin wrote: > Most courses in physics are courses in mathematical physics. This is blatantly incorrect. Courses called "Mathematical Methods of Physics" are common, and some courses are called "Mathematical Physics" even though they are really methods courses. But these

Re: ANOVA = Regression

2001-12-11 Thread Jerry Dallal
Stan Brown wrote: > > The file type was RTF. Unless I'm _VERY_ much mistaken, RTF cannot > carry macros of any sort, let alone viruses. > Oops, there is one loophole: Yes, a loophole. In fact, one can embed a destructive program in a pure ASCII file that can affect some machines. (Hint: it is

Re: Who said "Correlation does not imply causation".

2001-12-11 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, EugeneGall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>Andrew Morse wrote: >>>Who was the first to say "Correlation does not imply causation" in so many >>>words? I know that the idea dates back to David Hume, but Hume did his >>>work about a century before the term "correlation

Re: ANOVA = Regression

2001-12-11 Thread Jerry Dallal
nstration of the equivalence of regression and traditional ANOVA, > just point your browser to > http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/wuenschk/StatHelp/ANOVA=reg.rtf. > > -Original Message- > From: Stephen Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 3:47

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-11 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jerry Dallal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Herman Rubin wrote: >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >> Andreas Karlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >What is (are) the difference(s) between Statistics and Mathematical >> >Statistics? >> Mathematical statistics is th

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-11 Thread Christopher Tong
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Andreas Karlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >What is (are) the difference(s) between Statistics and Mathematical > >Statistics? The difference is not unlike that between Physics and Mathematical Physics. One is a science, which is judged by its contact with

Re: ANOVA = Regression

2001-12-11 Thread Stan Brown
Jerry Dallal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in sci.stat.edu: >It's lunch hour. I'm browsing. Shall I click on a link to a file >type that has the potential to carry viruses? OT1H, Karl is a >regular poster. OTOH, why run the risk? I guess I'll download and >look at it in WordView. The file type w

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical

2001-12-11 Thread Jerry Dallal
Herman Rubin wrote: > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Andreas Karlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >What is (are) the difference(s) between Statistics and Mathematical > >Statistics? > > Mathematical statistics is the basis of whatever statistical > methods are used correctly, if you mean t

Re: Maximum Likelihood, Likelihood Ratio, & Chi Square

2001-12-11 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jimc10 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I am using a maximum likelihood algorythym to fit an electophysiologic data to >a series of theoretical models. I am interesting in comparing two models wich >differ in the number of free parameters, the simpler being a subhypothes

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical Statistics?

2001-12-11 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andreas Karlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >What is (are) the difference(s) between Statistics and Mathematical >Statistics? Mathematical statistics is the basis of whatever statistical methods are used correctly, if you mean the general subject of statistics. Th

Re: ANOVA = Regression

2001-12-11 Thread Dennis Roberts
t your browser to >http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/wuenschk/StatHelp/ANOVA=reg.rtf. > >-Original Message- >From: Stephen Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 3:47 AM >To: Karl L. Wuensch >Subject:Re: When does correlation imply

Re: Sorry for question, but how is the english word for @

2001-12-11 Thread Socspace
Nathaniel: The symbol @ belongs to the cateqory of special characters in English.   Although it is often rendered as "commercial at" in a technical context, in the vernacular (and on the net)  it is most often rendered as simply"at." I can't help but advise that, since English is clearly your se

Re: Sorry for question, but how is the english word for @

2001-12-11 Thread Nathaniel
Thank everyone for valuable information. Nathaniel Uzytkownik "Art Kendall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisal w wiadomosci [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > "at"usually indicate some kind of rate or unit price 10 pounds @ $1 > per pound > > on the net is is used as a separator betwe

Re: Sorry for question, but how is the english word for @

2001-12-11 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
Nathaniel wrote: > > Hi, > > Sorry for question, but how is the english word for @ > Pleas forgive me. You're forgiven... The New Hacker's Dictionary gives: common: at sign; at; strudel rare (and often facetious): vortex, whorl, whirlpool , cyclone, snail, ape, cat

Re: Who said "Correlation does not imply causation".

2001-12-11 Thread EugeneGall
>Andrew Morse wrote: > >>Who was the first to say "Correlation does not imply causation" in so many >>words? I know that the idea dates back to David Hume, but Hume did his >>work about a century before the term "correlation" acquired its modern >>statitical meaning. > >It certainly wasn't Hume,

Re: Cramer-von-Mises Criterion

2001-12-11 Thread Chia C Chong
Thanks... CCC "Clay S. Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hello Chia, > No actually they are used to extract the distribution from the data. > They do this by a process known as resampling. > > Clay > > > > Chia C Chong wrote: > > > > Hi!!

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Vadim and Oxana Marmer
> > Sigma is hardly ever known, so you must use t. Then why not simply tell > the students: "use the t table as far as it goes, (usually around > n=120), and after that, use the n=\infty line (which corresponds to the > normal distribution). Then there is no need for a rule for "when to use > z, w

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Vadim and Oxana Marmer
> 3) When n is greater than 30 and we do not know sigma, we must estimate > sigma using s so we really should be using t rather than z. you are wrong. you use t-distribution not because you don't know sigma, but because your statistic has EXACT t-distribution under certain conditions. I know tha

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Vadim and Oxana Marmer
besides, who needs those tables? we have computers now, don't we? I was told that there were tables for logarithms once. I have not seen one in my life. Is not it the same kind of stuff? > > 3. Outdated. > > on the grounds that when sigma is unknown, the proper distribution is t > (unless N is

RE: When does correlation imply causation?

2001-12-10 Thread David Heiser
-Original Message- Dennis Roberts makes a good point here >i repeat ... the r value shows the extent to which a straight line (in a 2 >variable problem) can pass through a scatterplot and, be close TO the data >points >in that sense, r is an index value for the extent to which a straig

RE: Question about concatenating probability distributions

2001-12-10 Thread David Heiser
RE: The Poisson process and Lognormal action time. This kind of problem arises a lot in the actuarial literature (a process for the number of claims and a process for the claim size), and the Poisson and the lognormal have been used in this context - it might be worth your while to look there

Re: Sorry for question, but how is the english word for @

2001-12-10 Thread Art Kendall
"at"usually indicate some kind of rate or unit price 10 pounds @ $1 per pound on the net is is used as a separator between the id of an individual and his/her location [EMAIL PROTECTED] id spoken as john dot smith at harvard dot e d u. until the early-80's or so dot was spoken as point as

Re: Sorry for question, but how is the english word for @

2001-12-10 Thread Richard Wright
The name given to the symbol @ in international standard character sets is 'commercial at'. See http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/whereat.htm for a history of the symbol. Richard Wright On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:34:19 +0100, "Nathaniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi, > >Sorry for questio

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Rich Ulrich
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:57:29 -0400, Gus Gassmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Art Kendall wrote: > > (putting below the previous quotes for readability) > > > Gus Gassmann wrote: > > > > > Dennis Roberts wrote: > > > > > > > this is pure speculation ... i have yet to hear of any convincing case

Re: Slutsky's theorem

2001-12-10 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, kjetil halvorsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Slutsky's theorem says that if Xn ->(D) X and Yn ->(P) y0, y0 a >constant, then >Xn + Yn ->(D) X+y0. It is easy to make a counterexample if both Xn and >Yn converges in distribution. Anybody have an counterexample when Y

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Dennis Roberts
At 03:42 PM 12/10/01 +, Jerry Dallal wrote: >Dennis Roberts wrote: > > > this is pure speculation ... i have yet to hear of any convincing case > > where the variance is known but, the mean is not > >A scale (weighing device) with known precision. as far as i know ... knowing the precision is

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Gus Gassmann
Jon Cryer wrote: > But then you should use a binomial (or hypergeometric) distribution. > > Jon Cryer > > p.s. Of course, you might approximate by an appropriate normal > distribution. Quite, and then you are in a situation where you know (or at least pretend to know) the population variance, t

Re: What is the difference between Statistics and Mathematical Statistics?

2001-12-10 Thread Kevin C. Heslin
Mathematical statistics will require that you take 5, rather than 2, Advil or Tylenol. At 06:24 PM 12/10/2001 +, Andreas Karlsson wrote: >What is (are) the difference(s) between Statistics and Mathematical >Statistics? > > >= >

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Jon Cryer
Only as an approximation. At 12:57 PM 12/10/01 -0400, you wrote: >Art Kendall wrote: > >(putting below the previous quotes for readability) > > > Gus Gassmann wrote: > > > > > Dennis Roberts wrote: > > > > > > > this is pure speculation ... i have yet to hear of any convincing case > > > > where

Re: Cramer-von-Mises Criterion

2001-12-10 Thread Clay S. Turner
Hello Chia, No actually they are used to extract the distribution from the data. They do this by a process known as resampling. Clay Chia C Chong wrote: > > Hi!! > > Thanks for your reply...do you mean that Jackknife and Bootstrapping methods > area also some kind of goodness-of-fit

Re: Cramer-von-Mises Criterion

2001-12-10 Thread Chia C Chong
Hi!! Thanks for your reply...do you mean that Jackknife and Bootstrapping methods area also some kind of goodness-of-fit tests?? Cheers, CCC "Clay S. Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > You have probably thought of this, but the age old

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Art Kendall
Usually I would use software. As I tried to show is the sample syntax I posted earlier, it doesn't usually make much difference whether you use z or t. Gus Gassmann wrote: > Art Kendall wrote: > > (putting below the previous quotes for readability) > > > Gus Gassmann wrote: > > > > > Dennis Rob

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Gus Gassmann
Art Kendall wrote: (putting below the previous quotes for readability) > Gus Gassmann wrote: > > > Dennis Roberts wrote: > > > > > this is pure speculation ... i have yet to hear of any convincing case > > > where the variance is known but, the mean is not > > > > What about that other applicati

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Art Kendall
the sample mean of the dichotomous (one_zero, dummy) variable is known, It is the proportion. Gus Gassmann wrote: > Dennis Roberts wrote: > > > this is pure speculation ... i have yet to hear of any convincing case > > where the variance is known but, the mean is not > > What about that other ap

Re: Cramer-von-Mises Criterion

2001-12-10 Thread Clay S. Turner
You have probably thought of this, but the age old standard is the Chi Square test. One thing about empirical distributions is that they may not be one of the standard forms. This is why the Jackknife method and then later the Bootstrapping methods were developed. Thus you can extract the distr

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Jon Cryer
I always thought that the precision of a scale was proportional to the amount weighed. So don't you have to know the mean before you know the standard deviation? But wait a minute - we are trying assess the size of the mean! Jon Cryer At 03:42 PM 12/10/01 +, you wrote: Dennis Roberts wrote: >

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Jerry Dallal
Dennis Roberts wrote: > this is pure speculation ... i have yet to hear of any convincing case > where the variance is known but, the mean is not A scale (weighing device) with known precision. = Instructions for joining and leavi

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Jon Cryer
But then you should use a binomial (or hypergeometric) distribution. Jon Cryer p.s. Of course, you might approximate by an appropriate normal distribution. At 11:39 AM 12/10/01 -0400, you wrote: Dennis Roberts wrote: > this is pure speculation ... i have yet to hear of any convincing case > where

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Gus Gassmann
Dennis Roberts wrote: > this is pure speculation ... i have yet to hear of any convincing case > where the variance is known but, the mean is not What about that other application used so prominently in texts of business statistics, testing for a proportion?

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Dennis Roberts
At 04:14 AM 12/10/01 +, Jim Snow wrote: >"Ronny Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > A few weeks ago, I posted a message about when to use t and when to use z. > >I did not see the earlier postings, so forgive me if I repeat advic

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
Ronny Richardson wrote: > > Are they > > 1. Wrong > 2. Just oversimplifying it without telling the reader Neither, really. The MAIN objection to "z over 30" is that it adds an an unnecessary step to the decision process. If it actually simplified things greatly I reckon we could live

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread Art Kendall
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --F89CEF3F1CDF5660163AA634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If your conclusion differs whether you use t or z, your decision is "at the edge". The total uncertainty (T) in a decision has two part

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-10 Thread kjetil halvorsen
Ronny Richardson wrote: > > A few weeks ago, I posted a message about when to use t and when to use z. > In reviewing the responses, it seems to me that I did a poor job of > explaining my question/concern so I am going to try again. > > I have included a few references this time since one res

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-09 Thread Glen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ronny Richardson) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... > A few weeks ago, I posted a message about when to use t and when to use z. > In reviewing the responses, it seems to me that I did a poor job of > explaining my question/concern so I am going to try again. > > I

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-09 Thread Jim Snow
"Ronny Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > A few weeks ago, I posted a message about when to use t and when to use z. I did not see the earlier postings, so forgive me if I repeat advice already given.:-) 1. The consequences of usi

Re: When to Use t and When to Use z Revisited

2001-12-09 Thread Donald Burrill
On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Ronny Richardson wrote in part: > Bluman has a figure (2, page 333) that is supposed to show the student > "When to Use the z or t Distribution." I have seen a similar figure in > several different textbooks. So have I, sometimes as a diagram or flow chart, sometimes in par

Re: Question about concatenating probability distributions

2001-12-09 Thread Glen
"Jacek Gomoluch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<9uqkmv$954$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... > In a stochastic process the number of customers which are arriving at a > server (during a time intervall) is desribed by a Poisson distribution: > > P(n)=exp(-v) * (v^n)/(n!) > > Each arriving custom

Re: Who said "Correlation does not imply causation".

2001-12-09 Thread EugeneGall
Andrew Morse wrote: >Who was the first to say "Correlation does not imply causation" in so many >words? I know that the idea dates back to David Hume, but Hume did his >work about a century before the term "correlation" acquired its modern >statitical meaning. It certainly wasn't Hume, who's ar

Re: Web programmer for you...

2001-12-08 Thread Vadim and Oxana Marmer
is it "for you!" ? (I hope there are Seinfeld fans here) On 8 Dec 2001, Alexander wrote: > Hello, I am a professional web-programmer. > (php/perl/mySQL/javascript/HTML). > I want to work with you... If you are interested in my help, please > write me: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [E

Re: What usually should be done with missing values when I am conducting a t test or other tests?

2001-12-07 Thread Rich Ulrich
On Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:59:46 GMT, Richard J Burke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > jenny wrote: > > > What should I do with the missing values in my data. I ned to perform > > a t test of two samples to test the mean difference between them. > > > > How should I handle them in S-Plus or SAS? > > > >

Re: Evaluating students: A Statistical Perspective

2001-12-07 Thread Dennis Roberts
At 08:08 PM 12/7/01 +, J. Williams wrote: >On 6 Dec 2001 11:34:20 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dennis Roberts) wrote: > > >if anything, selectivity has decreased at some of these top schools due to > >the fact that given their extremely high tuition ... i was just saying that IF anything had ha

Re: Evaluating students: A Statistical Perspective

2001-12-07 Thread J. Williams
On 6 Dec 2001 11:34:20 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dennis Roberts) wrote: >generally speaking, it is kind of difficult to muster sufficient evidence >that the amount of grade inflation that is observed ... within and across >schools or colleges ... is due to an increase in student ability > >i f

Re: Question about concatenating probability distributions

2001-12-07 Thread Peter Rabinovitch
If the poisson arrival process and the work process are independent, then have a look at Wald's law in (almost) any probability book. For example, the mean amount of work is then simply the product of the means of each RV, in your case: E(amount of work in a fixed time interval)=v*E(U) where U is

Re: When does correlation imply causation?

2001-12-07 Thread Jay Warner
out. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Classic study: Correlation between local stork population and local births. > > -Original Message- > From: Stu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:08 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: When does co

RE: When does correlation imply causation?

2001-12-07 Thread jim clark
Hi On 6 Dec 2001, David Heiser wrote: > Most of the focus is on structural equation modeling (SEM). For > statisticians, a quick referral to Jim Steiger's article "Driving Fast in > Reverse" in JASA March 2001, p331-p338 (if you have it around) is a quick > discourse on SEM and the inherent probl

Re: What usually should be done with missing values when I am conducting

2001-12-06 Thread Richard J Burke
jenny wrote: > What should I do with the missing values in my data. I ned to perform > a t test of two samples to test the mean difference between them. > > How should I handle them in S-Plus or SAS? > > Thanks. > JJ If you are doing paired tests, then the pairs with missing values will have

RE: When does correlation imply causation?

2001-12-06 Thread David Heiser
The issue of causality from the results of fitting a model to data has been a major topic on SEMNET over the last many years. If anyone wishes to pursue ideas on this and related issues, subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Most of the focus is on structural equation modeling (SEM). For statisticians,

Re: Experimental Correlation Coefficients

2001-12-06 Thread Dennis Roberts
i would say that karl has demonstrated that IF we know conditions of manipulation or not ... we can have a better or lesser idea of what (if anything) impacted (caused?) what that i will grant him to argue that r or eta has anything to do with this ... i would respectfully disagree they are

RE: When does correlation imply causation?

2001-12-06 Thread hdaley
Classic study: Correlation between local stork population and local births. -Original Message- From: Stu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: When does correlation imply causation? > My favorite original example is

Re: When does correlation imply causation?

2001-12-06 Thread Art Kendall
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --E98CFE9DA7C53331DB22D947 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it a fair interpretation of what you are saying to say that the process of correlating phenomena needs to be distinguished from the va

Re: Evaluating students: A Statistical Perspective

2001-12-06 Thread Dennis Roberts
generally speaking, it is kind of difficult to muster sufficient evidence that the amount of grade inflation that is observed ... within and across schools or colleges ... is due to an increase in student ability i find it difficult to believe that the average ability at a place like harvard

Re: When does correlation imply causation?

2001-12-06 Thread Dennis Roberts
i repeat ... the r value shows the extent to which a straight line (in a 2 variable problem) can pass through a scatterplot and, be close TO the data points in that sense, r is an index value for the extent to which a straight line MODEL fits the data ... knowing how the dots on the scatterpl

Re: Evaluating students: A Statistical Perspective

2001-12-06 Thread Rich Ulrich
Just in case someone is interested in the Harvard instance that I mentioned -- while you might get the article from a newsstand or a friend -- On Sun, 02 Dec 2001 19:19:38 -0500, Rich Ulrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [ ... ] > > Now, in the NY Times, just a week or two ago. The > dean of und

Re: When does correlation imply causation?

2001-12-06 Thread Alex Yu
Whether we can get causal inferences out of correlation and equations has been a dispute between two camps: For causation: Clark Glymour (Philosopher), Pearl (Computer scientist), James Woodward (Philosopher) Against: Nancy Cartwright (Economist and philosopher), David Freedman (Mathematici

Re: Stat question

2001-12-06 Thread Dennis Roberts
the reality of this is ... sometimes getting notes from other students is helpful ... sometimes it is not ... there is no generalization one can make about this most student who NEED notes are not likely to ask people other than their friends ... and, in doing so, probably know which of their

Re: Gen random numbers from distribution

2001-12-06 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
Jim Snow wrote: > > 1. George Marsaglia and Wal Wan Tsang published a paper dealing with > your problem which gives an efficient procedure for all values of > parameters. It is > > "The Monty Python Method for Generating Gamma Variables" > > in the Journal of Statistical S

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