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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
about
the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar
here is some help info from minitab about trimmed means ...
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Trimmed mean
The trimmed mean (TrMean) is like the mean, but it excludes the most
extreme values in the data set. The highest and lowest 5% of the values
(rounded to the nearest integer) are dropped, and the mean is
w d allen seems not to be happy with the feedback that a few of us sent, in
response to his (apparent) blasting of educators and their understanding
of the median ...
sorry ...
but, as don pointed out ... you provided NO context whatsoever in your
blast ... as to what was said when, and by
MESSAGES are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL
this is not unlike having scores for students in a class ... one score for
each student and ... the age of the teacher of THOSE students ... for a
class ... scores will vary but, age for the teacher remains the same ...
but the age might be different in ANother class with a different teacher
is that the editorial practices are faulty. I
don't find Dennis Roberts' reasons in his 27 Apr message too satisfying.
i was not satisfied with my own list either but, these are reasons why
screw ups do occur
I regularly have students write critiques of articles in their
respective areas
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
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the notion of being able to fix errors in manuscripts that have NOT yet
been published is one thing ... but, the ability to correct glaring errors
in manuscripts PUBLISHED is quite a different story. i have a paper (that i
can't find at the moment ... from either chemistry or physiology i
let's see ... there is a population of 3 different items ... boxes, people,
colors, whatever ... right?
it appears to me that the problem you are presenting is the following:
let's say you take 3 elements, at random and WITH REPLACEMENT, from a
population (with 3 distinct elements)
you take
this list and remarks about
the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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dennis roberts, penn state university
At 09:58 AM 4/26/01 -0500, Herman Rubin wrote:
For the important part, it is ALWAYS appropriate. An
argument against open book is that they spend too much
time looking things up, but I always allow crib sheets.
This way they know that they will get no credit for
memorizing definitions and
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
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each time you use your word processor, you get better AT using it AND its
features
same holds for a decent stat package
the more students practice with it, the better they get with it
and the instructor should help them in this
minitab for example, has tried in recent releases to enhance the
At 09:29 PM 4/26/01 -0500, Christopher Tong wrote:
On 26 Apr 2001, dennis roberts wrote:
i would put a different spin on this ... if students use the crib sheet
(which i let them have too) AND have to depend on it TO remember important
formulas/definitions ... then this works against them
of that is
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
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Instructions for joining
as for the use of t tables ... or any other ...
1. one issue is can the student USE the table ... that is, you specify some
from the table and you want to know if they can find it
2. another issue is what the student knows about what happens in the table
as df changes
3. another issue is
I think that reading the scientific literature would disabuse one
about the limited application of statistical significance. My
students tell me that learning about statistical inference
greatly increases their capacity to read primary
literature. Perhaps it is different in your discipline.\
the way this is usually done is to assign everyone the same grade ... and
THERE is the rub
i am totally surprised that it has taken you 20 years to encounter this
problem ... i would say you have been a mighty LUCKY person!
we have to distinguish between the goal of the group project ... and
that ... also some thoughts about what would be the
2/3 KEY notions one would be attempting to inculcate in students ... with
these examples
thanks
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401
At 01:53 PM 4/24/01 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All though school (elementary, junior and senior high as well as in some
undergraduate college courses) we tend to discourage competition.
say WHAT??? i would say it is JUST THE OPPOSITE ... do the best you can to
get ahead of the next
of course, if one views group work to be important and, wants a good model
for such behavior, it is not academe for sure! while there is lots of group
activity that goes on, committee meetings off the chart, ... by and large
... when it comes to making decisions about faculty, staff,
At 05:35 PM 4/24/01 -0500, Simon, Steve, PhD wrote:
steve has pointed out, undoubtedly, useful references for us to examine ...
my main point is this: while there are many many activities that are and
can be done in groups ... and we need to train to participate in such ...
there are many
alan and others ...
perhaps what my overall concern is ... and others have expressed this from
time to time in varying ways ... is that
1. we tend to teach stat in a vacuum ...
2. and this is not good
the problem this creates is a disconnect from the question development
phase, the measure
***
All views expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily
reflect those of the University of South Dakota, or the South
Dakota Board of Regents.
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC
At 04:42 PM 4/19/01 +, Radford Neal wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
dennis roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't find this persuasive.
nor the reverse ... since we have NO data on any of this ... only our own
notions of how it MIGHT play itself out inside the heads of students
I
At 11:47 AM 4/19/01 -0500, Christopher J. Mecklin wrote:
As a reply to Dennis' comments:
If we deleted the z-test and went right to t-test, I believe that
students' understanding of p-value would be even worse...
i don't follow the logic here ... are you saying that instead of their
one can possibly download mtb for $26 for 6 months ... at
http://www.-e-academy.com/minitab
i am not sure everyone qualifies but, it is worth a try AND is the full
release 13
if you played your cards right ... you can download for FREE for 30 days
and then EXTEND the "lease" after that ...
At 05:29 PM 4/5/01 +, Andrew L. wrote:
I am trying to learn what a t-test will actually tell me, in simple terms.
Dennis Roberts and Paige Miller, have helped alot, but i still dont quite
understand the significance.
neither does most of the world (including myself on the odd numbered days
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
and remarks about
the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
=
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208
for joining and leaving this list and remarks about
the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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dennis roberts
-2014 *
* http://www.people.vcu.edu/~nhenry *
*
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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!doctype html public "-//w3c//
here is my entry for the most common mistake made in statistical inference ...
using and interpreting inference procedures under the assumption of SRS
simple random samples ... when they just can't be
this permeates across almost every technique ... and invades almost every
study ever
many moons ago ... there was a post that referred to a case at MIT ...
where women biology faculty charged sex discrimination in that they thought
their salaries were much lower than they should be ... due to the fact that
they were women
then, there was post after post ... arguing this
we have to first separate out 2 things:
1. some test statistics are naturally (the way they work anyway) ONE sided
with respect to retain/reject decisions
example: chi square test for independence ... we reject ONLY when chi
square is LARGER than some CV ... to put a CV at the lower end of
, 31.24)-1.93 0.068
the p value that is listed is found by taking the area TO THE LEFT of -1.93
and to the RIGHT of +1.93 in a t distribution with 19 df ... and adding
them together
At 08:50 PM 3/13/01 +0100, RD wrote:
On 13 Mar 2001 07:12:33 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (dennis roberts) wrote
http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
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m in place
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
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o draw
these back then ... my hat's off to them
NOW, IF ANYONE THINKS I SHOULD NOT POST THESE ... LET ME KNOW AND I WILL
YANK THEM OFF THE SERVER RIGHT AWAY ...
i just thought this was interesting in light of the post i sent re: normal
curve template
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ED]
111 Cummington Street, room 261, Boston, MA 02215 (617) 353-5288
184 Nashua Road, Bedford, NH 03110 (603) 471-7128
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dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
http://robe
the "act" of "deciding" (using whatever rule/CV you like) to retain the
null or reject the null ... is just that and nothing more
however, you do NOT "act" or "decide" to make a type II error or a type I
error ...
you don't "act" or "decide" to make an incorrect or correct choice ... the
ould make the
case in many instances that aquittal is more important than conviction ...
that is ... power in many cases is a highly overrated CORRECT decision
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dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology, 8148632401
htt
ecial name for THAT cell like we have given
to differentiate the two kinds of errors one can make ...
any support out there to try to right this somewhat ambiguous ship?
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dennis roberts, penn state university
educational psychology,
the original post meant that ... there were multiple tasters ... i had just
put 10 as an example
thus, in the binomial context ... i was assuming (rightfully or wrongfully)
that n=10 ... that is, if we SCORE across the 10 ... we could have scores
of 0 to 10 ... in terms of how many got the
(close to) a t
distribution with n1-1 + n2-1 degrees of freedom?
that is ... i want to set up the "red flag" condition for them ...
what are guidelines (if any) any of you have used in this situation?
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dennis roberts, e
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dennis roberts, educational psychology, penn state university
208 cedar, AC 8148632401, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/drober~1.htm
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would this be like the F being less than 1 ... in a regular anova??? mean
difference not even varying like we would expect them to by chance if null
were true?
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It sort of reminds me of graduate
students coming in with all their data collected and announcing, now
help me make some statistical sense for my dissertation.
or, maybe even worse, using a data set that already exists (maybe part of
some larger project) and SUBVERTINIG/CHANGING the
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