Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Since its not difficult to map all the world on a single USB card (including height information) the plane itself might have enough information to simply refuse to be led to ground under uncontrolled circumstances. Drones (even below 1000 USD) do autonomously return to their point of departure

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
>Or lockout should be impossible unless there are two officers on the flight deck (two security codes needed, not a toggle switch!). That would be simple: to momentary switches to be actuated at the same time with enough physical distance between them Gert Gremmen -Oorspronkelijk berich

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Ed Price
John: "could those in the cabin area be provided with a system whereby, in cases where the cockpit gets "taken over", it could allow them to communicate with the "someone" "somewhere" to alert them of the problems" Hmm, like posting a sign on the bulkhead something like "1-800-gutentag?"

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Allen
John You do have a point - but, actually, there is a much wider one that IACO could consider: that is, in such cases, could those in the cabin area be provided with a system whereby, in cases where the cockpit gets "taken over", it could allow them to communicate with the "someone" "somewhere" to

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message ucpoOcBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, John Allen writes: you think they could conceivably operate consistent and reliable  systems whereby a pilot says "I need a cr*p, please open the cockpit door in 30s", and "someone", "somewhere", has to say " OK", and do th

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Allen
John Military drones analogy? - I don't think so! In those cases you have dedicated (at least) two-man teams flying 1 drone each on a specific operation. In the real-life civil aviation industry, you have thousands of simultaneous flights "from here to there " controlled by hundreds of

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message kQ8nscBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, John Allen writes: Not realistic for a huge raft of reasons: air-to-ground-to-air time-delays, comms issues, EMI issues, language issues, situational awareness issues - need I go on? !! L Those factors may be taken into a

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Allen
Not realistic for a huge raft of reasons: air-to-ground-to-air time-delays, comms issues, EMI issues, language issues, situational awareness issues - need I go on? !! L -Original Message- From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: 01 April 2015 19:29 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSE

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message <01d06ca9$c89b05e0$59d111a0$@westin-emission.no>, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Amund Westin writes: Doors should be opened by ground control officers via radio. Or lockout should be impossible unless there are two officers on the flight deck (two security codes needed, not a toggle

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message .com>, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Brian Oconnell writes: Is the failure of internal personel an extension of 'forseeable misuse' ? It's foreseeable, but I leave it to Mr. Nute to say whether it's 'misuse' or something else. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.d

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Brian Oconnell
In another life, long ago, in a galaxy far away, was a member of a squadron that frequently deployed detachments to isolated and not nice places. Our security model was based 99% on exogenous events/effects. The only internal influence considered was weapons proficiency and material assignment f

[PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Amund Westin
Doors should be opened by ground control officers via radio. -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sendt: 1. april 2015 18:38 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Emne: Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash These type doors became mandatory after 9/11. Boeing wa

Re: [PSES] NEC vs CEC for Transformer Protection

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message <64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026D7789@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local>, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, "Kunde, Brian" writes: It would seem our only option is to add overcurrent protection to the secondary side of the transformer so we can size the Primary OPD so not to nuisance trip due

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message , dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Ken Javor writes: These type doors became mandatory after 9/11. Boeing was sued after 9/11 because these type doors had not been installed. What is the manufacturer to do? I feel that Boeing and Airbus have enough clout to get bad decisions by FAA, ICAO

Re: [PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking & instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message , dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Scott Xe writes: I received the attached IEC info for 5017 and wondering if it is also outdated. Of course; it is 13 years old and is only a liaison document from TC16 to TC3, not a TC3 committee document. TC3/SC3C clearly hasn't changed 5017 in the past

Re: [PSES] NEC vs CEC for Transformer Protection

2015-04-01 Thread Kunde, Brian
To all, thank you for some great input. Many of you explained the science behind protecting a transformer from overheating but unfortunately the CSA inspector don't care, nor has the authority to make a decision or ruling; he can only apply what the CEC says in this case, which really limits ou

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Pete Perkins
Ken et al, John has made a good point here. Ken's question points to the need for backup measures which seem to be process oriented. In the USA the requirement is reported to be that there always be two people in the cockpit; when one pilot leaves then one of the cabin staff steps inside

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Ken Javor
These type doors became mandatory after 9/11. Boeing was sued after 9/11 because these type doors had not been installed. What is the manufacturer to do? Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 > From: John Woodgate > Reply-To: John Woodgate > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 17:08:07 +0100 > To: > Subject: [P

[PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
There is a general safety lesson to be learned, which needs to be applied to every risk analysis. An irrecoverable situation (flight deck door locked from inside and opening denied) cannot be accepted even if the probability of a bad result appears vanishingly small. This post is not meant to

Re: [PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking & instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message utlook.com>, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, "Nyffenegger, Dave" writes: EN 60204-1:2006 and EN 60950-1:2006 define requirements for the use of those symbols (and the two are not entirely consistent).  So if you are applying those standards He isn't: the Subject line says EN 60335-1 -- O

Re: [PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking & instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message <93c5791b-7130-4436-a0a5-0c79f441e...@gmail.com>, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Scott Xe writes: The standard calls for IEC 60417 for the symbols.  Currently there are 3 symbols to serve different purposes. 1. IEC 60417 - 5017: General earthing 2. IEC 60417 - 5018: Functional earthing 3.

Re: [PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking & instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread Nyffenegger, Dave
EN 60204-1:2006 and EN 60950-1:2006 define requirements for the use of those symbols (and the two are not entirely consistent). So if you are applying those standards I'd assume the symbol usage will still apply as stated until those standards are revised, regardless of what the IEC does. -Dav

[PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking & instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread Scott Xe
The standard calls for IEC 60417 for the symbols. Currently there are 3 symbols to serve different purposes. 1. IEC 60417 - 5017: General earthing 2. IEC 60417 - 5018: Functional earthing 3. IEC 60417 - 5019: Protective earthing 5017 is being proposed to be withdrawn according to IEC discussion

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

2015-04-01 Thread Nyffenegger, Dave
I recall most if not all of the Acme products were delivered by USPS. I believe Wile E had an Amazon account. -Dave -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 2:12 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic ins

Re: [PSES] Absorption testing ASTM D 4935

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message , dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Julian Jones writes: We have had an enquiry from a customer about testing their special  copper foam material which is used as a heat sink and also doped with some ferrous materials to improve RF absorption. I realise copper doesn?t have great properties

[PSES] Absorption testing ASTM D 4935

2015-04-01 Thread Julian Jones
Hello All, We have had an enquiry from a customer about testing their special copper foam material which is used as a heat sink and also doped with some ferrous materials to improve RF absorption. I realise copper doesn't have great properties as an RF absorber as standard. We have no experti