Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message !!AAAYAEGjmYsMtGZAuvo7rFLQ++figAAAELUXfMusF3RGmHp9E 2mI4mMBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk, dated Tue, 31 Mar 2015, John Allen john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk writes: And so what has actually changed with today's get rich quick senior managers of both types in the last

[PSES] Absorption testing ASTM D 4935

2015-04-01 Thread Julian Jones
Hello All, We have had an enquiry from a customer about testing their special copper foam material which is used as a heat sink and also doped with some ferrous materials to improve RF absorption. I realise copper doesn't have great properties as an RF absorber as standard. We have no

Re: [PSES] Absorption testing ASTM D 4935

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message D7E9B3C7419B3F41B63AB79347D7D6C768C910BD3D@HEMC08.hemcs.local, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Julian Jones ju...@hursley-emc.co.uk writes: We have had an enquiry from a customer about testing their special  copper foam material which is used as a heat sink and also doped with some ferrous

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

2015-04-01 Thread Nyffenegger, Dave
I recall most if not all of the Acme products were delivered by USPS. I believe Wile E had an Amazon account. -Dave -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 2:12 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message 006001d06c0b$4a2bd110$de837330$@cox.net, dated Tue, 31 Mar 2015, Ed Price edpr...@cox.net writes: I beg to differ with you when you say that a conviction of technical superiority is a 50-year old dinosaur attitude . I don't think you do disagree about the nature of the attitude.

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message 005401d06c08$335793a0$9a06bae0$@cox.net, dated Tue, 31 Mar 2015, Ed Price edpr...@cox.net writes: Yet it must be noted that Mr. Coyote never brought suit against the Acme Company, despite a long history on non-compliant and generally unsuitable products whose use often resulted in

[PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread Scott Xe
The standard calls for IEC 60417 for the symbols. Currently there are 3 symbols to serve different purposes. 1. IEC 60417 - 5017: General earthing 2. IEC 60417 - 5018: Functional earthing 3. IEC 60417 - 5019: Protective earthing 5017 is being proposed to be withdrawn according to IEC

Re: [PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message 93c5791b-7130-4436-a0a5-0c79f441e...@gmail.com, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: The standard calls for IEC 60417 for the symbols.  Currently there are 3 symbols to serve different purposes. 1. IEC 60417 - 5017: General earthing 2. IEC 60417 - 5018:

Re: [PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread Nyffenegger, Dave
EN 60204-1:2006 and EN 60950-1:2006 define requirements for the use of those symbols (and the two are not entirely consistent). So if you are applying those standards I'd assume the symbol usage will still apply as stated until those standards are revised, regardless of what the IEC does.

Re: [PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message bn3pr0801mb0979b779f7547b8b2a22ea6385...@bn3pr0801mb0979.namprd08.prod.o utlook.com, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Nyffenegger, Dave dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com writes: EN 60204-1:2006 and EN 60950-1:2006 define requirements for the use of those symbols (and the two are not entirely

[PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
There is a general safety lesson to be learned, which needs to be applied to every risk analysis. An irrecoverable situation (flight deck door locked from inside and opening denied) cannot be accepted even if the probability of a bad result appears vanishingly small. This post is not meant to

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Since its not difficult to map all the world on a single USB card (including height information) the plane itself might have enough information to simply refuse to be led to ground under uncontrolled circumstances. Drones (even below 1000 USD) do autonomously return to their point of departure

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Ed Price
John: could those in the cabin area be provided with a system whereby, in cases where the cockpit gets taken over, it could allow them to communicate with the someone somewhere to alert them of the problems Hmm, like posting a sign on the bulkhead something like 1-800-gutentag? Ed

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Or lockout should be impossible unless there are two officers on the flight deck (two security codes needed, not a toggle switch!). That would be simple: to momentary switches to be actuated at the same time with enough physical distance between them Gert Gremmen -Oorspronkelijk

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Ken Javor
These type doors became mandatory after 9/11. Boeing was sued after 9/11 because these type doors had not been installed. What is the manufacturer to do? Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Reply-To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 1 Apr

Re: [PSES] NEC vs CEC for Transformer Protection

2015-04-01 Thread Kunde, Brian
To all, thank you for some great input. Many of you explained the science behind protecting a transformer from overheating but unfortunately the CSA inspector don't care, nor has the authority to make a decision or ruling; he can only apply what the CEC says in this case, which really limits

Re: [PSES] Earth symbols required in clause 7 marking instructions of EN 60335-1

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message edc30b20-1d80-413d-9ca1-1c9a16fdb...@gmail.com, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: I received the attached IEC info for 5017 and wondering if it is also outdated. Of course; it is 13 years old and is only a liaison document from TC16 to TC3, not a TC3

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message d1418932.6b4da%ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com writes: These type doors became mandatory after 9/11. Boeing was sued after 9/11 because these type doors had not been installed. What is the manufacturer to do? I feel that

Re: [PSES] NEC vs CEC for Transformer Protection

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message 64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026D7789@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes: It would seem our only option is to add overcurrent protection to the secondary side of the transformer so we can size the Primary OPD so not to

[PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Amund Westin
Doors should be opened by ground control officers via radio. -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sendt: 1. april 2015 18:38 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Emne: Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash These type doors became mandatory after 9/11. Boeing

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message 01d06ca9$c89b05e0$59d111a0$@westin-emission.no, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Amund Westin am...@westin-emission.no writes: Doors should be opened by ground control officers via radio. Or lockout should be impossible unless there are two officers on the flight deck (two security

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Brian Oconnell
In another life, long ago, in a galaxy far away, was a member of a squadron that frequently deployed detachments to isolated and not nice places. Our security model was based 99% on exogenous events/effects. The only internal influence considered was weapons proficiency and material assignment

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message blupr02mb116c0fcff82f2c7c839ec69c1...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook .com, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Is the failure of internal personel an extension of 'forseeable misuse' ? It's foreseeable, but I leave it to Mr. Nute to say

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message !!AAAYAEGjmYsMtGZAuvo7rFLQ++figAAAEIikrBPlu6RNlut8A ucpoOcBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, John Allen john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk writes: you think they could conceivably operate consistent and reliable  systems whereby a pilot says I need a

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Allen
John You do have a point - but, actually, there is a much wider one that IACO could consider: that is, in such cases, could those in the cabin area be provided with a system whereby, in cases where the cockpit gets taken over, it could allow them to communicate with the someone somewhere to

Re: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread Pete Perkins
Ken et al, John has made a good point here. Ken's question points to the need for backup measures which seem to be process oriented. In the USA the requirement is reported to be that there always be two people in the cockpit; when one pilot leaves then one of the cabin staff steps

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Woodgate
In message !!AAAYAEGjmYsMtGZAuvo7rFLQ++figAAAEFC36QsFDqtAlNsc1 kQ8nscBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk, dated Wed, 1 Apr 2015, John Allen john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk writes: Not realistic for a huge raft of reasons: air-to-ground-to-air time-delays, comms issues, EMI issues,

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Allen
John Military drones analogy? - I don't think so! In those cases you have dedicated (at least) two-man teams flying 1 drone each on a specific operation. In the real-life civil aviation industry, you have thousands of simultaneous flights from here to there controlled by hundreds of

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Germanwings crash

2015-04-01 Thread John Allen
Not realistic for a huge raft of reasons: air-to-ground-to-air time-delays, comms issues, EMI issues, language issues, situational awareness issues - need I go on? !! L -Original Message- From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: 01 April 2015 19:29 To: