Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Feb 2014, at 19:59, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, February 2, 2014 4:36:46 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Feb 2014, at 21:12, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, February 1, 2014 2:16:43 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Feb 2014, at 13:13, Craig Weinberg wrote: On

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Feb 2014, at 19:36, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 4:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Although it doesn't necessarily follow the digital transformation of consciousness is perfectly consistent with the matter in the desk I'm pounding my hand on right now as simply be

Re: A humble suggestion to the group

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
Yes, it's in response to that. It just struck me that although the original couldn't get out on his own, the duplicates he created could still help him escape. On 3 February 2014 20:33, Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:58 PM, LizR wrote: > >> >> Once there were a thousand duplicate

Re: A humble suggestion to the group

2014-02-02 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:58 PM, LizR wrote: > > Once there were a thousand duplicates at the top of the pit, couldn't they > knot toegther their heavy coats and make a rope to pull out the "original" > still stuck in the pit? > > Or am I being too literal minded here? :-) > What is this in respo

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 10:12 PM, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: Namely that however you jig it, there's still going to be huge spacetime distortion representing the sun and a tiny one representing the earth, which - I thought - had to bias the objectively true relation between the sun and the earth for the earth

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread ghibbsa
On Monday, February 3, 2014 6:12:18 AM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Monday, February 3, 2014 5:38:59 AM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, February 2, 2014 11:32:26 PM UTC, jessem wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 5:13 PM, wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, February

Films I think people on this forum might like

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
One I've mentioned ad nauseum - "Memento". There is also "The Prestige", which I would definitely recommend. To avoid spoilers, I won't go into detail about why these films might appeal, but they both address issues mentioned on this list (at least tangentially, and in a fictional manner). I mig

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread ghibbsa
On Monday, February 3, 2014 5:38:59 AM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, February 2, 2014 11:32:26 PM UTC, jessem wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 5:13 PM, wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, February 2, 2014 8:44:07 PM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, February 2, 2014

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 10:09:10 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: > > Thanks for quoting the Chalmers piece because I didn't have it to hand and > was relying on memory. But on rereading it I still believe that my way of > formulating the paradox has teeth. Although Chalmers admits in this pass

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread ghibbsa
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 11:32:26 PM UTC, jessem wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 5:13 PM, > wrote: > > > On Sunday, February 2, 2014 8:44:07 PM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, February 2, 2014 3:45:24 PM UTC, jessem wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 7:13 AM, wrote: >

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 4:43 PM, David Nyman wrote: As Brent has remarked, it is still possible to hold on to the hope that the physical appearances, however much they appear to be exhaustive and causally closed, still conceal some truly unexpected nomological necessitation that will suffice to account for

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 3:35 PM, LizR wrote: On 3 February 2014 08:03, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 2/2/2014 1:44 AM, LizR wrote: Someone asked how a block universe "comes to exist" and if it comes into existence "all at once, or a bit at a time" (or something like that).

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 3:17 PM, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, February 2, 2014 9:16:09 PM UTC, Brent wrote: On 2/2/2014 12:44 PM, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, February 2, 2014 3:45:24 PM UTC, jessem wrote: On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 7:13 AM, wrote: ... It's funny b

Re: A humble suggestion to the group

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
Once there were a thousand duplicates at the top of the pit, couldn't they knot toegther their heavy coats and make a rope to pull out the "original" still stuck in the pit? Or am I being too literal minded here? :-) On 3 February 2014 16:50, Jason Resch wrote: > Telmo, > > Thanks for pointing

Re: A humble suggestion to the group

2014-02-02 Thread Jason Resch
Telmo, Thanks for pointing that out. I believe I have resolved the issues and it appears to be working now: http://everythingwiki.gcn.cx/wiki2/ Enjoy. Jason On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:07 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > Hi Jason, > > The wiki doesn't seem to be working :( I get a 404... > > Cheers

Re: How to define finite

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
Ooh, tricky - could that be Brent Meeker or Bruno Marchal being quoted? (I have my suspicions of course... :-) BM: But mathematical truth is not substituted for reality. i show that the machine's epistemology is already richer than the mathematical truth. -- You received this message because you

Re: How to define finite

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 2:36 PM, John Mikes wrote: You just scolded John Mikes for assuming he knew what reality is. Brent Brent: could you refresh my aging memory and 'quote me' with this stupid misunderstanding? It was last time yesterday when I wrote the opposite. Here's the exchange:

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
Thanks for quoting the Chalmers piece because I didn't have it to hand and was relying on memory. But on rereading it I still believe that my way of formulating the paradox has teeth. Although Chalmers admits in this passage that consciousness looks explanatorily irrelevant to phenomenal judgement

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 7:43:33 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: > > On 2 February 2014 19:48, Craig Weinberg > > wrote: > > What do you mean by "laying claim to conscious phenomena"? In what way >> does a brain or body lay claim to conscious phenomena? > > > Let me restate it then. Bodies, ins

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
On 1 February 2014 09:12, Bruno Marchal wrote: > It would seem so. But POPJ can still bite panpsychism, I think, although > this doesn't seem to be widely recognised. My post to Craig elaborates on > this. > > I am afraid he is too much vague to be really bitten. but you can put him > in the corn

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
On 2 February 2014 19:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: > After all, Craig, if it were that simple wouldn't it be rather likely that >> someone other than yourself might have noticed this? >> > This is where you reveal that you are really only interested in humbling > me, and are willing to resort to the

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
On 2 February 2014 19:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: You see little because you want to be right. There is more to see, but you > will have to change your mind to see it. I presume you aren't implying that I will have to change my mind so that I want to be wrong? -- You received this message becau

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
On 2 February 2014 19:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: What do you mean by "laying claim to conscious phenomena"? In what way does > a brain or body lay claim to conscious phenomena? Let me restate it then. Bodies, insofar as they are the manifestations with which we interact (own brains and bodies in

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 12:36 PM, John Clark wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 4:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> Although it doesn't necessarily follow the digital transformation >> of consciousness is perfectly co

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 08:03, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/2/2014 1:44 AM, LizR wrote: > > Someone asked how a block universe "comes to exist" and if it comes into > existence "all at once, or a bit at a time" (or something like that). > > I wish I could find the original question, to make sure exactly w

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread Jesse Mazer
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 5:13 PM, wrote: > > On Sunday, February 2, 2014 8:44:07 PM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, February 2, 2014 3:45:24 PM UTC, jessem wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 7:13 AM, wrote: >>> Jesse - if the assumption is a fundamental ge

Re: Edge.org: 2014 : WHAT SCIENTIFIC IDEA IS READY FOR RETIREMENT? The Computational Metaphor

2014-02-02 Thread John Mikes
Brent, lt me skip my frequently written argument about 'mishaps' that happen in our 'correct' predictions (like falling off airplanes from the sky, striking sicknesses with no known reason, failed economical predictions etc. etc..) Allow me to quote an old Hungarian proverb (they are smart in many

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
On 2 February 2014 19:31, meekerdb wrote: On 2/2/2014 5:37 AM, David Nyman wrote: > > Craig, nothing you have said so far diminishes by a single iota the > significance of the paradox to your theory. It's not so easy to disarm it > as insouciantly interpolating armfuls of non-sequiturs couched i

Re: Edge.org: 2014 : WHAT SCIENTIFIC IDEA IS READY FOR RETIREMENT? The Computational Metaphor

2014-02-02 Thread John Mikes
Bruno wrote (among many others) on Feb 1 in replying to my post of Jan 31: *...mathematical truth is not substituted for reality. i show that the machine's epistemology is already richer than the mathematical truth. * *Then, yes, for the ontology, IF we assume comp, then the mathematical, even th

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread ghibbsa
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 9:16:09 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > On 2/2/2014 12:44 PM, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, February 2, 2014 3:45:24 PM UTC, jessem wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 7:13 AM, wrote: >> >>> >>> Jesse - if the assumption is a fundamental geometry akin

Re: How to define finite

2014-02-02 Thread John Mikes
You just scolded John Mikes for assuming he knew what reality is. Brent Brent: could you refresh my aging memory and 'quote me' with this stupid misunderstanding? It was last time yesterday when I wrote the opposite. I do not joke about being agnostic, especially in cases what I 'assume', like 't

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 08:31, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/2/2014 5:37 AM, David Nyman wrote: > > Craig, nothing you have said so far diminishes by a single iota the > significance of the paradox to your theory. It's not so easy to disarm it > as insouciantly interpolating armfuls of non-sequiturs couched

Re: A news service run by philosophers

2014-02-02 Thread John Mikes
Thanx, Brent, - I subscribed to the php - did not join Twitter (what they wanted for subscription to 'PhilosopherMail'). John M On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 4:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: > My new online news source. Forget "Fair and Balanced"; it's > "Comtemplative and Significant". > > Brent > > >

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 08:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: > Your idea of my theory must be very different from mine. > > You appear to have Edgar-itis - "I have a theory which I can't explain clearly, nor can I defend it against criticism except by insisting that nobody understands it". -- You received t

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 08:05, meekerdb wrote: > On 2/2/2014 1:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Exactly. The only thing lagging is the AI. > > > More or less, but "AI" is a bit relative. I agree with Hofstadter "AI" > is when the program are not yet written, and once written we take them as > conve

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 02:37, David Nyman wrote: > Chalmers knows he has put his finger on a stark contradiction - a paradox > in fact - and he is intellectually honest enough to acknowledge its force. > He shows that it should lead us to the conclusion - per impossibile - that > we ourselves are in

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 00:04, Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > > Hi Telmo, > > > > No, because I don't have to remember that my clock moved. I can actually > > OBSERVE it in the process of moving. That's one of many reasons block > times > > including Br

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 12:36 PM, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 4:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Although it doesn't necessarily follow the digital transformation of > consciousness is perfectly consistent with the matter in the desk I'm > pounding my hand on rig

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread ghibbsa
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 8:44:07 PM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, February 2, 2014 3:45:24 PM UTC, jessem wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 7:13 AM, wrote: >> >>> >>> Jesse - if the assumption is a fundamental geometry akin to the surface >>> of a world, and if the

Fwd: A news service run by philosophers

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
My new online news source. Forget "Fair and Balanced"; it's "Comtemplative and Significant". Brent Original Message http://www.philosophersmail.com/WHAT.php /The Philosopher's Mail is a new news organisation, based in bureaux in London, NYC and Melbourne, run and staffed

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 12:44 PM, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, February 2, 2014 3:45:24 PM UTC, jessem wrote: On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 7:13 AM, > wrote: Jesse - if the assumption is a fundamental geometry akin to the surface of a world, and if the speed of light is constant,

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 03:29, David Nyman wrote: > On 2 February 2014 05:40, LizR wrote: > > Phew. At least it isn't just me who has this reaction. Maybe Craig and >> Edgar can get together and form a church whose motto is "I am right, and if >> you don't realise that it's because your little brain

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread ghibbsa
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 3:45:24 PM UTC, jessem wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 7:13 AM, > wrote: > >> >> Jesse - if the assumption is a fundamental geometry akin to the surface >> of a world, and if the speed of light is constant, then you could draw dots >> around that world for exa

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 5:37 AM, David Nyman wrote: Craig, nothing you have said so far diminishes by a single iota the significance of the paradox to your theory. It's not so easy to disarm it as insouciantly interpolating armfuls of non-sequiturs couched in an impenetrable private jargon. You quote Chalme

Re: Tegmark's new book

2014-02-02 Thread Richard Ruquist
Having just read arXiv:1401.1219 [pdf, other] Title: Consciousness as a State of Matter, my take on its conclusion is that human consciousness cannot be understood on the basis of classical or quantum mechanics- the former yields only a max of 37 bits and the latter even less. Richard On Sat, Feb

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 4:13 AM, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: Jesse - if the assumption is a fundamental geometry akin to the surface of a world, and if the speed of light is constant, then you could draw dots around that world for exact intervals of the speed of light, in which case the light arrives at each p

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 3:04 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >Hi Telmo, > >No, because I don't have to remember that my clock moved. I can actually >OBSERVE it in the process of moving. That's one of many reasons block times >including Bruno's don't make sense

Re: How to define finite

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 2:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Feb 2014, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: Maybe we can convert Bruno to Aristotelanism: https://web.math.princeton.edu/~nelson/papers/e.pdf That can convince the inner god (the soul, S4Grz) of Brouwerism (modern Aristotelism about that infinity qu

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 6:18:28 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, January 31, 2014 8:28:38 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Craig Weinberg > >> wrote: > >> >

Re: Edge.org: 2014 : WHAT SCIENTIFIC IDEA IS READY FOR RETIREMENT? The Computational Metaphor

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 2:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Dear John, On 01 Feb 2014, at 23:29, John Mikes wrote: Dear Bruno, allow me NOT to repeat the entire shabang with only 'interjecing' some remarks. My main problem is the "theorem" ("theory, hypothesis" or call it anyway you wish) of which - in my o

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 1:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Exactly. The only thing lagging is the AI. More or less, but "AI" is a bit relative. I agree with Hofstadter "AI" is when the program are not yet written, and once written we take them as conventional programming. That is not strictly true, but there

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2014 1:44 AM, LizR wrote: Someone asked how a block universe "comes to exist" and if it comes into existence "all at once, or a bit at a time" (or something like that). I wish I could find the original question, to make sure exactly what it was. But I haven't managed to find it, and I c

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 4:36:46 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 01 Feb 2014, at 21:12, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Saturday, February 1, 2014 2:16:43 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 01 Feb 2014, at 13:13, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, February 1, 2014

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
I will come back on this when I have time, but - to continue my suggestions re SF stories - "Flux" by Michael Moorcock addresses the "momentary frog question" rather nicely. Philosophically, at least, it is always possible that we ARE just momentary frogs. On 3 February 2014 03:19, David Nyman w

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 4:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Although it doesn't necessarily follow the digital transformation of consciousness is perfectly consistent with the matter in the desk I'm pounding my hand on right now as simply being a subroutine in the johnkclak program,

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 10:04:35 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: > > On 2 February 2014 03:52, Craig Weinberg > > wrote: > > It's because you don't listen, and then project that quality onto me. It's >> very common I've found. Not everyone is that way though. I have many >> productive convers

Re: Tegmark's new book

2014-02-02 Thread Jason Resch
I am about 1/3rd though it now. So far it is an interesting read, and I have learned quite a bit about about cosmology. I have not gotten to any of his ideas about multiple universes or mathematical reality yet. Jason On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 2:53 PM, LizR wrote: > A consensus?!? Here??? > > Ex

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Feb 2014, at 23:48, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 2 February 2014 08:41, Bruno Marchal wrote: There can be no zombies if consciousness is epiphenomenal. Just to be sure, I agree with that. I asked "why?" because I was thinking at the meta-level. The problem, is that if we can conc

Re: How to define finite

2014-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Feb 2014, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: Maybe we can convert Bruno to Aristotelanism: https://web.math.princeton.edu/~nelson/papers/e.pdf That can convince the inner god (the soul, S4Grz) of Brouwerism (modern Aristotelism about that infinity question). But the inner God is already co

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Feb 2014, at 19:55, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: then feel free to "invoke some non-comp" or invoke more "comp" if that floats your boat, I no longer care. I've given up trying to find a consistent definition of your silly little word "co

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > I stated that A began his trip from earth ORBIT, not from blasting off > from earth's surface, so A's acceleration is 1g for the ENTIRE trip. > Then each would see the others clock as running slower than his own. You might think this would

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Feb 2014, at 21:21, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Bruno, A mathematical ordering is static and does NOT move. Nor even "not not move". Those physical categories don't apply. It is not a flowing time. OK. Doesn't matter if you claim there is some 1p perspective that is a mathematical o

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Feb 2014, at 21:12, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, February 1, 2014 2:16:43 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Feb 2014, at 13:13, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, February 1, 2014 4:54:47 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 Jan 2014, at 21:39, Craig Weinberg wrote: >

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Feb 2014, at 23:12, meekerdb wrote: On 2/1/2014 2:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Feb 2014, at 06:48, meekerdb wrote: On 1/31/2014 9:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: We are potentially immortal in the same way as a car can potentially survive indefinitely provided parts can be r

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread Jesse Mazer
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 7:13 AM, wrote: > > Jesse - if the assumption is a fundamental geometry akin to the surface of > a world, and if the speed of light is constant, then you could draw dots > around that world for exact intervals of the speed of light, in which case > the light arrives at each

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
On 2 February 2014 03:52, Craig Weinberg wrote: It's because you don't listen, and then project that quality onto me. It's > very common I've found. Not everyone is that way though. I have many > productive conversations with people also. That would be hard to explain if > it was my fault. It's

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
On 2 February 2014 05:40, LizR wrote: Phew. At least it isn't just me who has this reaction. Maybe Craig and > Edgar can get together and form a church whose motto is "I am right, and if > you don't realise that it's because your little brain can't grasp my > magnificent theory." > > They could c

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
On 2 February 2014 03:42, LizR wrote: To answer the question about the frogs. We imagine we are an "extended > frog" because of memory; without it we really would be stuck in the present > moment, a series of individual isolated moments - and completely unable to > function, of course. (If you ha

Re: The Robot and the Wizard

2014-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 2, 2014 6:51:32 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Friday, January 31, 2014 3:54:54 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >>> >>> Like, wow. Nice picture (I'm tempted to say it makes a lot more sense >>> tha

Re: The Robot and the Wizard

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
Me too :) I may get a bit tetchy about your logic but I can still appreciate the visuals! David On 2 February 2014 11:51, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> >> >> On Friday, January 31, 2014 3:54:54 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >>> >>> Like, wow

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread David Nyman
Craig, nothing you have said so far diminishes by a single iota the significance of the paradox to your theory. It's not so easy to disarm it as insouciantly interpolating armfuls of non-sequiturs couched in an impenetrable private jargon. You quote Chalmers, but you consistently dodge (or perhaps

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Brent, and anyone else who wants to answer, First, thanks for your patience and consideration in answering my questions. I appreciate it, and hope you will also take the time to address what I see is the crux of the journey to the center of the galaxy case below. To review: the case of A trave

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Brent, The "centrifuge" is totally unnecessary because B back on earth already IS experiencing the exact same 1g gravitational acceleration that A is. B doesn't need any centrifuge to experience 1g. That's why those specs were part of my case, so acceleration could be discounted... Edgar O

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-02 Thread ghibbsa
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 6:21:41 PM UTC, jessem wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Edgar L. Owen > > wrote: > >> Jesse, >> >> Yes, that "being at the same point in spacetime" is CALLED the present >> moment that I'm talking about. >> > > > But your present moment goes beyond

Re: The Robot and the Wizard

2014-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Friday, January 31, 2014 3:54:54 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >> >> Like, wow. Nice picture (I'm tempted to say it makes a lot more sense >> than some posts around here!) >> > > Hehe, thanks! I got accepted to do a poster presentation at t

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Liz, Great avatar :) On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 10:44 AM, LizR wrote: > Someone asked how a block universe "comes to exist" and if it comes into > existence "all at once, or a bit at a time" (or something like that). > > I wish I could find the original question, to make sure exactly what it was.

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Friday, January 31, 2014 8:28:38 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Craig Weinberg >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Friday, January 31, 2014 8:08:32 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Edgar, >

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > Hi Telmo, > > No, because I don't have to remember that my clock moved. I can actually > OBSERVE it in the process of moving. That's one of many reasons block times > including Bruno's don't make sense. Could you observe the clock moving if

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
Someone asked how a block universe "comes to exist" and if it comes into existence "all at once, or a bit at a time" (or something like that). I wish I could find the original question, to make sure exactly what it was. But I haven't managed to find it, and I can't spend all night trawling the for