Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 11/26/2014 4:59 PM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: >> I insist also to distinguish intelligence from competence. > My understanding is that intelligence refers to learning ability and behavior adaptability to novel cir

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 11/26/2014 4:49 PM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 6:01 PM, meekerdb > wrote: >> If Evolution just stumbled onto consciousness because a astronomically unlikely mutation occurred and not because it was the byproduct of intelligence then

Re: Two apparently different forms of entropy

On 27 November 2014 at 04:51, spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Entropy and Time seem related, or at least one seems at least one aspect > of the other. Is it sensible to think then, that there are two or more > types of entropy, therefore, there are at le

Re: Two apparently different forms of entropy

On 27 November 2014 at 01:29, Richard Ruquist wrote: > Turns out that I do not understand it either. > The pinhole thought experiment should decrease the coherent photons > by a factor of 2 regardless of whether the incoherent photons > are in separate branches or not. > So the result is the same

Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?

On 26 November 2014 at 22:05, wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:50:00 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: >> >> And I said that it seemed to me that if dark matter was being destroyed >> galaxies should be expanding, and asked if there was any observational >> evidence to support this. >> > > Liz, you

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 11/26/2014 4:41 PM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: > I don't think human consciousness is a spandrel If consciousness does not effect intelligent behavior and if Darwin's Theory is correct then there is no alternative, That assum

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 meekerdb wrote: >> I insist also to distinguish intelligence from competence. >> > > > My understanding is that intelligence refers to learning ability and > behavior adaptability to novel circumstances. Competence is being able to > act effectively in a given circumstance

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 6:01 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> If Evolution just stumbled onto consciousness because a astronomically >> unlikely mutation occurred and not because it was the byproduct of >> intelligence then it would be of neutral survival value and the human race >> would have lost that p

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 meekerdb wrote: > I don't think human consciousness is a spandrel > If consciousness does not effect intelligent behavior and if Darwin's Theory is correct then there is no alternative, consciousness is a spandrel. And if consciousness does effect intelligent behavior then

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 11/26/2014 10:28 AM, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 6:56 PM, meekerdb > wrote: > I don't agree with John that intelligence is necessarily accompanied by human-like consciousness. His argument is based on evolution, i.e. that if intelligenc

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 11/26/2014 11:23 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 , Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: > I agree that consciousness is not intelligence. I agree also. > An entity can be competent, without intelligence [...] An entity can be intelligent, without competen

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 11/26/2014 9:53 AM, John Clark wrote: No that is not fine. I DEFINE intelligence just as everybody else does, the ability to find novel solutions to new problems, the greater the variety of problems the greater the intelligence. I DEDUCE that if intelligent beings can be non-conscious then D

Re: real A.I.

Have you read "The Genocides" by Thomas M Disch? Super-intelligent entities trying to destroy us, but only in the same way we try to eradicate aphids from an orchard. On 27 November 2014 at 02:42, Telmo Menezes wrote: > Nice :) > > One of the funny things about our sense of self-importance is t

Re: My latest crossword

Yes, I will post the solution ... but not quite yet. In the meantime I have revised a few clues I wasn't happy with, so maybe that will help. I can also supply hints on request :-) Also if you aren't familiar with cryptic crosswords, this may help... http://www.elnitsky.com/cryptic On 27 Nove

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 , Bruno Marchal wrote: > I agree that consciousness is not intelligence. > I agree also. > An entity can be competent, without intelligence [...] An entity can be > intelligent, without competence > I don't understand the distinction, but I do know that competence means h

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > I am questioning that our current set of tools is adequate for the > problem of creating human-level AI, > I don't think there is any doubt about it, a human-level AI does not exist today because neither we nor computers currently have all

Re: Quantum Mechanics Violation of the Second Law

Hi everyone Not much of a response... answering the two questions below: Answer to question 1: If air is forcefully convected in a column having an isothermal temperature gradient, the column shifts toward an adiabatic gradient. Paradoxically, mixing does not equalize temperature, as is well

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 6:56 PM, meekerdb wrote: > > I don't agree with John that intelligence is necessarily accompanied by > human-like consciousness. His argument is based on evolution, i.e. that if > intelligence could exist without consciousness then it would evolved that > way. But evolu

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 5:00 PM, LizR wrote: >> >>> I don't think John's post implied that "conscious" was another word >>> for "intelligence". I think his position is that a being could be >>> conscious without being intelligent (which would be consistent with "aware >>> of one's self and surr

Re: Two apparently different forms of entropy

Entropy and Time seem related, or at least one seems at least one aspect of the other. Is it sensible to think then, that there are two or more types of entropy, therefore, there are at least two dimensions of time? -Original Message- From: Richard Ruquist To: everything-list Sent:

Re: real A.I.

Nice :) One of the funny things about our sense of self-importance is that we imagine super-intelligent entities trying to destroy us, but we rarely consider the possibility that they would just have no desire to interact with us. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 8:00 PM, meekerdb wrote: > http://xkcd.

Re: My latest crossword

I shouldn't have clicked this. Please tell me you will post the solutions so I can have some peace. On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 7:36 PM, LizR wrote: > > http://mayaofauckland.wordpress.com/2014/11/25/do-quantum-mechanics-overcharge-not-after-renormalisation/ > > In case anyone out there is into cryp

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

I agree that it's applicable to any imaginable goal, this is the usual prisoner's dilemma. What I'm not sure is precisely how we could all agree on some collective goal. The pre-democracy solution was to enforce allegiance to some set of religious beliefs. You accept these goals if you don't want

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 5:56 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > >> > All the AI we have so far gives as a little from a lot. The real goal >> of AI is to get a lot from a little. >> > > A human translator can't get good at translating language X to Y unles

Re: Two apparently different forms of entropy

Turns out that I do not understand it either. The pinhole thought experiment should decrease the coherent photons by a factor of 2 regardless of whether the incoherent photons are in separate branches or not. So the result is the same for MWI and wave collapse. Richard On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:46

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 25 Nov 2014, at 06:56, LizR wrote: On 25 November 2014 at 16:54, meekerdb wrote: On 11/24/2014 5:36 PM, LizR wrote: On 25 November 2014 at 13:41, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 LizR wrote: > I don't think we need to worry about intelligent machines. A smartphone is fairl

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 26 Nov 2014, at 00:56, meekerdb wrote: On 11/25/2014 2:00 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 November 2014 at 04:38, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 meekerdb wrote: > I don't think John's post implied that "conscious" was another word for "intelligence". I think his position is that a be

Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:50:00 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: > > And I said that it seemed to me that if dark matter was being destroyed > galaxies should be expanding, and asked if there was any observational > evidence to support this. > Liz, you said it right at the start...but the point is o

Re: Two apparently different forms of entropy

On 25 Nov 2014, at 17:54, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Nov 2014, at 16:58, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Nov 2014, at 11:35, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2014

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

On 25 Nov 2014, at 16:52, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 wrote: >> I believe that too, but then I think that intelligent behavior is the test for consciousness, it's not a perfect test but it's the only test we have. > Is that more accurate than saying "we do not have a test fo