> > It's like dipping fabric in a dye and bringing it out to
> > fade in the sun. Then you put it back in the dye and bring
> > it out to the sun. Like that, the color becomes fast. What's
> > so surprising about that?
> >
Vaj wrote:
> Long term exposure to many dyes can cause cancer?
>
Oh, so
On Mar 5, 2007, at 10:21 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
sparaig wrote:
So, I'm at my computer about 5PM and I briefly close my eyes
to rest them and my mantra flits through my mind and 20 or 30
minutes later I open my eyes and realize that I have been
meditating, and all this happened because
sparaig wrote:
> So, I'm at my computer about 5PM and I briefly close my eyes
> to rest them and my mantra flits through my mind and 20 or 30
> minutes later I open my eyes and realize that I have been
> meditating, and all this happened because I intended to?
>
It's like dipping fabric in a dye
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Reading t
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" wrote:
> >
> > For a guy who claims to be not "really interested" your
> > aural environmental pollution says quite the opposite.
>
> "Aural?"
>
> Uh, Peter...is yo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> For a guy who claims to be not "really interested" your
> aural environmental pollution says quite the opposite.
"Aural?"
Uh, Peter...is your computer TALKING to you again?
Mine only displays words on a screen for
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Reading t
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Not everyone here has the same definition of
> > > 'meditation' that you do. Yours seems to involve
> > > the *TM* definition, which I think I can sum up
> > > best by quoting one TM supporter here who described
> > Not everyone here has the same definition of
> > 'meditation' that you do. Yours seems to involve
> > the *TM* definition, which I think I can sum up
> > best by quoting one TM supporter here who described
> > it yesterday: "Not maintaining transcendental
> > consciousness is not a 'failur
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> wrote:
>
> > > > Thanks for "
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Readin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"
wrote:
> > >
> > > Reading this post by Michael Dean Goodman:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yaho
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
wrote:
> > > Thanks for "exempting" me, Peter, but I want to
> > > respond to your question anyway. I
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"
wrote:
> > >
> > > Reading this post by Michael Dean Goodman:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" wrote:
> >
> > Reading this post by Michael Dean Goodman:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/131314
> >
> > ... it seems the assumed st
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" wrote:
> >
> > Reading this post by Michael Dean Goodman:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/131314
> >
> > ... it seems the assumed st
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Robert Gimbel wrote:
> > I'm sure in India, when Maharishi was with Guru Dev, there
> > were some powerful ceremonies, and powerful being which
> > would help to dispel any deep rooted lower energies.
> >
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Reading this post by Michael Dean Goodman:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/131314
>
> ... it seems the assumed starting point is always mind's
> "thinking" level.
>
> Given the inward
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 wrote:
> >
> > The whole question is elementary and not really worth
> > arguing about.
>
> I think the whole point is that some TMers have turned
> it *into* an arg
gt; <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > On Behalf Of sparaig
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> > >
> > Reading this post by Michael Dean Goodman:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/131314
> >
> > ... it seems the assumed starting point is always
mind's "thinking"
> > level.
> >
> > Given the inward direction of TM-practice it would seem that
clinging
> > to
Yea, Vaj, and his teaching also advocates stealing
candy from children, so it must be bad!
--- purushaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ---Vaj, you're right! (Hindusism IS different than
> Buddhism) Norbu
> Rinpoche's teachings are ineffective, since they
> operate only in the
> 25% highest level
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
>
> > Likewise, having an intent might be so subtle that it would
> > be hard to identify as "intent." If someone wants to assert
> > that my intent to think th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Likewise, having an intent might be so subtle that it would
> be hard to identify as "intent." If someone wants to assert
> that my intent to think the mantra is too subtle for me to
> notice, how can I argue?
You would
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote:
> > > Gentle means gentle. Just the intention to entertain the
> > > mantra is a gentle effo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't know about the lecture Rick refers to and the "context"
> of the quote, but I have many times seen one of the Humbolt tapes
> where Maharishi was asked about this. I paraphrase, but it's
> pretty close. The que
---Vaj, you're right! (Hindusism IS different than Buddhism) Norbu
Rinpoche's teachings are ineffective, since they operate only in the
25% highest level of the subtle planes. TM operates on all levels,
and the Transcendent.
Your statement that physical purification is unimportant is a
feeb
m: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > On Behalf Of sparaig
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:02 PM
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
> > &g
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't know about the lecture Rick refers to and the "context" of the
> quote, but I have many times seen one of the Humbolt tapes where
> Maharishi was asked about this. I paraphrase, but it's pretty close.
> The ques
araig
> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:02 PM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.c
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
>
> > Gentle means gentle. Just the intention to entertain the mantra is
> > a gentle effort, as compared with just sitting there letting random
> > thoughts run amok
>
>
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote:
> >
[...]
> > Do you have the intent to sit in the chair, or does an
> > unseen hand put you there? Do you have the intent to
> > close your eyes?
>
> Red h
araig
> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:02 PM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.c
0yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > On Behalf Of sparaig
> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com>
>
>
> [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > On Behalf Of sparaig
> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > Subject: [Fair
According to that reasoning there are plenty of celestial beings around who
could enlighten us right now. Why don't they? Maybe we don't deserve it.
Meditation is a starting point - nothing more; but if it keeps our energies up,
it makes alot of sense to "keep it up..., etc."
"Richard
gt; > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Rick Archer"
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> &
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mar 4, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> >
> > > Gentle means gentle. Just the intention to entertain
> > > the mantra is a gentle effort, as com
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
>
> > Gentle means gentle. Just the intention to entertain
> > the mantra is a gentle effort, as compared with just
> > sitting there letting random thoughts run amok
>
> Int
On Mar 4, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
Gentle means gentle. Just the intention to entertain the mantra is
a gentle effort, as compared with just sitting there letting random
thoughts run amok
Intent to sit, intent to close eyes (and remove them from their open
state), intention
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> Judy:
> > > That scripture quote is meaningless without context,
> > > Rick, as I've pointed out before.
> > >
> Rick:
> > > I don't recall that he provid
riend
> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:09 PM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.c
0yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > On Behalf Of sparaig
> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife%
40yahoogroups.com>
>
>
> [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > On Behalf Of sparaig
> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife%
40yahoogroups.com>
>
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 3:30 PM, sparaig wrote:
>
> > It's well known, save to those of us who were content to keep to
> > our original practice,
> > rather than seek something "better."
>
> And then there are those of us wh
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of authfriend
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:09 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldL
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of sparaig
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:02 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldL
Robert Gimbel wrote:
> I'm sure in India, when Maharishi was with Guru Dev, there
> were some powerful ceremonies, and powerful being which
> would help to dispel any deep rooted lower energies.
>
>From what I've read, Robert, being in the same room with Guru Dev was a
meditation in itself, wher
On Mar 4, 2007, at 3:40 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
Maybe so, but both Barry and Vaj seem to be believers in the
enlightenment tradition, except they got a little mixed up when they
adopted Buddhism, not realizing that the practice advocated by Mahesh
IS pure Buddhist Yoga.
Actually that
> > Transcending is an automatic process; it doesn't require
> > any effort or striving because there is no goal, no
> > destination. You are already in the enlightened state;
> > your mind is just covered over with the appearance of
> > the material world - Maya. All you have to do is isolate
On Mar 4, 2007, at 3:30 PM, sparaig wrote:
It's well known, save to those of us who were content to keep to
our original practice,
rather than seek something "better."
And then there are those of us who never abandoned our practice at
all, but integrated it with more advanced or more com
m: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > On Behalf Of sparaig
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist
Sadhana.
> > &
gt; > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > >
> > > This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
> &g
gt; > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > >
> > > This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
> &g
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> sparaig wrote:
> > Does this mean that I'm doing TM wrong?
> >
> Transcending is an automatic process; it doesn't require any effort or
> striving because there is no goal, no destination. You are already in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> sparaig wrote:
> > Does this mean that I'm doing TM wrong?
> >
> Transcending is an automatic process; it doesn't require any effort or
> striving because there is no goal, no destination. You are already in
sparaig wrote:
> I suspect that MMY's point was that "at most" some subtle
> effort MIGHT be involved, especially at the start.
>
At most all it takes is the will to live. The fruits of meditation are
not the result of effort or concentration. According to Bhagavad Gita,
clinging to fruits of one'
On Mar 4, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sparaig
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
--- In FairfieldLife
authfriend wrote:
> That scripture quote is meaningless without context,
> Rick, as I've pointed out before.
>
> And as I recently posted, Charlie Donahue is quoted
> as saying TM doesn't even involve *intent* (which is
> my experience, and obviously Lawson's as well).
>
> There's some kind of su
araig
> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com>
sparaig wrote:
> Does this mean that I'm doing TM wrong?
>
Transcending is an automatic process; it doesn't require any effort or
striving because there is no goal, no destination. You are already in
the enlightened state; your mind is just covered over with the
appearance of the material world - M
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of sparaig
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Fai
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of sparaig
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Fai
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of sparaig
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 7:46 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Effort required in Buddhist Sadhana.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mar 4, 2007, at 10:38 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
> >
> > > Vaj wrote:
> > >> Any meditation using an OBECT will require subtle intent.
> > >>
> > > O
> > "Meditation does not unfold the Self - the Self unfolds Itself,
> > by Itself, to Itself." - MMY 1967, CBG VI, 5, P. 293
> >
sparaig wrote:
> And "or by using any attractive object."
>
Or by the use of mantras in meditation or by the use of simples.
"Psychic and spiritual powers (siddhi) ma
sparaig wrote:
> What, pray tell, is NOT an object?
>
The Absolute, the Transcendent, is not an object of cognition. All
meditation requires is the will to begin. An object, such as a sound
used in sadhana, simply provides the opportunity for the transcending
- the object is not the goal or the rea
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 10:38 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
>
> > Vaj wrote:
> >> Any meditation using an OBECT will require subtle intent.
> >>
> > Oh, so now it's "subtle effort" required in Buddhist sadhana?
> >
> > Accordi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> > > > Intent is subtle effort. Intent is present in TM.
> > > >
> sparaig wrote:
> > Except, one need not have intent to do TM.
> >
> Intent, effort, goal- setting, they're all contrindicated in the
> pract
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
>
> > Vaj wrote:
> >>> Any meditation using an OBECT will require subtle intent.
> >>>
> >>> (Effort in Meditation FAQ #2?)
> >>>
> >>>
> > sparaig wrote:
> >> Heh. Y
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:46 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
>
> > Vaj - Striving and effort presents an obstacle in TM, Tibetan Dzogchen
> > and the practice of Soto Zen. In fact, striving is counterproductive.
> > According to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:02 AM, sparaig wrote:
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mar 4, 2007, at 8:45 AM, sparaig wrote:
> >>
> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >>
nablusos108 wrote:
> Why do you bother Richard?
>
Some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to.
Vaj wrote:
> I made no comments on Dzogchen,
>
So you're saying that Dzogchen isn't Buddhist Sadhana.
> we were discussing Lawson's TM dogmas of effort vs.
> effortlessness. Sogyal Rinpoche does state it nicely.
>
It's not a TM dogma - Suzuki, Sogyal, and Laksmanjoo agree that
striving and effor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You are supposed to read the book BEFORE you make your comments.
> Maharishi Patanjali says: "When thought ceases, the Transcendental
> Absolute stands by itself, refers to Itself, as a witness to the
> worl
> > According to Swami Lakamanjoo, the last living guru of Kashmere
> > Tantra, all you need to do to begin meditiating is feel the body
> > as a whole. It's that simple, Vaj. Just stop your striving!
> >
Vaj wrote:
> Feeling an object of sensation is still meditation on an object.
>
It's a contemp
Some refinements, curious if you agree or not (Peter S.):
On Mar 3, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Peter wrote:
Intent is subtle effort. Intent is present in TM.
There is nothing "wrong" with effort when it is
understood this way. But you don't use the term
"effort" with people first starting TM because for
Vaj wrote:
> Either that or find a Patanjali master who'd be willing
> to explain it to you ! ;-)
>
You are supposed to read the book BEFORE you make your comments.
Maharishi Patanjali says: "When thought ceases, the Transcendental
Absolute stands by itself, refers to Itself, as a witness to the
w
On Mar 4, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
Vaj wrote:
Any meditation using an OBECT will require subtle intent.
(Effort in Meditation FAQ #2?)
sparaig wrote:
Heh. You simply don't get it.
Too much striving!
If I have no object, what exactly is "it" that I'm "striving" fo
Vaj wrote:
> > Any meditation using an OBECT will require subtle intent.
> >
> > (Effort in Meditation FAQ #2?)
> >
> >
sparaig wrote:
> Heh. You simply don't get it.
>
Too much striving!
On Mar 4, 2007, at 10:38 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
Vaj wrote:
Any meditation using an OBECT will require subtle intent.
Oh, so now it's "subtle effort" required in Buddhist sadhana?
According to Swami Lakamanjoo, the last living guru of Kashmere
Tantra, all you need to do to begin medi
Vaj wrote:
> Any meditation using an OBECT will require subtle intent.
>
Oh, so now it's "subtle effort" required in Buddhist sadhana?
According to Swami Lakamanjoo, the last living guru of Kashmere
Tantra, all you need to do to begin meditiating is feel the body as a
whole. It's that simple, Va
On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:46 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
Vaj - Striving and effort presents an obstacle in TM, Tibetan Dzogchen
and the practice of Soto Zen. In fact, striving is counterproductive.
According to the Buddha himself, enlightenment cannot be achieved by
striving. Here's a quote from
>
> In other words, if Vaj is here agreeing with Peter
> that it's just a matter of not using a term that would
> confuse neophyte TMers, why did Vaj call it a
> "falsehood" and a "false belief" that TMers "try to
> push" as if it were some kind of deliberate deception?
>
Why ? Because either Va
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:02 AM, sparaig wrote:
> >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mar 4, 2007, at 8:45 AM,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:02 AM, sparaig wrote:
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mar 4, 2007, at 8:45 AM, sparaig wrote:
> >>
> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >>
> > > Intent is subtle effort. Intent is present in TM.
> > >
sparaig wrote:
> Except, one need not have intent to do TM.
>
Intent, effort, goal- setting, they're all contrindicated in the
practice of dhyana. You are going to get only as much enlightenment as
you are going to get. All you have to
Vaj wrote:
> This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
>
Vaj - Striving and effort presents an obstacle in TM, Tibetan Dzogchen
and the practice of Soto Zen. In fact, striving is counterproductive.
According to the Buddha himself, enlightenment cannot be achieved by
striving. Here's a quote
On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:02 AM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Mar 4, 2007, at 8:45 AM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
On Mar 3, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Pete
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 8:45 AM, sparaig wrote:
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >>
> >> This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
> >>
> >> On Mar 3, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Peter wrote:
> >>
> >>> I
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
Except that it isn't at all clear that TM even
involves *intent*. Charlie Donahue, for one (per my
quote in a recent post in response to Peter, which
of course Peter will not
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 8:45 AM, sparaig wrote:
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> >>
> >> This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
> >>
> >> On Mar 3, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Peter wrote:
> >>
> >>> I
On Mar 4, 2007, at 8:45 AM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
On Mar 3, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Peter wrote:
Intent is subtle effort. Intent is present in TM.
Except, one need not have intent to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
>
> On Mar 3, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Peter wrote:
>
> > Intent is subtle effort. Intent is present in TM.
Except, one need not have intent to do TM.
This could be #1 in a "Effort in Meditation FAQ".
On Mar 3, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Peter wrote:
Intent is subtle effort. Intent is present in TM.
There is nothing "wrong" with effort when it is
understood this way. But you don't use the term
"effort" with people first starting TM because for
them th
A quote from Jean Klein from his book I AM page 85.
"In an experience there is still an experiencer who is stuck in the
pattern of going in and out of states. Global understanding is the
sudden awareness that the perceiver of these states is unaffected by
them, that they appear in the perceiver. T
Peter writes:
Intent is subtle effort. Intent is present in TM.
There is nothing "wrong" with effort when it is
understood this way. But you don't use the term
"effort" with people first starting TM because for
them the term "effort" means something completely
different. The intellect discriminates
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> sparaig wrote:
> > ...where is it documented that his name is Varma?
> >
> This was established on Usenet by Tom Anderson (Sudarsha) who made the
> claim of having seem Mahesh's passport.
>
Ah, OK. That go
On Mar 3, 2007, at 10:51 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
Vaj wrote:
The "effort" myth is probably one of the greatest
falsehoods perpetuated by TM adherents and marketeers.
Apparently you're not very familiar with Soto Zen.
Actually, even though I have a number of close friends who are Zen
Peter wrote:
> "...silently witnessing the Self." If you write such a
> statement it implies much!
>
It's a saying from the Vedic Literature, Peter.
"The Vedas are concerned with the three universal qualities or gunas.
O Arjuna, free thyself from the triple qualities and from the pairs of
opposit
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