--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/38mf3l
>
++ It is not logical to say something is not so just because you have
not expierienced it. N.
I don't think this is what Sam is challenging. He is one of the few
skeptics who validates transcendent experiences. The experience is
real, and he has had them too. What he is challenging is what people
conclude after the experience involving what the experience "means".
Experiencing the feeli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't think this is what Sam is challenging. He is one of the
few
> skeptics who validates transcendent experiences. The experience is
> real, and he has had them too. What he is challenging is what
peop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think this is what Sam is challenging. He is one of the
> few
> > skeptics who validates transcendent experiences. The experienc
I think it would be hard for anyone to know what Sam has experienced
through his meditation practice. It might be more than a sense of
silence or a moment of peace. Perhaps, like me, he has had
experiences like the kind of detail you are describing and decided not
to attach the same meaning to it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't think this is what Sam is challenging. He is one of the few
> skeptics who validates transcendent experiences. The experience is
> real, and he has had them too. What he is challenging is what
peopl
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think it would be hard for anyone to know what Sam has experienced
> through his meditation practice. It might be more than a sense of
> silence or a moment of peace. Perhaps, like me, he has had
> experien
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" wrote:
> >
> > http://www.tinyurl.com/38mf3l
>
> ++ It is not logical to say something is not so just because
> you have not expierienced it. N.
If you were a TM teach
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson"
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.tinyurl.com/38mf3l
> >
> > ++ It is not logical to say something is not s
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't think this is what Sam is challenging. He is one
> of the few skeptics who validates transcendent experiences.
> The experience is real, and he has had them too. What he
> is challenging is what pe
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Direct perception and innocence are the keys here. Not
> intepretation or conclusion or imposition. Just as
> images of the universe from the Hubble space telescope
> are the result of innocence and direct percep
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" wrote:
> >
> > Direct perception and innocence are the keys here. Not
> > intepretation or conclusion or imposition. Just as
> > images of the universe from the Hu
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Your choice of metaphor is interesting, Jim.
> Do you remember the *history* of the Hubble
> telescope. It was delivered into orbit with
> astigmatism, its main mirror suffering from
> spherical aberration such that it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> However, I do not for a moment call my beliefs "truth."
> I don't even know if they're true. And I probably never
> will. They are just what this particular self chooses
> to believe at a particular moment in time. They
Sam Harris is such a great conversation starter!
I think my statement was an epistemological assessment of the claim
that one can have a subjective experience that can then make you
confident that you "know" that Jesus is Lord". Of course people do it
all the time. But in the systems of modern
I'm glad you responded too Turq. There is so much in this material.
I will have to think about the line between how we use tools for being
confident in our knowledge in philosophy and how we use them in our
personal belief systems. At first I thought I just disagreed with you
about what we can b
curtis writes snipped:
At first I thought I just disagreed with you
about what we can be confident about in our knowledge from subjective
experience, but then I felt like you were making a different
distinction concerning how we form our own beliefs. It is quite a
vigerous dance with a lots of sto
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"
wrote:
> >
> > Direct perception and innocence are the keys here. Not
> > intepretation or conclusion or imposition. Just as
> > images of the universe from the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think it would be hard for anyone to know what Sam has
experienced
> through his meditation practice. It might be more than a sense of
> silence or a moment of peace. Perhaps, like me, he has had
> experie
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't think this is what Sam is challenging. He is one of
the
>
Nice quote, I think that Sam's point is that the line has been crossed
in society from "mind your own business about my personal beliefs" to
a need to challenge the type of beliefs that is supporting some pretty
hideous actions. There are too many tribes of monkeys for this to
work but it makes me
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think it would be hard for anyone to know what Sam has experienced
> through his meditation practice. It might be more than a sense of
> silence or a moment of peace. Perhaps, like me, he has had
> experienc
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson"
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.tinyurl.com/38mf3l
> >
> > ++ It is not logical to say something is not s
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> wrote:
> >
> > I think it would be hard for anyone to know what Sam has experienced
> > through his meditation practice. It might be more than a sense of
> > si
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.t
> snip
> ++ If you drive off the road and hit a tree, you would have a strong
> expierience- would you not be qualified to have an accurate comment on
> it? N.
The guy watching you hit the tree who didn't get his bell rung might
be a better source of information about what happened that caused t
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > snip
> > ++ If you drive off the road and hit a tree, you would have a
> > strong expierience- would you not be qualified to have an
> > accurate comment on it? N.
>
> The guy watching you hit the tree wh
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> wrote:
> >
> > > snip
> > > ++ If you drive off the road and hit a tree, you would have a
> > > strong expierience- would you not be qualified to have an
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > snip
> > > > ++ If you drive off the road and hit a tree, you would h
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
>
I agree with your point. I think the same principles apply. It was
probably a bad example of an intense experience to use. Someone
having a non traumatic intense experience might be a better witness,
but still all the other stuff pertains. Having an intense experience
doesn't even make you an ex
"I've been in 5 near-fatal (would have been fatal without seat-belts) car
crashes. There's no
underlying similarities save confusion and perhaps, panic."
Spraig, I don't care if you haven't been drinking, you are not my
designated driver! That sounds so intense, I have never been in an
accident.
" But not about what it's like to be in a car crash."
I am not denying the value of subjective experiences in the context of
trying to figure out life. For some things it is the only value. But
once you have one you can't tell me that now you "know" that all the
women under your control must sub
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> "I've been in 5 near-fatal (would have been fatal without seat-belts) car
> crashes. There's no
> underlying similarities save confusion and perhaps, panic."
>
> Spraig, I don't care if you haven't been drinki
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sam Harris is such a great conversation starter!
>
> I think my statement was an epistemological assessment of the
> claim that one can have a subjective experience that can then
> make you confident that you
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of TurquoiseB
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:09 AM
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [
t; Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:09 AM
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Latest from Sam Harris, 2-8-07
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm suggesting that your mirror is as abnormal as
> > > any other, and that its reflectio
rfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > On Behalf Of TurquoiseB
> > > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:09 AM
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Latest from Sam Harris, 2-8-07
> > > &g
Thanks for going into so much depth Judy. I wrote out a response from
my point of view, but I want to take another look at Sam's discussion
from your point of view if I can get there through my own biases of
thinking. Good exercise and not too easy! This is is a great
discussion.
--- In Fairfi
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > On Behalf Of TurquoiseB
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:09 AM
> > > >
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > snip
> > ++ If you drive off the road and hit a tree, you would have a strong
> > expierience- would you not be qualified to have an accurate comment on
> > it? N.
>
>
> The guy watching you hit the tree wh
Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you were a TM teacher, did you ever say in
> lectures, as you were taught to do, that it
> is impossible to transcend via concentration?
> Or that TM was the best, most effective method
> of meditation in the world, without having ever
> tried any ot
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of TurquoiseB
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:09 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Latest from Sam Harris, 2-8-07
I'm suggesting that your mirror is as abnormal as
any other, and tha
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