Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-17 Thread Share Long
Richard, maybe the eye can't see itself but only consciousness can know consciousness (-: On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 10:06 AM, "pundits...@gmail.com" wrote:   In "Eye to Eye," Ken Wilber applies his spectrum of consciousness model to epistemology. Epistemology is the science of what ca

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-17 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/16/2014 9:56 AM, Share Long wrote: > Richard, Wilbur's book was published 21 years ago. I think > neuroscience has added greatly to our understanding of consciousness > since then. > Maybe so, Share I mentioned Wilber because in his books there is an affinity with the POV of some TMers, w

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-17 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/17/2014 9:49 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: *Perhaps Xeno doesn't recall, but "real" was Salyavin's term, not mine, so obviously he has to go first. But of course his definition will just be a restatement of his metaphysical assertion that only what's measurable is "real" (the fundamental

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-17 Thread authfriend
Perhaps Xeno doesn't recall, but "real" was Salyavin's term, not mine, so obviously he has to go first. But of course his definition will just be a restatement of his metaphysical assertion that only what's measurable is "real" (the fundamental premise of scientism). IOW, he can't object if my d

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-17 Thread anartaxius
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote (to salyavin808): 1. Remember Gould's phrase, "nonoverlapping magisteria"? 2. What do you mean by "real"? Define it, please. Perhaps you should also define 'real' and see if the definitions match up first. In science, real is defined primarily

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread steve.sundur
Nice post, tax ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This reply is specifically for Judy, not Turq or Salyavin. Alas she cannot honestly reply, as it would break her word. That is not saying she is dishonest, please note. We all have honesty glitches, part of the human condition.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/16/2014 11:05 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: > Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful! > Thank you. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread authfriend
Which question? You asked a bunch of them. All of them were irrelevant, though. You seem to believe that classical theism and science are in competition--but they aren't, couldn't be. Classical theism doesn't pretend to "improve on science." That would be silly. Remember Gould's phrase, "nonover

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/16/2014 1:24 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, finding out that you've been espousing a metaphysical theory has really discombobulated you, has it not? > It won't be the first time somebody on this list used metaphysics when they were trying to talk about science. Barry writes science a

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/16/2014 1:37 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: But boy, you freak out when you're challenged. > He was speechless when I reminded him that TM was based on thinking, and he couldn't provide an example of a thought causing a physical change. Maybe he believes Barry saw Rama levitate hundreds

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : You mean, the post where I pointed out to Salyavin that he was hanging his hat on metaphysics rather than science? I was impressed, it was a damn good way of getting out of answering the question. Again. And laden with your usual insults to

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread authfriend
You mean, the post where I pointed out to Salyavin that he was hanging his hat on metaphysics rather than science? BTW, I haven't noticed that Salyavin has any hesitation about paying attention to me. He did start this discussion, after all, and he sure doesn't seem as though he's ready to qu

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread authfriend
Oh, stop saying that. Of course I have an argument, and you know it. You just don't want to even try to take it in. Heaven forfend you allow yourself to be challenged. Scary! Maybe "one god less" isn't quite the knockdown blow that you imagined it was. You know, you're such a smart guy; you k

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread authfriend
Wow, finding out that you've been espousing a metaphysical theory has really discombobulated you, has it not? You haven't the foggiest idea how to wiggle out of that one, have you? I see now that you've been deliberately misspelling "Feser" all along. Don't you think that's a little immature?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/16/2014 12:37 PM, salyavin808 wrote: But I'd leave the junkyard dog act here, they seem like a civilised bunch and I didn't notice any sneering, badmouthing or withering insults. > It looks like this is about the time for this thread to turn to crap. It looks like somebody is having troub

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Share Long
salyavin, you read my mind! That's exactly what I was thinking of! Go figure (-: On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:26 PM, salyavin808 wrote:   ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : So salyavin, thinking of the atom which has always been real and measurable except that we didn't

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread salyavin808
Hey Judy, I've been getting kinda worried that your mighty brain isn't get used enough amongst us incurious dullards. So I found a new place for you to hang out and discuss theoretic improbabilities: http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/44061/29917623/Theistic_Personalism__Classic

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : So salyavin, thinking of the atom which has always been real and measurable except that we didn't have the instruments to do so, is it possible that there exists right now, something else which is real and measurable but for which we don't yet

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Share Long
irfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous   I was with some children last night. I have no children myself, so it was rather intriguing watching what interests them. One was about one year old, and the other about three. The one year old seemed totally fascinated with an empty aseptic packag

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Michael Jackson
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful! On Wed, 4/16/14, TurquoiseBee wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Date: Wednesday, April 16, 201

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread punditster
But, can she levitate like Rama? I won't comment on the deeper aspects of your post, just pass along a wonderful moment having to do with children.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread TurquoiseBee
From: "anartax...@yahoo.com" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous   I was with some children last night. I have no children myself, so it was rather intriguing watching what interests the

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread punditster
In "Eye to Eye," Ken Wilber applies his spectrum of consciousness model to epistemology. Epistemology is the science of what can be known - knowledge, and how we get it. Attempting to investigate the realm of spirit, for example, with the "eye of flesh," that is, the eye that perceives only se

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread punditster
Knowledge is power, Share. It's like the analogy of the snake in the garden. At night we see what appears to be a snake in the garden; in the daylight we see that it was only a coiled up rope. The "snake" was real because it was presented to our consciousness, but in reality it wasn't a real sna

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Share Long
Richard, Wilbur's book was published 21 years ago. I think neuroscience has added greatly to our understanding of consciousness since then. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 9:50 AM, "pundits...@gmail.com" wrote:   Ajax: > To find out if this is real or not, there is no evidence except the > ex

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread authfriend
I was just about positive you wouldn't admit your assertion was metaphysical, because if it is, according to the statement itself, it's "not real." You can't measure it, you can't use it to make predictions, you can't prove it, and there's no evidence for it. It's fine to believe it if it please

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread anartaxius
I was with some children last night. I have no children myself, so it was rather intriguing watching what interests them. One was about one year old, and the other about three. The one year old seemed totally fascinated with an empty aseptic package (Rice milk or something like that). Its whole

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread punditster
Ajax: > To find out if this is real or not, there is no evidence except the > experience. > One of the most thorough account of the spiritual approach may be Ken Wilber's book The Spectrum of Consciousness, a comparison of western and eastern ways of thinking about the mind, Ken Wilber describe

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Share Long
So salyavin, thinking of the atom which has always been real and measurable except that we didn't have the instruments to do so, is it possible that there exists right now, something else which is real and measurable but for which we don't yet have the instruments for measuring? On Wednesday,

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Share Long
Actually Richard, I think you are speaking about 2 kinds of mistakes. The phrase "son of a barren woman" represents a logical impossibility, a self contradiction. But mistaking the fence post for a thief is a mistake of perception. About this you are correct in that the person truly perceived

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread punditster
Try to imagine someone so desperate for attention that they settle for made-up claims about witnessing their guru levitate hundreds of times. And, instead of conversation, making even bolder claims about their guru being able to generate "golden light" to fill a lecture hall filled with thousand

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread punditster
> "...if it isn't measurable it isn't real." How about atoms? > There are to my knowledge no scientists on this discussion group, so what you are reading Share is about metaphysics, not about science. In Indian metaphysics, if some proposition or statement is found to be self-contradictory, it

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread awoelflebater
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Flattery will get you everywhere. Tea and cakes on me! It's a deal.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, it stopped me in my tracks here at the end when you say "...if it isn't measurable it isn't real." How about atoms? Were they unreal when they weren't measurable? No, they were always measurable, we just didn't have the technology

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread Share Long
salyavin, it stopped me in my tracks here at the end when you say "...if it isn't measurable it isn't real." How about atoms? Were they unreal when they weren't measurable? Did they only become real when we became able to measure them? Of course these are rhetorical questions meant to make the p

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread TurquoiseBee
en ARGUE worth a damn any more.  :-) From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous   I see you are reduced to your usual nitpicking in order to mask the fact  you have no ar

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-16 Thread salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Who is this Bawwy? Good question. I can't figure it out, can you? Yeah, straight away actually. And why would you care? On some level I don't and on another level I "care" in the same way I care that some idiot is intent on w

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread salyavin808
I see you are reduced to your usual nitpicking in order to mask the fact you have no argument. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : BTW, it's Feser, not Fess. I corrected you once on this already. It's not really such a difficult name to spell. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread salyavin808
Is that it? No argument whatsoever? But then you didn't have one going in to the discussion so why would you have one at the end. Business as usual. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : (snip all kinds of nonsense) You do realize this is a metaphysical, not a scientific, statemen

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread awoelflebater
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Are you drunk?? What the fuck makes you imagine I think the laws of physics are inadequa

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite." ~ Bertrand Russell I do believe you've quoted this from the FFL home page approvingly a number of times here. Doesn't really seem to describe your attitude toward theism, I'm afraid. I w

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
BTW, it's Feser, not Fess. I corrected you once on this already. It's not really such a difficult name to spell. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
(snip all kinds of nonsense) You do realize this is a metaphysical, not a scientific, statement, do you not? So the only way it isn't in conflict with science is because it isn't measurable. And if it isn't measurable it isn't real.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : P.S.: Either you just made up what you attributed to me in a malicious attempt to make me look stupid, Yup, malicious that's me. You made yourself look stupid - not to mention exceptionally irritating - with your refusal to explain what you

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
Xeno's fine in this post. I'll just respond to Barry, because what he says requires correction. (What else is new?) This reply is also specifically for Anartaxius, and is *not* to be used as a springboard for Judy Stein to use it as an opportunity to reply to him while still pretending to ke

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread TurquoiseBee
From: "anartax...@yahoo.com" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:32 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous   This reply is specifically for Judy, not Turq or Salyavin. Alas she cannot honestly reply, as it would break her word. T

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
P.S.: Either you just made up what you attributed to me in a malicious attempt to make me look stupid, or your thinking has been going off in the wrong direction, at least where classical theism is concerned. There is no conflict whatsoever between classical theism and science, including the law

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread salyavin808
Just keep it up, whatever you say is true. The world waits with baited breath. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Just a reminder; here's what he said: "Either tell us where the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism or shut the fuck up." Jeez, talk about a point

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread Share Long
beautiful, deep clarity, thank you, Xeno On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 2:33 PM, "anartax...@yahoo.com" wrote:   This reply is specifically for Judy, not Turq or Salyavin. Alas she cannot honestly reply, as it would break her word. That is not saying she is dishonest, please note. We all have

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread anartaxius
This reply is specifically for Judy, not Turq or Salyavin. Alas she cannot honestly reply, as it would break her word. That is not saying she is dishonest, please note. We all have honesty glitches, part of the human condition. Generally I am not interested in Theism. I'm a post-Theist, the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
Just a reminder; here's what he said: "Either tell us where the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism or shut the fuck up." Jeez, talk about a pointless exercise! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What "tricks"?? That was your trick, buster, not mine. Came stra

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
What "tricks"?? That was your trick, buster, not mine. Came straight out of left field. You have a deeply dishonest habit of putting words in my mouth and then berating me for things I never said. What you attributed to me makes no sense. It would be like saying meteorology is inadequate com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Are you drunk?? What the fuck makes you imagine I think the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism? I don't know what that could

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/15/2014 7:31 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: But thanks for admitting that you can't even make an argument for "Being Itself," much less any other form of the dumbfuck God idea. :-) > Just speaking for myself, I'd be more inclined to believe a dumbfuck God idea than to believe Fredy Lenz could

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/15/2014 10:38 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: And Ann can't tell the difference between a post in which Judy is replying to Salyavin and Anartaxius and one in which she's addressing me. It seems that *someone* in this scenario might be drunk after all. :-) > Drunk, or just nerdy, to try

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread awoelflebater
t;awoelflebater@..." To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:40 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Are you drunk?? What the fuck makes you imagine I think the laws of physics are inadequate c

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread awoelflebater
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : And Ann can't tell the difference between a post in which Judy is replying to Salyavin and Anartaxius and one in which she's addressing me. It seems that *someone* in this scenario might be drunk after all. :-) It all changes nothing, you're

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread dhamiltony2k5
Yup and pitiable they don't have the experiential reference neither that they have to ask for some mental argument that 'absolutely shows' the divinity. With no spiritual chops in this mentation round and round of these guys is like they can't see the forest for the trees or the forest for the t

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/15/2014 8:42 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: What is happening? Is Bawwy catching? Sal, you need to take your temperature and get into bed. I think you've caught something vicious - you sound just like Bawwy. > You are not the first person on this discussion group to point out that mos

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread TurquoiseBee
@yahoo.com" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:40 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous   ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Are you drunk?? What the fuck makes you imagine I think the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism? I

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread awoelflebater
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Are you drunk?? What the fuck makes you imagine I think the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism? I don't know what that could even mean. Sober up and stop talking gibberish.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread awoelflebater
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Are you drunk?? What the fuck makes you imagine I think the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism? I don't know what that could even mean. Sober up and stop talking gibberish. Bawwy brings out the big and devastating club w

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread TurquoiseBee
___ From: "authfri...@yahoo.com" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous   Yo, Oopsie Boy, starting out on the blooper trail pretty early this morning, ai

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
Tell you what, I'll take a stab at it after you've made a post here giving a complete explanation of quantum mechanics. As I pointed out to Barry just now, I've already given you the core principle of the argument--many times, in fact: Classical theists hold that what they call God is not a b

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
that she actually *believes* in the dumbfuck idea, and thus she'd lose her "Get Out Of Jail Free" card, the one that allows her to pretend she's only arguing on principle, not because she's a fanatical believer in the dumbfuck idea. :-) From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:45 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous Either tell us where the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism or shut the fuck up. We're waiting.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-15 Thread authfriend
Are you drunk?? What the fuck makes you imagine I think the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism? I don't know what that could even mean. Sober up and stop talking gibberish. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Either tell us where the laws of physics ar

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
'd have to reveal that she actually *believes* in the dumbfuck idea, and thus she'd lose her "Get Out Of Jail Free" card, the one that allows her to pretend she's only arguing on principle, not because she's a fanatical believer in the dumbfuck idea. :-) From: saly

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread TurquoiseBee
k idea, and thus she'd lose her "Get Out Of Jail Free" card, the one that allows her to pretend she's only arguing on principle, not because she's a fanatical believer in the dumbfuck idea.  :-) ____ From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoo

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
Either tell us where the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism or shut the fuck up. We're waiting. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yet another atheist wannabe who simply cannot lower himself to reading enough philosophy to realize the incoherence of one of h

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
Yet another atheist wannabe who simply cannot lower himself to reading enough philosophy to realize the incoherence of one of his fundamental premises, or that the purported evidentiary problems of theism as confronted by science that he blabs on about so pompously are in fact nonexistent. ---

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread anartaxius
Hell if I know what a divinity is. I just copied the definition of 'numinous' from the Google search results for 'define:numinous'. I was discussing the nature of informed belief, that is belief based on evidence rather than simply an idea one has in the mind. I was not discussing anything about

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread anartaxius
Hell if I know what a divinity is. I just copied the definition of 'numinous' from the Google search results for 'define:numinous'. I was discussing the nature of informed belief, that is belief based on evidence rather than simply an idea one has in the mind. I was not discussing anything about

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
Exactly what is "a divinity"? This is where atheists, especially those with pretensions to scientific understanding but who are deficient in philosophy, tend to get all tangled up and become incoherent, saying things like "I just believe in one less divinity than you do." ---In FairfieldLi

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread anartaxius
nu·mi·nous = having a strong religious or spiritual quality; indicating or suggesting the presence of a divinity. Exactly what is a strong religious quality? Exactly what is a spiritual quality? How do these two qualities indicate or suggest the presence of a divinity? If something is indic

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/14/2014 1:46 PM, TurquoiseBee wrote: You don't get it, Salyavin. The whole POINT is that people like Fess and Judy can complain that other people don't know as much about _LEVITATION_ as they do. :-) > "god gave this job to the birds, let them fly around while you use your legs! work on

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
BTW, I didn't start this discussion with Salyavin; he did. (There you go, Barry, I just saved you an Oopsie.) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Like Curtis, Salyavin tends to become intellectually dishonest when he encounters any kind of conflict. If anyone wants to see why

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
Like Curtis, Salyavin tends to become intellectually dishonest when he encounters any kind of conflict. If anyone wants to see why this post of Salyavin's is intellectually dishonest, here's the post of mine he was responding to: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversat

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
Uh, what?? You're waiting on a treatise from me on why scientific methods are inadequate compared to classical theism? That's sort of like waiting for a treatise on why a pregnancy test is inadequate compared to the Pythagorean Theorem. I'm going to stay optimistic and wait for a trea

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread Share Long
salyavin, ok, here's a comment and question for you: you mention that there's all these addictive chemicals in our brain. Fascinating! Do they have survival value?  And if they increase with certain experiences, why? More survival value? Previously you mentioned something about several brain a

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous LOL. So lets get this straight, I've got to have an argument against every ancient Gre

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
I can't be bothered to get dragged into another yet another tedious groundhog day with you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Er, no. Look, I know it's difficult for you to have your ignorance exposed like this Yawn.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
Third Opsie! for Barry today. He seems to have missed the fact that I've referred Salyavin to sources that do explain what I mean, but that Salyavin has refused to read. Which one of us is feeble-minded, again? Pretty funny charge coming from a person who lacks the intellect to understand

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
(Feser, not Fess.) Yes, if you want a really comprehensive understanding of classical theism, you have to do a whole lot of reading (and pondering). But you could have gotten a general idea of why the "one god less" gambit is incoherent with regard to the God of classical theism by reading the f

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
Er, no. Look, I know it's difficult for you to have your ignorance exposed like this (and obviously even more difficult for Barry to watch), but lame smart cracks really don't help you out, they just make you look more desperate. (Is Susan Blackmore an ancient Greek philosopher?) Clearly I ca

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/14/2014 12:47 PM, salyavin808 wrote: Wouldn't it be funny if TM researchers undermined the whole philosophical fabric of their own beliefs. That's be true science! > That's sort of what has become of the internet. The goal was to have everything connected, networked, so we could all shar

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread TurquoiseBee
From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous   LOL. So lets get this straight, I've got to have an argument against every ancient Greek or philosopher you can think of or you'll

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread TurquoiseBee
From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:06 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous   Oh god, not Ed Fess again. No, that isn't a good place to start. I read his blog once and had a laugh at a few errors about physics and S

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
LOL. So lets get this straight, I've got to have an argument against every ancient Greek or philosopher you can think of or you'll claim I've "wimped out". But you aren't ever going to explain what you mean! That's funny! Sounds like you've got a perfect "I win every argument" clause,

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
I explained that as well. Pay attention at the back! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : You're explaining why there can't be two worlds when what I suggested is that there is only one world, but we see only part of it. ??? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
Oh god, not Ed Fess again. No, that isn't a good place to start. I read his blog once and had a laugh at a few errors about physics and Steven Hawking but most of it seems based on other things you have to read, like there's some vast esoteric store of knowledge that you have to adopt. Why bothe

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/14/2014 12:47 PM, salyavin808 wrote: In a way that's what everyone does, the world we see is in our heads but our senses are only capable of revealing a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum and our ears only a small part of the auditory. > Translation: Everyone thinks, therefore sinc

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
You're explaining why there can't be two worlds when what I suggested is that there is only one world, but we see only part of it. ??? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : In a way that's what everyone does, the world we see is in our heads but our senses are only capable of revea

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 4/14/2014 10:58 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: How can one "inform oneself" about that which does not exist? :-) > There are several ways a person can "inform oneself" about that which does not exist. First, you need to understand the basic laws of gravity. Then, you need to understand the effect

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
In a way that's what everyone does, the world we see is in our heads but our senses are only capable of revealing a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum and our ears only a small part of the auditory. In order to perform the clever trick of us thinking there is a theatre in our he

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
P.S.: Here's a good place to start: http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=%22one+god+less%22 http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=%22one+god+less%22 Note: Feser does not use the male pronoun to refer to God because he believes God has a gender; he does not. IMHO, his arguments would

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
I believe I've already explained why "one god less" is incoherent, in the process exposing all kinds of ideas you had about what God is said to be that are refuted by classical theism (the strongest argument for theism). As I recall, you wimped out of that discussion when it got tough, as you of

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread authfriend
Maybe there's only one world and you usually see only part of it? Ah, I still get that stunned feeling that hits you in your gut and that sense of wonder about just...how? How there can be two worlds when I only usually see one...?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to flaunt your ignorance. See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument again

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

2014-04-14 Thread salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : salyavin, yes, I like your last paragraph about depth recognition getting crossed with reward center for pleasure. Now here's the next important step I think: does that have lasting value for life? Because if it does, then for me it doesn't mat

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