--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> I could not help but notice that none of the compulsive TM
> defenders said anything about my reposting of the puja video
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/215663).
> No one seemed to want to portray it as non-relig
sounds like you had your buttons pushed 30 years ago, and the buttons stuck in
the pushed position. give it a rest.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> I could not help but notice that none of the compulsive TM
> defenders said anything about my reposting of the puja vid
> > That's our Judy. Not just an attention
> > vampire, but a stupid attention vampire.
> >
satvadude wrote:
> Do you ever tire of being stalked by her?
>
You sound really scared of Judy. I wonder why?
You could always stop trolling here and move
on - go back to where you came from, to be
with
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > This page contains an embedded video of Maharishi
> > leading a group performance of the TM puja, sur-
> > rounded by the Rajas in full costume.
>
> > Whatever your stance
Richard, the phrase "in need of a kneel" got me laughing so hard -- thanks for
that.
Kneeling is such an intentional posture; and the idea that it's just a posture,
merely equivalent with any other, and that a person would assume that pose
immediately following a religious(-type) ceremony (and
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" wrote:
> I'd say we do a poll of how many would've learnt TM
> if they knew it was going to be like this but I think
> some of us might have lost thier objectivity.
>
I was only 16 whe I went to my intro, and at the time very religiously
motivated.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Richard, the phrase "in need of a kneel" got me laughing so hard -- thanks
> for that.
>
> Kneeling is such an intentional posture; and the idea that it's just a
> posture, merely equivalent with any other, and that a person would
This might be the best summary rap about the movement. And you accurately
described the arc of my own start in the TMO, too, uncanny. That's almost
exactly the way I came into, and felt about, the movement.
That is, of course, the one big reason why FFL is valuable -- not a lot of folk
have t
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Richard, the phrase "in need of a kneel" got me laughing
> so hard -- thanks for that.
>
> Kneeling is such an intentional posture; and the idea
> that it's just a posture, merely equivalent with any other,
> and that a person would
GrateSwan, I think you're slicing the baloney too thin, though I appreciate the
intent to be rigorously objective. But it's not a Zeno's paradox thing; it's
so clearly religious and in every aspect, *except* for the TMOs labored
explanation/interpretation that has to be immediately inserted, wh
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
> If the saying of the Catholic rosary had provable,
> scientifically veriafiable effects on student's
> attitudes and grades, would that justify teaching
> it or having the students practice it at school?
With the rosary, would you b
Judy, you accurately describe the attitude that I, as an intiator, tried to
project to initiates who did not kneel when cued to do so. You also accurately
characterize your initiation setting as being religious (or religiously
ambiguous), "If the teacher was religious, that was OK with me, but
IMO, I would expect that someone saying the rosary (essentially a collection of
"hail marys" and "our fathers") would be getting many of the same (if not all)
of the salutory effects of TM. I'm not debating the merits of the respective
practices, but the analysis under the federal Constitution,
[Correction: sentence should read: "TM is religion based, *not* just religion
derived."]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Judy, you accurately describe the attitude that I, as an intiator, tried to
> project to initiates who did not kneel when cued to do so. You
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> GrateSwan, I think you're slicing the baloney too thin,
There are interesting if not important distinctions to be explored and
understood, IMO.
Let me try to recast them, the distinction between:
1) learning and practicing.
2)
The picture of Guru Dev has a halo, too, sitting on a throne decorated with
specific religious symbols.
One of the great pleasures of teaching TM, for me personally, was gently
guiding an initiate from a purely material, scientific POV of the world, into
the wonderfully rich metaphysical struct
Universities have all sorts of openly religious groups from all sorts of
religions using university facilities to openly and notoriously practice their
religions and espouse their beliefs. Using federal money to do so (other than
facility use alone) is not allowed. Teaching the tenets of any r
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> IMO, I would expect that someone saying the rosary
> (essentially a collection of "hail marys" and "our
> fathers") would be getting many of the same (if not
> all) of the salutory effects of TM.
Could be, but that's irrelevant to m
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> People seem to forget to mention that they're not just
> kneeling, they're kneeling in front of someone,
When I was initiated, the place I was invited to
kneel was off to the side, not in front of the table.
who in English translation is
> "
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
> TM is religion based, [not] just religion derived. You
> can practice the meditation without the religion, but
> under the federal Constitution, the meditation
> instruction is unquestionably a religious ceremony. I
> cannot imagine t
You miss my point: the practice can't be done on or off campus until the
student is initiated into the practice. The initiation ceremony is
unquestionably religious in nature and the fact that it can't be severed from
the practice (whether or not the student ever sees another puja in his or her
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> The picture of Guru Dev has a halo, too, sitting on a
> throne decorated with specific religious symbols.
>
> One of the great pleasures of teaching TM, for me
> personally, was gently guiding an initiate from a
> purely material, sc
But you miss my point, which is that you *can* say with the Catholic rosary,
that "we're giving you all the salutary effects but none of the religious
stuff." I don't have to believe in Jesus and Mary and a Heavenly Father to say
those prayers. They're just words. They're essentially just sou
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> You miss my point: the practice can't be done on or
> off campus until the student is initiated into the
> practice. The initiation ceremony is unquestionably
> religious in nature and the fact that it can't be
> severed from the pra
Deceptive in the sense that there was a hidden agenda.
Maharishi's original and lasting intention was to spiritually regenerate the
world. TM was the original and fundamental vehicle to accomplish that
intention. With more exposure to the greater world outside India, and with the
fortuitous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> But you miss my point, which is that you *can* say
> with the Catholic rosary, that "we're giving you all
> the salutary effects but none of the religious stuff."
> I don't have to believe in Jesus and Mary and a
> Heavenly Father to
Yes, I'm not informed of the the DLF program particulars, so perhaps much of my
argument is moot, and I apologize for speaking without knowing the particulars.
But, for clarity: regarding the mandated "quiet time" -- is that something
that's already designated in schools? Or is it only in th
But Marek, the agenda *wasn't* hidden. In my intro lecture,
the teacher was explicit that TM was a spiritual practice.
I can't remember for sure exactly when I first heard the
phrase "spiritually regenerate the world," but I'm pretty
sure it was during the three days of checking, most likely
the th
Correct, mantras are not prayers; that was not my point. And although they are
semantically meaningless sounds, they have a rich history of very specific
religious and ritual associations and meanings, not fundamentally different in
how an adherent of either religion (Catholic or Hindu) would a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> You miss my point: the practice can't be done on or off campus until the
> student is initiated into the practice. The initiation ceremony is
> unquestionably religious in nature and the fact that it can't be severed from
> the pr
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Yes, I'm not informed of the the DLF program
> particulars, so perhaps much of my argument is moot,
> and I apologize for speaking without knowing the
> particulars.
>
> But, for clarity: regarding the mandated "quiet time"
> -- is
Well said. The seeds of later unfolding petals of knowledge (to use an
inelegant time-lapse metaphor) were planted right at the beginning, I agree.
The spiritual agenda was broached at the beginning, however it wasn't
emphasized. You have to realize that we had to soften the general audience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Deceptive in the sense that there was a hidden agenda.
>
> Maharishi's original and lasting intention was to spiritually regenerate the
> world. TM was the original and fundamental vehicle to accomplish that
> intention. With m
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Correct, mantras are not prayers; that was not my point. And although they
> are semantically meaningless sounds, they have a rich history of very
> specific religious and ritual associations and meanings, not fundamentally
> diff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Universities have all sorts of openly religious groups from all sorts of
> religions using university facilities to openly and notoriously practice
> their religions and espouse their beliefs. Using federal money to do so
> (other
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Correct, mantras are not prayers; that was not my
> point. And although they are semantically meaningless
> sounds, they have a rich history of very specific
> religious and ritual associations and meanings, not
> fundamentally diffe
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Well said. The seeds of later unfolding petals of
> knowledge (to use an inelegant time-lapse metaphor)
> were planted right at the beginning, I agree. The
> spiritual agenda was broached at the beginning,
> however it wasn't emphas
>
> But, for clarity: regarding the mandated "quiet time" -- is that >something
> that's already designated in schools? Or is it only in >those schools who
> decide to participate in the TM program?
Om, my daughter is taking community college level courses up in St. Paul, Minn
where a tea
Wine may have a rich history of religious use, but its general use is
independent of any specific ritualistic use. The commandment of wearing
undergarments for Mormons doesn't make Fruit of the Loom or Victoria's Secret
sectarian choices.
The TM mantras, on the other hand, are entirely depende
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan wrote:
**snip
> If student independently elects and applies to a charter school that is
> upfront that: i) it has a silent time, and ii) DLF will teach students for
> free off campus for those who elect to do so, that would appear to meet the
> The TM mantras, on the other hand, are entirely dependent on the Hindu/Tantra
> traditions of India and have no independant utility outside those traditions.
> To the extent that TM represents the first use of mantras "independent" of
> that religious tradition, it's a weak example since the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2009, at 9:33 PM, bob_brigante wrote:
>
> >>
> >> The TM mantras, on the other hand, are entirely dependent on the
> >> Hindu/Tantra traditions of India and have no independant utility
> >> outside those traditions. To the ex
Sorry for being so obtuse. Yes, one could be a TM meditator and not get all
hopped up on all the inside dope that becoming an initiator, governor, siddha,
raja promised and somewhat delivered. Not requiring the entire belief system
in order to learn the technique is one of the reasons why ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan wrote:
>
> **snip
>
> > If student independently elects and applies to a charter school that
> > is upfront that: i) it has a silent time, and ii) DLF will teach
> > students for
> > And if all the instruction (including puja
> > and checking) took place off school grounds?
> >
Marek Reavis wrote:
> If you can't teach TM without the puja,
> then you can't federally fund it in the
> classroom. If, however, a group of students
> who had started TM on their own began the
Vaj wrote:
> People seem to forget to mention that they're
> not just kneeling, they're kneeling in front
> of someone, who in English translation is
> "the Guru God" ("Guru Dev"). Hello?
>
Buddhists all over the world bow down in front
of someone almost every day, but Buddhism isn't
a relig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
wrote:
>
> Vaj wrote:
> > People seem to forget to mention that they're
> > not just kneeling, they're kneeling in front
> > of someone, who in English translation is
> > "the Guru God" ("Guru Dev"). Hello?
> >
> Buddhists all over
Marek,
Thanks for your feedback on this and related posts. They have helped me further
my thinking.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan wrote:
>
> **snip
>
> > If student independently elects and applies to a c
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doughney" wrote:
[...]
> While various local TMO functionaries here and there have announced that
> the DLF funds are available, there's been no press coverage that
> would suggest that there have been any new schools taking Lynch up on
> his offer. A
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Wine may have a rich history of religious use, but its
> general use is independent of any specific ritualistic
> use. The commandment of wearing undergarments for
> Mormons doesn't make Fruit of the Loom or Victoria's
> Secret s
below
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" reavismarek@
wrote:
> >
> > IMO, I would expect that someone saying the rosary
> > (essentially a collection of "hail marys" and "our
> > fathers") would be getting many of the
Yes, same for me. Good discussion.
**
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan wrote:
>
> Marek,
>
> Thanks for your feedback on this and related posts. They have helped me
> further my thinking.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
> >
> > ---
Duveyoung wrote:
> And Turq is a predator by his own statements
> -- even if I had paraphrased his attitude into
> "I'd hit that" and not nutshelled it to your
> satisfaction...
>
Go get them, Tiger!
Vaj wrote:
> Many believe TM is "Vedic", that Garlic is
> non-Ayurvedic and a long list of other
> hilarities that could have been easily rectified
> if one took the time to, say, visit India
> or to talk to some authentic sources...
>
Because the fact is that almost all of the Indian
traditi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> Yes, same for me. Good discussion.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan wrote:
> >
> > Marek,
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback on this and related posts. They have helped me
> > further my thinking.
> >
> > --- I
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
>
> Did you as a TM teacher consider yourself a failure
> if your students went off and practiced TM on their
> own, with an occasional checking session, and never
> came to any advanced lectures or went on residence
> courses or got any
GrateSwan, you've correctly identified the two clauses re religion in the
Constitution, the "establishment" clause ("Congress shall make no law
respecting the establishment of religion,. . .") and the "free exercise" clause
(". . . or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.")
Both clauses are b
Marek Reavis wrote:
> ...because even a cursory examination of the TMO
> history (and present structure) demonstrates that
> it is replete with religious imagery, religious
> language, religious beliefs, and a religious and
> philosophical mission. The state cannot become
> entangled with it
Right, but you can make the threshold requirement of the first prong by stating
that the intention is secular, rather than religious. If, for example, the
stated intention of promoting TM in schools was to create heaven on earth and
have all the students act in accordance with the will of god i
> > Because the fact is that almost all of the Indian
> > traditions are derived from the Vedic tradition.
> > According to David Frawley, the Vidic Sanskrit
> > speakers are the source of the yoga tradition, the
> > six systems, Buddhism, and all the modern sectarian
> > traditions of India. All t
A law setting aside a time of silence in public schools for "meditation or
voluntary prayer" violates the Establishment clause when its "sole purpose" as
evidenced by its text and legislative history is to endorse a religious
exercise, and it thus has no secular purpose. (Wallace v. Jaffree (19
Going meta (much to Sal's disgust):
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> Since my original post was specifically
> about the TM puja, *which it is required
> that students participate in* as part of
> learning TM, and the evader in question
> managed to avoid ever dealing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> Going meta (much to Sal's disgust):
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> > Since my original post was specifically
> > about the TM puja, *which it is required
> > that students participate in* as part of
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> A law setting aside a time of silence in public schools for "meditation or
> voluntary prayer" violates the Establishment clause when its "sole purpose"
> as evidenced by its text and legislative history is to endorse a religious
>
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
wrote:
>
> >
> Well, Vaj, I don't think David Frawley is a liar, and
> he is a Vedic scholar. According to Frawley, the Vedas
> are rife with yogic and tantric notions - the Atharva
> Veda has many tantric mantras in it.
>From AV:
IV,
Having so easily bent Barry to my will, I'm happy
to respond to his questions:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> Unless (light bulb going on over my head!)
> I just repost the questions below, spelling
> out in no uncertain terms exactly WHO the
> TM True Believer I am po
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
> >
> > Wine may have a rich history of religious use, but its
> > general use is independent of any specific ritualistic
> > use. The commandment of wearing undergarments fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> Having so easily bent Barry to my will, I'm happy
> to respond to his questions:
Wow. Nearly 70 years old, has meditated using
the "fastest, most effective method of achieving
enlightenment on the planet" for more than 30
years, and t
(snip)
> If Maharishi had invented Catholicism, he would have tried to get it
> into the schools by saying, "The rosary is a recitation of two simple
> prayers to the Mother of Jesus and to God the Father, but you don't have
> to believe that they exist -- just say the words as we teach you to
>
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > Having so easily bent Barry to my will, I'm happy
> > to respond to his questions:
>
> Wow. Nearly 70 years old, has meditated using
> the "fastest, most effective method
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> >
> > WHY should we believe that you chose never to
> > mention it then, but choose to mention it now?
>
> The question is, why should we believe *Barry*
> when he claims I nev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > >
> > > WHY should we believe that you chose never to
> > > mention it then, but choose to mention it now?
> >
TurquoiseB wrote:
> I did a quick check of a.m.t
>
Just for the record, the a.m.t. search system
has been non-functioning for at least a week.
Google Groups - alt.meditation.transcendental
http://tinyurl.com/dxse42
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
wrote:
>
> TurquoiseB wrote:
> > I did a quick check of a.m.t
> >
> Just for the record, the a.m.t. search system
> has been non-functioning for at least a week.
>
> Google Groups - alt.meditation.transcendental
> http://tinyurl.c
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > > >
> > > > WHY should we believe that
Judy wrote:
> Hmm, I found 252 posts on alt.m.t from Willtex
> just now:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/d3nkq8
>
Only 252? By my count, I've posted over 8000,
since 1999, but anyway, Thank you, Judy - I've
been looking for some a.m.t. classics to post
for almost a week.
Like I said, the a.m.t. searc
John Manning wrote:
> Austin's dogs deserve better says eyewitness Ned Wynn.
>
Yeah, that Ned Wynn - he's a real straight-shooter!
Ned Wynn on Marshy:
"The guy has absolutely no style, no class. He's
the classic backward Dravidian reactionary, sexually
repressed, greedy, hypocritical, and a bal
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoog
TurquoiseB wrote:
> > (Funny too how you always complain about
> > *my* quoting posts from alt.m.t, as though
> > they couldn't have any relevance to anything
> > going on here.)
> >
Yes, it is really funny - at least I think it's
funny, and fun to post these old messages, just
to see who has ch
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
wrote:
>
> TurquoiseB wrote:
> > > (Funny too how you always complain about
> > > *my* quoting posts from alt.m.t, as though
> > > they couldn't have any relevance to anything
> > > going on here.)
No, *I* wrote this *to* Barry.
This has some interesting points about the teaching. This is from a while a ago
so you may want to amend some statements. But these points caught my eye.
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
Andrew here has to resort to distorting the context of my
response, as well
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
wrote:
I forgot to add another point. After initiation we give the student their
handkerchief, a flower and a piece of fruit so they can enjoy the prasaad from
the puja. This is also typical of all Hindu pujas where eating the offering
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
wrote:
> Judy (from a post on alt.m.t):
> We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
> about their own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.
> I didn't. There's no pressure to do so. Some who
> had more recently learned TM sai
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> wrote:
>
> > Judy (from a post on alt.m.t):
> > We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
> > about their own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.
> > I didn't.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
>
> On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:22 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
>
> > I think this distinction you are making about whether it is
> > religious for the student verses the teacher is the critical
> > distinction. In a question of whether it is appropri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> wrote:
>
> > Judy (from a post on alt.m.t):
> > We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
> > about their own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.
> > I didn't.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> > The notion that because Hindus don't actively
> > participate in pujas, and TM students don't actively
> > participate, therefore TM students are participating
> > w
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
[Curtis wrote:]
> > > This ceremony of "gratitude" was also prescribed as a
> > > method for purification of the world around the time
> > > of Maharishi's death. Teachers i
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" wrote:
> Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
> allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
> that you have been participating in a religion
> all this time.
BTW, Geeze, what did you think of Barry's recent
long post in which he
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" wrote:
>
> > Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
> > allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
> > that you have been participating in a religion
> > all this time.
> > Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
> > allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
> > that you have been participating in a religion
> > all this time.
> >
Judy wrote:
> BTW, Geeze, what did you think of Barry's recent
> long post in which he claimed to have been utterly
> non
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine wrote:
>
> On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:07 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> >>> Judy doesn't want to be told it's a religious rite because
> >>> she's already determined that she believes something else
> >>> and her denial is very deep on many things TM.
> >>
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" wrote:
> >
> > > Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
> > > allowing yourself to agree with them would mea
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine wrote:
> >
> > On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:07 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
> >
> > >>> Judy doesn't want to be told it's a religious rite because
> > >>> she's already determined that she believes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> Jeez, how much more intellectually cowardly can
> you get, Sal?
Sal is not an intellectually coward. She is bitter and old.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
>
> This might be the best summary rap about the movement. And you accurately
> described the arc of my own start in the TMO, too, uncanny. That's almost
> exactly the way I came into, and felt about, the movement.
>
My experience to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" wrote:
> >
> > This might be the best summary rap about the movement. And you accurately
> > described the arc of my own start in the TMO, too, uncanny. That's almost
> > exac
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" wrote:
>
> > Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
> > allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
> > that you have been participating in a religion
> > all this time.
below
"curtisdeltablues" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
wrote:
> >
> > > Judy (from a post on alt.m.t):
> > > We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
> > > about their own
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote:
>
> below
> "curtisdeltablues" wrote:
Thanks for your comments Edg. I think you are right on with the non-verbal
gesture distinctions. If you get good at it, it is like putting your hand out
for a handshake, people respond without thinki
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