Hi Rocky Road,
I should point out that I'm not very familiar with Sibelius 4 (I've
downloaded the demo), but I have used Sibelius 3 at the school I work at
for producing educational materials.
* Hide time signatures and key signatures
Yes.
* Hide rests
Yes.
* Measures which allow any
Rocky Road wrote:
Do they allow two locations like Finale do from the one purchase? I
have Finale on my laptop for mobile work and on a desktop computer for
office work.
Yes, they do. And unlike Finale, you can also use an unregister
function to automatically unregister one copy with their
On 10 Jul 2005, at 12:22 AM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
First, while Sibelius offered a competitive discount to Finale owners,
to my knowledge, C/N/M has never offered Sibelius users a competitive
discount.
I'm afraid you are sorely mistaken:
http://www.finalemusic.com/store/specialoffers.aspx
However, from reading your post it seems there is a small but important
difference: with Finale you have to hand in your Sibelius master disk.
As far as I understood the Sibelius offer does not require this, it just
requires proof of ownership.
Perhaps I am wrong?
Johannes
Darcy James Argue
John Howell wrote:
At 9:28 AM -0500 7/9/05, Robert Patterson wrote:
Isn't the fundamental problem here that the pie is not getting bigger?
Sibelius had the luxury of learning from Finale's mistakes. Its
original features list was a litany of Finale's (then) shortcomings.
Apparently its
Robert Patterson wrote:
[snip]
I don't agree about a big showdown. Both programs will more likely
stumble and muddle along in their respective directions. Honestly, I
can't believe so many grown adults are so worked up over software
marketing hype (which sfaict is the only thing anyone has
Robert Patterson wrote:
[snip]
There was that ultra-expensive Synclavier system that some were working
on in Dartmouth in the early eighties. This certainly predated Finale,
and it may have been a precursor to Sib. But I don't think it bore much
resemblance to the Mac/Win program that came
At 01:52 PM 7/10/05 +1000, Rocky Road wrote:
You might be a different Dennis but I'm sure there was a Dennis on
this forum swearing he'd never upgrade software that used
Challenge-Response copy protection. Isn't Sibelius CP even more
Draconian?
He was a different Dennis. I'm that Dennis. And
Richard Yates wrote:
[snip]
All of this reinforces my other comment about the poor documentation with
the demo. There is no way to fairly evaluate Sibelius' capabilities with
regard to Finale's. I have written to Sibelius and will report what I hear.
[snbip]
One thing about Sibelius, they are
Taris Flashpaw wrote:
Hi all
I've run into a bit of a quandary with the finale to a work I'm
currently trying to finish (which has been ongoing for about five
years). The fourth movement (of five) is a lovely passacaglia and the
bass line (on which the whole movement is based) only
Rocky Road - in Oz wrote:
Can Sibelius
* Hide time signatures and key signatures
* Hide rests
Yes. Right click on the note, choose hide from the context menu.
* Measures which allow any number of notes in them (such as a notated
scale of eight whole notes without needing to make a 32/4 time
Rocky Road wrote:
[snip] not greatly technology savvy (or interested) and will go with the
marketing flow. Even if Finale lift their game they will need to win
over the Retailers and Trade Show marketers.
It does make me wonder where Finale are getting their educational market
input from,
? sure it will.I'm working on a job right now for a violin cello
duo. In a few places the composer asks for double stop open strings to be
indicated by fingering - a parallel case to your need for two open guitar
strings.
Invoke the fingering text style, enter a 0 for open, hit
Rocky Road wrote:
Not to mention EPS export, broken for years and years, and probably
never to be fixed. I must say I'm very tempted to switch, at least for
some projects.
It's also quite amazing that many of us got more attention from
Sibelius than from MM.
Dennis
You might be a
Rocky Road wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
Er, doesn't Sibelius have a little copy protection/activation code
problem that ought to prevent you from switching, given that you
won't upgrade past Finale 2003?
Yep, they've got the same call-response sort of activation scheme that
Finale
Could this be a demo limit?? . I have no trouble dragging fingerings L-R
,
either with the mouse or with the arrows.
These fingerings are set up as articulations because it seemed that
shortcuts could not be assigned to text expressions. If that is not true,
how do you do it?
Richard
Will Roberts wrote:
[snip]
To be honest I think Sibelius's reputation for having a draconian copy
protection scheme is unjustified, particularly since Finale 2004
introduced almost exactly the same system, except that with Finale you
still can't de-authorize one of your computers without
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
However, from reading your post it seems there is a small but important
difference: with Finale you have to hand in your Sibelius master disk.
As far as I understood the Sibelius offer does not require this, it just
requires proof of ownership.
Perhaps I am wrong?
All of the above is true. For your needs I would clone a
shortcut-activated text expression and set it up to center horizontally on
the notehead, with the option to precisely place it vertically where the
mouse is clicked (rather than a default position, which is always measured
from the
Rocky Road wrote:
My school here in Sydney, Australia uses Finale, but this is because
I like it and I introduced it here when we brought computers into the
music department some years back (being head of music has its
privileges :-)
Indeed it does! There has to be some sort of
It seems the documentation with the demo may not be adequate for the
exacting work some of the members of this list do. If you are really
interested in giving Sibelius a good test, join the SibeliusList at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sibelius-list/
There are some real heavy hitters on that
Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
I have not explored in any detail, the
Sibelius software patents, and if there are any that relate to items
like dynamic parts linking, or house styles
I have no inside knowledge, but I think it is highly unlikely MM will be
hesitant to implement dynamic parts linking
At 08:34 AM 7/10/05 -0400, dhbailey wrote:
It does make me wonder where Finale are getting their educational market
input from, since Sibelius seems to be winning the battle hands-down!
My city just built a new high school and rebuilt the old high school, so
now we have two 4-year high schools,
dhbailey schrieb:
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
However, from reading your post it seems there is a small but
important difference: with Finale you have to hand in your Sibelius
master disk. As far as I understood the Sibelius offer does not
require this, it just requires proof of ownership.
At 1:27 PM +1000 7/10/05, Rocky Road wrote:
My school here in Sydney, Australia uses Finale, but this is because
I like it and I introduced it here when we brought computers into
the music department some years back (being head of music has its
privileges :-) ). However, all around us, it
John Howell wrote:
MakeMusic lost us as steady and
reliable customers the year our incoming students had Macs with OS X,
and Finale for OS X did not exist. This had absolutely nothing to do
with marketing, and everything to do with a complete missreading of the
market and a complete failure
Am 08.07.2005 um 08:57 schrieb Andrew Stiller:
the still-small set
of musicians who can play a quintuplet accurately in the first place.
You can't be serious. Chopin requires them!
I understand the point he's trying to make. Accurate execution of a quintuplet is rather tricky. Chopin may
I am probably going to have to buy a copy of Sibelius soon, just so
that our school can cater for students who already have this
package at home and are more used to it. If a student from our
school goes to a shop without talking to me first, they always seem
to be directed to Sibelius.
I
Robert Patterson schrieb:
That said, I still think Steve Jobs cut the knees out from under his
developers by cutting off OS9 booting one year too soon. And it is a
continuing pattern...
That may be the case, but Sibelius managed anyway, and by the looks of
it will manage the move to
Taris Flashpaw wrote:
Hi all
I've run into a bit of a quandary with the finale to a work I'm
currently trying to finish (which has been ongoing for about five
years). The fourth movement (of five) is a lovely passacaglia and the
bass line (on which the whole movement is based) only
At 05:41 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
These fingerings are set up as articulations because it seemed that
shortcuts could not be assigned to text expressions. If that is not true,
how do you do it?
Hi Richard -
The way to set up kbd shortcuts for text styles is as follows:
File Preferences
On Jul 9, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Owain Sutton wrote:
In many cases the new 'deciaml' metronome marking is reached by an
accel/rall from the old tempo - how would you notate that?
Look, either there is a proportion or there isn't. If there is, you
can put it in a tempo marking (e.g.: 8:7
By exploring this menu you will see that there is a huge amount of
flexibility in how you set Sib up for shortcuts
Thanks again but this does seem to be going in circles.
- The shortcut you describe does not go to a specific predefined bit of
text. It only opens a text cursor into which you
Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jul 9, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Owain Sutton wrote:
In many cases the new 'deciaml' metronome marking is reached by an
accel/rall from the old tempo - how would you notate that?
Look, either there is a proportion or there isn't. If there is, you
can put it in a tempo
To my comment,
First, while Sibelius offered a competitive discount to Finale owners,
to my knowledge, C/N/M has never offered Sibelius users a competitive
discount.
Darcy James Argue wrote:
I'm afraid you are sorely mistaken:
to which I can only note, that it's not the first time I've
At 09:53 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
Thanks again but this does seem to be going in circles.
- The shortcut you describe does not go to a specific predefined bit of
text. It only opens a text cursor into which you then have to type the
characters that you want.
Well, of course - you're not
This would necessitate typing the number each time
(though you could set up all the numbers in a word menu and assign
shortcuts, but why bother).
Okay I made a 'word menu' with shortcuts to the individual items but can
find no way to use it. The name of the word menu I made appears in no
On 10 Jul 2005, at 13:53, dhbailey wrote:
Why not let the Finale developers spend a bit more time on each
upgrade (as it was in the older days) and give us a more substantial
upgrade?
They could charge a bit more (like Sibelius does) for each of their
non-regular upgrades, to provide
Does anyone have an address for a Finale mailing list?
I have some questions I'd like to ask,
All the best,
Lawrence
"þaes
ofereode - þisses swa maeg"http://lawrenceyates.co.ukDulcian
Wind Quintet: http://dulcianwind.co.uk
___
Finale mailing
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone have an address for a Finale mailing list?
I have some questions I'd like to ask,
All the best,
You've joined it, this message came through it.
--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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- The shortcut you describe does not go to a specific predefined bit of
text. It only opens a text cursor into which you then have to type the
characters that you want.
Well, of course - you're not always going to want them same fingering are
you? I would never want to have to change a
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 7:05
PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] The ultimate
Sibelius question...
Does
anyone
At 12:30 PM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
I want different shortcut keys for specific fingering numbers. I do
appreciate your trying to help with this Ken but you really do not seem to
be following what I am trying to do very closely. Perhaps you are not
familiar with Finale.
Richard -
You're right,
Michael Cook schrieb:
My bet is that MakeMusic would gain in the long run by not releasing a
Finale 2007 next year and bringing out a real must-have update a
year or so later.
I would agree with you, except that I think MakeMusic cannot afford to
let Fin2k6 stand against Sibelius 4 for
What? You mean another one?
Johannes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
Does anyone have an address for a Finale mailing list?
I have some questions I'd like to ask,
All the best,
Lawrence
þaes ofereode - þisses swa maeg
http://lawrenceyates.co.uk http://lawrenceyates.co.uk/
Dulcian Wind
Ken Durling schrieb:
You're right, I'm not very familiar with Finale. That's why I'm here on
this list. I'm learning quite a bit. I see now that you want a one-step
fingering shortcut, and it may not be possible with Sibelius. But I
have fingering set up to be Alt-F and then a numeral,
Guys,
Lawrence was making a JOKE -- that with all the recent Siblelius talk,
one might think this was a Sibelius list. (Kinda spoils the joke if
you have to explain it.)
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 10 Jul 2005, at 4:06 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
What? You mean
Johannes -
You may well be right and I'm fine with that. I'm not in a competition
mode, and I wasn't trying to assert Sib's superiority - I'm just trying to
represent Sibelius *accurately.* I appreciate there will be differences in
many areas, and this may be one of them. I've always
You may well be right and I'm fine with that. I'm not in a competition
mode, and I wasn't trying to assert Sib's superiority - I'm just trying
to
represent Sibelius *accurately.*
As am I. Remember I am trying to find a reason to switch. I really want
accurate info if I am going spend money.
On 9 Jul 2005 at 23:22, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
It occurs to me, too, that there is an aspect to some of these things
that may affect certain items. I have not explored in any detail, the
Sibelius software patents, and if there are any that relate to items
like dynamic parts linking, or
On 10 Jul 2005 at 15:33, Rocky Road wrote:
PS: The huge discussion of Sibelius 4 here is the first time I've seen
this list have more hmmm interesting rather than not bad, but no
dice posts. I don't remember the tenor of potential Sibelius
acceptance ever being as strong here before.
Seems
At 01:45 PM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
Dozens of times slower is entirely accurate (or even understated) as I
have explained. Finale can space bars so that there are no collisions with
fingering numbers. Apparently Sibelius cannot. Tweaking the placement of all
the necessary notes would take at least
I wonder if it doesn't have as much to do with the lousy Fin06 feature
enhancement list as much as anything in particlar about Sib4. I for one
am certainly disappointed by the Fin06 list.
Rocky Road wrote:
PS: The huge discussion of Sibelius 4 here is the first time I've seen
this list have
On 10 Jul 2005 at 9:46, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
Run even new versions of Sibelius and Finale side-by-side. Which one
can you start plunking at and have it put music on the screen?
Sibelius. Even with a template set to come up immediately, Finale
wants you to be too informed first, almost
dhbailey wrote:
They've already
reduced their development department for Finale so they could put more
developers to work on MakeMusic.
Can you please include some proof to this statement?
Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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--- dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
This is wonderful for the continued growth and
survival of MakeMusic,
but it doesn't bode so well for Finale, I'm afraid.
They've already
reduced their development department for Finale so
they could put more
developers to work on MakeMusic.
On Jul 10, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
What? You mean another one?
Johannes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
Does anyone have an address for a Finale mailing list?
I have some questions I'd like to ask,
Sheesh, everyone!
It was a JOKE!
Maybe it was a dry British-type joke
On 10 Jul 2005 at 20:58, Michael Cook wrote:
[re: non-annual upgrades of Finale:]
There's another thing to consider: many users prefer not to purchase
the upgrade every year anyway: they will wait another year or two
until the latest version really seems to represent a substantial
improvement
On Jul 10, 2005, at 2:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:But once you're in simple entry, I just don't seen enough differences to make a difference, except for the kindergarten large size of the page layout in Finale (something that has always made no sense to me at all). I just tried setting up a
On 10 Jul 2005 at 11:49, Ken Durling wrote:
At 09:53 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
Thanks again but this does seem to be going in circles.
- The shortcut you describe does not go to a specific predefined bit
of text. It only opens a text cursor into which you then have to type
the characters
At 03:37 PM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
In other words, Sibelius allows mid-measure note entry (in an empty
measure), while Finale doesn't.
This was new in v.3, and a relief it was!
Ken
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On 10 Jul 2005 at 15:37, Lon Price wrote:
On Jul 10, 2005, at 2:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
But once you're in simple entry, I just don't seen enough
differences to make a difference, except for the kindergarten large
size of the page layout in Finale (something that has always made no
List,
I just bought GPO and the Finale upgrade to 2006 (and another gig of
RAM!). But I have a rather simple question:
With all of the talk about how processor/RAM intensive GPO is, I'd
likely do most of my work routing MIDI through my MIDI keyboard (or
maybe, sometimes, the Finale
Hello, greater wisdom,
I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this (or discussed it already
in this forum):
Pull down the File menu, and the New command doesn't have the
disclosure arrow next to it showing me my subchoices. The arrows are
there for Mass Edit and Tools menus, though not for
At 05:48 PM 7/10/05 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
I don't quite get this criticism.
Using the Sibelius 4 demo and my copy of WinFin2K3, if I launch the
new document wizard and use Finale in Simple Entry mode, it works
almost precisely the same way as Sibelius.
Once you're there, which is far
On 10 Jul 2005, at 23:57, Andrew Levin wrote:Pull down the File menu, and the New command doesn't have the disclosure arrow next to it showing me my subchoices. The arrows are there for Mass Edit and Tools menus, though not for TGTools menu. The menus still behave as if the arrows are there, but
David W. Fenton wrote:
Yes, there *is* a big difference. In Finale, you hold down your
shortcut key to determine which fingering you want, then click on the
note you want it applied to. This feels like one step to me, since
nothing happens until the mouse click. In Sibelius, you have to
On 10 Jul 2005 at 19:17, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 05:48 PM 7/10/05 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
I don't quite get this criticism.
Using the Sibelius 4 demo and my copy of WinFin2K3, if I launch the
new document wizard and use Finale in Simple Entry mode, it works
almost precisely the
On 11 Jul 2005 at 0:30, Will Roberts wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
Yes, there *is* a big difference. In Finale, you hold down your
shortcut key to determine which fingering you want, then click on
the note you want it applied to. This feels like one step to me,
since nothing happens
Jari Williamsson wrote:
dhbailey wrote:
They've already reduced their development department for Finale so
they could put more developers to work on MakeMusic.
Can you please include some proof to this statement?
I can't recall the exact message from a few years ago in which it was
On Jul 9, 2005, at 2:14 AM, Lon Price wrote:
1. Virtually every slur has to be tweaked. If I change the music
spacing I can pretty much count on slurs going haywire, being drawn at
an ungodly height, for instance, and colliding with all manner of
notational elements--ties, accidentals,
I thought it was a great joke!! :-)
Rick Neal
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Jul 10, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
What? You mean another one?
Johannes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
Does anyone have an address for a Finale mailing list?
I have some questions I'd like to ask,
[FinMac 2005b]
There's a really annoying bug in Finale that's been there for years.
When a note with an accidental is tied to the next bar and then tied
again to another note in this same bar, the final note is given a
redundant accidental. For example, in 4/4: whole note with accidental
On 11 Jul 2005, at 02:30, John Bell wrote:[FinMac 2005b]There's a really annoying bug in Finale that's been there for years. When a note with an accidental is tied to the next bar and then tied again to another note in this same bar, the final note is given a redundant accidental. For example, in
All this talk of Sibelius made me curious so I've been messing with the
demo most of the day.
Two questions:
1 - Can I position the Title text anywhere I want it to be? I can get it
to move up and down. But, horizontally I can only make it be justified
left, right or center. It cannot be moved
At 02:30 AM 7/11/05 +0100, John Bell wrote:
There's a really annoying bug in Finale that's been there for years.
And another one -- the bass-clef first-note speedy-entry bug. Type along
from the computer keyboard and at random the first note of some measures
will be way up high, as if it were
On Jul 10, 2005, at 9:58 PM, John Bell wrote:
On 11 Jul 2005, at 02:30, John Bell wrote:
[FinMac 2005b]
There's a really annoying bug in Finale that's been there for years.
When a note with an accidental is tied to the next bar and then tied
again to another note in this same bar, the
On 11 Jul 2005, at 03:17, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:And another one -- the bass-clef first-note speedy-entry bug. Type along from the computer keyboard and at random the first note of some measures will be way up high, as if it were displaying a treble clef. The bug's still there in 2005b. Yes
All this talk of Sibelius made me curious so I've been messing with the
demo most of the day.
Two questions:
You're asking ME??? :-)
Richard
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James gilbert asked:
In Sibelius:
1 - Can I position the Title text anywhere I want it to be? I can get it
to move up and down. But, horizontally I can only make it be justified
left, right or center. It cannot be moved left and right.
You can edit the text style (under the House Styles
Andrew,
MIDI Patch changes don't affect GPO -- the only important thing is the
channel number. So provided you assign instrument channels in a
logical order (like, say, score order), the only thing you have to do
is change your output device from your MIDI keyboard to GPO Studio.
(Also
At 07:03 PM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
I know Sibelius' marketing department has all the die-hard fans and
notation software novices believing that Sibelius is more intuitive and
easier, but I say that's nonsense. (
I honestly think that really only applies to novice users. For those of us
After quoting a bit of my comments, including
It occurs to me, too, that there is an aspect to some of these things
that may affect certain items. I have not explored in any detail, the
Sibelius software patents, and if there are any that relate to items
like dynamic parts linking, or house
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