That's only the Active Record implementation (I did miss that 2 files
though). We are at 4 files found now - excluding yiilite.php obviously -.
However, I think these few situations do make a good use of multiple classes
inside a file (PHP doesn't allow nested classes but at least it allows
multi
>
> In the framework/db/ dir I can't see any file with multiple classes.
>
e.g.,
http://yii.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/framework/db/ar/CActiveRecord.php
http://yii.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/framework/db/ar/CActiveFinder.php
-Matt
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:54 PM, ekerazha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Matthew Ratzloff wrote:
>
> The database classes, for instance.
>
In the framework/db/ dir I can't see any file with multiple classes.
Matthew Ratzloff wrote:
>
> One class per file is not "over-engineering".
>
It does depend on the situation.
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The database classes, for instance.
One class per file is not "over-engineering".
-Matt
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:12 PM, ekerazha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Matthew Ratzloff wrote:
> >
> > - Multiple classes in a single file. I doubt ZF will ever do this, as it
> > is
> > a maintenance hea
Sorry for the double message, the last one is the good one.
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Pardon, "CComponent.php"
ekerazha wrote:
>
> I've also found CApplication.php
>
> It seems like this is done only in a very few cases (atm I've found 2
> files), with very small support-classes, avoiding over-engineering and
> file invasion.
>
>
> ekerazha wrote:
>>
>>
>> Matthew Ratzloff
I've also found CApplication.php
It seems like this is done only in a very few cases (atm I've found 2
files), with very small support-classes, avoiding over-engineering and file
invasion.
ekerazha wrote:
>
>
> Matthew Ratzloff wrote:
>>
>> - Multiple classes in a single file. I doubt ZF wi
Anything prefixed by "over-" is bad by definition :P
-Original Message-
From: ekerazha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:12 PM
To: fw-general@lists.zend.com
Subject: Re: [fw-general] Framework speed shotout -- question
Matthew Ratzloff wrote:
>
Matthew Ratzloff wrote:
>
> - Multiple classes in a single file. I doubt ZF will ever do this, as it
> is
> a maintenance headache.
>
Where do you see this? I've opened many files (maybe I've been unlucky :-D)
but the only file I found with multiple classes is the CApplication.php file
where t
>
> This would be a simple Zend_Tool provider to create; want to give it a try?
>
Sure, I'll take a look once Zend_Tool is code complete.
-Matt
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> -- Matthew Ratzloff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> (on Monday, 03 Nov
-- Matthew Ratzloff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(on Monday, 03 November 2008, 10:45 AM -0800):
> I think we need to reign in the personal attacks in this thread. Labels like
> "'so-called' professionals" and "incompetent" do nothing to further the
> discussion.
>
> Now that Qiang Xue has re-ran the
I think we need to reign in the personal attacks in this thread. Labels
like "'so-called' professionals" and "incompetent" do nothing to further the
discussion.
Now that Qiang Xue has re-ran the tests against RHEL 5 using Apache 2 and
the latest PHP release, it's evident that Yii Framework is quit
Isaak Malik-3 wrote:
>
> Also, I've run only 2 benchmarks per framework and they were all warm
> benchmarks, in theory real benchmarks should be performed several times
> and
> the average should be calculated out of those. And if we do that for my
> benchmarks this brings up the following resul
Note that I didn't perform *real* benchmarks so the results are not exact
from *real* benchmarks, they were just to show that these were much
different from Dandan's, where his ZFW benchmarks performed much worse than
Yii and mine slightly better, and how unreliable it can be to perform
benchmarks
Isaak Malik-3 wrote:
>
> *As for Yii:*
>
> Yii:
> 144.51 RPC without APC
> 153.62 RPC without APC
>
> Yiilite:
> 153.15 RPC without APC
> 129.01 RPC without APC
>
> Yii:
> 150.61 RPC with APC
> 151.99 RPC with APC
>
> Yiilite:
> 150.61 RPC with APC
> 156.76 RPC with APC
>
Ok. Using these b
With "your benchmark" I mean the pmjones' ones, I did not receive your
benchmarks Isaak.
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Isaak Malik-3 wrote:
>
> It seems like you didn't understand what I was trying to explain.
>
Don't worry, I perfectly understand it :-)
Isaak Malik-3 wrote:
>
> My "benchmarks" (quoted because I didn't intend to perform real
> benchmarks)
> were performed on a Windows XP everyday-computer (m
>> Martin Martinov-2 wrote:
>>>
>>> The bare fact that they say the tests were run on a windows vista pc
>>> says much by itself :-)
>>>
2008/11/3 ekerazha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> Karol Grecki wrote:
>>
>> You have no way to tell how this choice affected the benchmarks, you
>> cannot assume tha
Karol Grecki wrote:
>
> You have no way to tell how this choice affected the benchmarks, you
> cannot assume that every framework was slowed down equally. For example if
> I/O was particularly slow, that would penalize frameworks with larger
> number of includes more than others, skewing the res
It seems like you didn't understand what I was trying to explain. Have you
received my E-mail containing my benchmarks? If so compare them to the ones
the Yii author performed.
My "benchmarks" (quoted because I didn't intend to perform real benchmarks)
were performed on a Windows XP everyday-compu
Setting up a proper environment that at least a bit resembles what's used in
production is a matter of professionalism, I don't think you will convince
anyone here otherwise. It puts into questions author's technical abilities
as a whole. You have no way to tell how this choice affected the benchm
Matthew Weier O'Phinney-3 wrote:
>
> You miss several important issues: it's not necessarily about testing on
> Windows, it's the entire methodology. If you want to have a good
> benchmark on windows, use a reasonable production environment: dedicated
> machine, using IIS + FastCGI. Apache on Wi
-- ekerazha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(on Monday, 03 November 2008, 02:43 AM -0800):
> That's insignificant, he didn't test some frameworks on a personal computer
> with Windows Vista and other frameworks on a supercomputer; his test was
> perfectly fair. Absolute results of that benchmark are insi
That's insignificant, he didn't test some frameworks on a personal computer
with Windows Vista and other frameworks on a supercomputer; his test was
perfectly fair. Absolute results of that benchmark are insignificant, you
should care about relative results.
As I've already said (I quote myself)
On Nov 2, 2008, at 18:06 , Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote:
This is true also on Linux desktops. As I've been benchmarking and
profiling ZF for the 1.7.0 release, I've occasionally run benchmarks
on
my own machine (which runs Ubuntu). Interestingly, I often get very
different results than when
-- Isaak Malik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(on Sunday, 02 November 2008, 11:33 PM +0100):
> You're viewing it from the viewpoint, that sentence was not about the
> scripting language itself not was it about the frameworks
> specifically. It was about the fact that web applications perform much
> wors
You're viewing it from the viewpoint, that sentence was not about the
scripting language itself not was it about the frameworks specifically. It
was about the fact that web applications perform much worser on an
everyday-computer vs a production server.
Since these benchmarks were performed on an
Martin Martinov-2 wrote:
>
> The bare fact that they say the tests were run on a windows vista pc
> says much by itself :-)
>
Are you (and other professed software architects) saying that there's a
"Windows Vista-way" and a "Linux way" for PHP programming? PHP is a high
level interpreted langu
Of course, production environments use outdated PHP and Apache releases
because Linux package maintainers upgrade infrequently. These are the
versions that are most often found in the wild, not the latest releases.
It's perfectly fine to benchmark with these older versions--but they should
be the
dandans wrote:
>
> Your empty attack doesn't make you sound more scientific or competent.
>
> We all know testing environment affects test absolute numbers. However,
> the purpose of the Yii benchmark is trying to compare frameworks. If you
> can point out which test applications are not set u
Matthew Weier O'Phinney-3 wrote:
>
> -- dandans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> (on Saturday, 18 October 2008, 07:56 PM -0700):
>> holografix wrote:
>> > If you download benchmark scripts from
>> > http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/ you will see that zf benchmark
>> is
>> > not correct.
>> >
Matthew Weier O'Phinney-3 wrote:
>
> -- dandans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> (on Saturday, 18 October 2008, 07:56 PM -0700):
>> holografix wrote:
>> > If you download benchmark scripts from
>> > http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/ you will see that zf benchmark
>> is
>> > not correct.
>> >
His reply may be frank, but it's true. No one runs PHP on Windows Vista in
any real world environment, so benchmarking in that environment is
pointless. You can go one of three routes:
- Debian Etch with default PHP and Apache packages
- RHEL 5 or CentOS 5 with default PHP and Apache packages
- S
-- dandans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(on Saturday, 18 October 2008, 07:56 PM -0700):
> holografix wrote:
> > If you download benchmark scripts from
> > http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/ you will see that zf benchmark is
> > not correct.
> > From readme.txt:
> > Set the PHP include path by a
Isaak Malik-3 wrote:
>
> Dandans,
>
> I've performed the same benchmarks on a Windows XP, AMD Athlon XP 2000
> (1Ghz) system and concluded the following:
>
> There isn't a noticeable difference in requests per second when enabling
> APC
> or not, for me the the results were very close:
>
> I
Dandans,
I've performed the same benchmarks on a Windows XP, AMD Athlon XP 2000
(1Ghz) system and concluded the following:
There isn't a noticeable difference in requests per second when enabling APC
or not, for me the the results were very close:
I performed 2 Zend FW benchmarks for each:
167.
Karol Grecki wrote:
>
>
> dandans wrote:
>>
>> Ok, using the Zend test application created by Paul with slight change, I
>> re-did the test. Please check the result at
>> http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/
>>
>> Still, ZF does not gain much help from APC. I guess part of the reason is
>
dandans wrote:
>
> Ok, using the Zend test application created by Paul with slight change, I
> re-did the test. Please check the result at
> http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/
>
> Still, ZF does not gain much help from APC. I guess part of the reason is
> because ZF relies on PHP include_
Ok, using the Zend test application created by Paul with slight change, I
re-did the test. Please check the result at
http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/
Still, ZF does not gain much help from APC. I guess part of the reason is
because ZF relies on PHP include_path to find classes to be incl
pmjones wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> No mention of benchmarking is complete without me hawking my own
> research. ;-)
>
> The latest report is here:
>
>http://paul-m-jones.com/?p=315
>
> Attentive readers will note that I take great care to compare each of
> the framework systems on a lev
holografix wrote:
>
> If you download benchmark scripts from
> http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/ you will see that zf benchmark is
> not correct.
> From readme.txt:
> Set the PHP include path by appending the path to the Zend framework
> - Overwrite
> "/demos/Zend/Wildfire/application/c
Hi all,
No mention of benchmarking is complete without me hawking my own
research. ;-)
The latest report is here:
http://paul-m-jones.com/?p=315
Attentive readers will note that I take great care to compare each of
the framework systems on a level playing field. For example, database
This is how most benchmarks are done because it gives a general estimate of
the whole framework's performance.
What I meant is what Bradley Holt said. The right way, which is very
obvious, to include the framework files for production use is by only
including the ones your need, either by doing it
-- Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(on Friday, 10 October 2008, 07:05 AM -0400):
> -- monk.e.boy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> (on Friday, 10 October 2008, 02:14 AM -0700):
> > I just read:
> >
> > http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/
> >
> > why does ZF slow down when APC is
Martin Martinov-2 wrote:
>
> The bare fact that they say the tests were run on a windows vista pc
> says much by itself :-)
>
>
Whoever did those benchmarks is obviously biased or incompetent, or both.
Those numbers are meaningless.
Karol
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On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 9:21 AM, monk.e.boy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>
>
> Isaak Malik-3 wrote:
> >
> > Firstly, you should know that they probably included the whole ZFW
> package
> > in a script and benchmarked it, this is to make a general estimate of the
> > framework's performance and shou
Isaak Malik-3 wrote:
>
> Firstly, you should know that they probably included the whole ZFW package
> in a script and benchmarked it, this is to make a general estimate of the
> framework's performance and should not be trusted for production use. Did
> you ever see a professional include the w
Anyway if you are really that bothered by performance just use procedural PHP :)
IMO a framework is there to help you maintain a codebase in an
effective manner and not to have to do some of the basics yourself.
All the talk of benchmarking tires me, I am sure ZF could and will be
better performin
> The bare fact that they say the tests were run on a windows vista pc
> says much by itself :-)
>
How so? All tests were run on the same system. I guess.
/C
2008/10/10 Isaak Malik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> In my opinion, those are some very unreliable benchmarks.
>
> Firstly, you should know that they probably included the whole ZFW package
> in a script and benchmarked it, this is to make a general estimate of the
> framework's performance and should not
In my opinion, those are some very unreliable benchmarks.
Firstly, you should know that they probably included the whole ZFW package
in a script and benchmarked it, this is to make a general estimate of the
framework's performance and should not be trusted for production use. Did
you ever see a pr
-- monk.e.boy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(on Friday, 10 October 2008, 02:14 AM -0700):
> I just read:
>
> http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/
>
> why does ZF slow down when APC is used? Are the results correct?
I'm going to take a look at their benchmarking scripts, but even without
looking,
If you download benchmark scripts from
http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/ you will see that zf benchmark is
not correct.
>From readme.txt:
Set the PHP include path by appending the path to the Zend framework
- Overwrite
"/demos/Zend/Wildfire/application/controllers/IndexController.php" with
monk.e.boy wrote:
>
> I just read:
>
> http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/
>
> why does ZF slow down when APC is used? Are the results correct?
>
> monk.e.boy
>
No, performance is usually doubled.
Karol
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