Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On 2017.05.29 11:59, Alexander Berntsen wrote: > On 27/05/17 18:17, Patrick Lauer wrote: > > But you do gentoo wrong, so as a user I'd like you to reconsider > what > > you wrote there and maybe take a long vacation. > I too do not hate our users (in which I include myself). > > Treating users

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On 27/05/17 18:17, Patrick Lauer wrote: > But you do gentoo wrong, so as a user I'd like you to reconsider what > you wrote there and maybe take a long vacation. I too do not hate our users (in which I include myself). Treating users as a worthless nuisance, unless they're writing ebuilds or

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On 05/24/2017 12:24 PM, Michał Górny wrote: Yes, I *do not want feedback* on *how to do Gentoo* from people who do *not help me do Gentoo* but instead only complain and demand. But you do gentoo wrong, so as a user I'd like you to reconsider what you wrote there and maybe take a long

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On 05/23/2017 12:31 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > [snip] > Your comments? > Since it's adding a list instead of warping an existing one, I say go ahead on the condition that everything important finds its way to a more open list. I'm subscribed to enough as it is. I am skeptical that it will lead

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Michał Górny wrote: > On śro, 2017-05-24 at 11:54 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> I was using the Firefox PulseAudio event as another example of stuff >> that happens in some obscure location that ordinary users don't know >> about. It was

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On śro, 2017-05-24 at 11:54 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 05:51:00AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote > > > What value would be obtained by posting this stuff for user comment? > > I'd also note that only one of those was posted on -dev-announce for > > comment as far as I'm aware.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 05:51:00AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote > What value would be obtained by posting this stuff for user comment? > I'd also note that only one of those was posted on -dev-announce for > comment as far as I'm aware. Two are package/project-level changes > which typically don't

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: >. > I agree with the others who've said that they don't think this is the > right solution. I've previously agreed we need moderation. I would > advocate that infra work on better moderation tools and/or mailing > list

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

Hi fellow Gentoo dev and user that read the list, Le 23 mai à 21:31 Michał Górny a écrit […] > Initially, the posting group would include active Gentoo developers > only. Afterwards, we will deploy a small moderator team whose purpose > would be controlling access to the list -- including both

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > I'd like to request Infra to establish a new mailing list that would > fill in the gap between our public mailing lists and the gentoo-core > mailing list. I agree with the others who've said that they don't think this is

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On śro, 2017-05-24 at 13:39 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On 24/05/2017 12:24, Michał Górny wrote: > > On śro, 2017-05-24 at 03:48 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 08:41:25AM +0200, Micha?? Górny wrote > > > > Next time such a thing happens, the discussion will happen on a >

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On 24/05/2017 12:24, Michał Górny wrote: > On śro, 2017-05-24 at 03:48 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 08:41:25AM +0200, Micha?? Górny wrote >>> Next time such a thing happens, the discussion will happen on a >>> completely private media or not happen at all because of the

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On śro, 2017-05-24 at 03:48 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 08:41:25AM +0200, Micha?? Górny wrote > > Next time such a thing happens, the discussion will happen on a > > completely private media or not happen at all because of the state > > of this mailing list. Is this what

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 08:41:25AM +0200, Micha?? Górny wrote >> Next time such a thing happens, the discussion will happen on a >> completely private media or not happen at all because of the state >> of this mailing

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 08:41:25AM +0200, Micha?? Górny wrote > Next time such a thing happens, the discussion will happen on a > completely private media or not happen at all because of the state > of this mailing list. Is this what you really want? Here's the part you did not quote... >> If

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On 05/24/2017 08:41 AM, Michał Górny wrote: > Next time such a thing happens, the discussion will happen on a > completely private media or not happen at all because of the state of > this mailing list. Is this what you really want? I wouldn't agree with it being an axiom of sorts that discussion

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On śro, 2017-05-24 at 01:55 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Let's step back a minute, and consider *WHY* non-developers feel the > need to join this list in the first place. Do you remember the acrimony > after the decision to not officially support a separate /usr without > initramfs? A lot of

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On śro, 2017-05-24 at 07:29 +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 23 May 2017, William Hubbs wrote: > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 09:31:18PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote: > > > I'd like to request Infra to establish a new mailing list that would > > > fill in the gap between our public

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

Let's step back a minute, and consider *WHY* non-developers feel the need to join this list in the first place. Do you remember the acrimony after the decision to not officially support a separate /usr without initramfs? A lot of people who complained on the Gentoo-User list were bluntly told

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

> On Tue, 23 May 2017, William Hubbs wrote: > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 09:31:18PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote: >> I'd like to request Infra to establish a new mailing list that would >> fill in the gap between our public mailing lists and the gentoo-core >> mailing list. >> >> Name:

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

Hi all, On 2017-05-23 21:08, William Hubbs wrote: > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 09:31:18PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote: > > Hi, everyone. > > > > I'd like to request Infra to establish a new mailing list that would > > fill in the gap between our public mailing lists and the gentoo-core > > mailing

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 09:31:18PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote: > Hi, everyone. > > I'd like to request Infra to establish a new mailing list that would > fill in the gap between our public mailing lists and the gentoo-core > mailing list. > > Name: gentoo-dev-internal > > Topic: technical

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

The same asnow with other words?, wouldn it be possible to repost peoples mail in gen-dev?. I mean instead of leting people send mail to gen-int we kidnapped the mail and send it to gen-dev so that all using gen-dev gets the hole conversion, and does only subscribe to gen-int only get to se posts

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Tue, 23 May 2017 20:32:03 + Erik Närström wrote: > I'snt the idea of creating a new mailing list to let gentoo-dev be > mesy?, in that case we could simply redirect all non-aproved posts > from gen-int to gen-dev. I mean, messy in the sense you'd have replies,

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

I'snt the idea of creating a new mailing list to let gentoo-dev be mesy?, in that case we could simply redirect all non-aproved posts from gen-int to gen-dev. /EKG On 23 May 2017 22:04, "Kent Fredric" wrote: > On Tue, 23 May 2017 21:31:18 +0200 > Michał Górny

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Tue, 23 May 2017 15:52:52 -0400 Philip Webb wrote: > Is this proposal itself not just a waste of valuable developer time > in moderating, censoring & deciding who is a sheep & who is a goat ? Its not censorship, because censorship is the practice of preventing something

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Tue, 23 May 2017 21:31:18 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > - public (open subscription), initially we may optionally copy all > subscribers from gentoo-dev so that they do not miss discussion, What would be the result if somebody replied to a g-dev-internal ML without

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

170523 Michał Górny wrote: > Sadly, it is not uncommon for threads on that mailing list to turn into > trollfests, get deranged or hijacked into completely different topics. > Things are so bad that the mailing list stops serving its purpose. It > involves a number of consequences: As a user,

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > > A. It gives a wider choice of tools for developers (and privileged > contributors) -- they can choose either the open or restricted mailing > list depending on the type of requested feedback. > > B. The gentoo-dev

[gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

Hi, everyone. I'd like to request Infra to establish a new mailing list that would fill in the gap between our public mailing lists and the gentoo-core mailing list. Name: gentoo-dev-internal Topic: technical discussions between active Gentoo contributors Restrictions: - public (open