On Thu, March 22, 2012 12:55 am, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 12:02:32PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote
>
>> I said this before, but it sounds useful to try to reiterate:
>>
>> * It's probable that service-specific files should not be included in
>> the init system package.
>> * Service-
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 09:35:55PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote
>
>> What we're talking about with systemd vs openrc, and things like ssh'd
>> first-time initialization is all within the realm of responsibility of
>> the packager. It's a shift in t
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 09:35:55PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote
> What we're talking about with systemd vs openrc, and things like ssh'd
> first-time initialization is all within the realm of responsibility of
> the packager. It's a shift in the way the distribution itself works.
> We're not talking a
> From: Walter Dnes [mailto:waltd...@waltdnes.org]
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:14 PM
> On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 09:35:55PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote
>
> > What we're talking about with systemd vs openrc, and things like ssh'd
> > first-time initialization is all within the realm of responsib
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 12:02:32PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote
>
>> I said this before, but it sounds useful to try to reiterate:
>>
>> * It's probable that service-specific files should not be included in
>> the init system package.
>> * Service-
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 12:02:32PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote
> I said this before, but it sounds useful to try to reiterate:
>
> * It's probable that service-specific files should not be included in
> the init system package.
> * Service-specific init files should probably be part of the
> distro-
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:40:27 -0400
> "Walter Dnes" wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 01:18:24AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
>>
>> > I'm not sure where you're going with this. We're discussing an init
>> > system and good, simple ways to st
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:40:27 -0400
"Walter Dnes" wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 01:18:24AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
>
> > I'm not sure where you're going with this. We're discussing an init
> > system and good, simple ways to start services. App maintainers are
> > going to continue to do wh
On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 01:18:24AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
> I'm not sure where you're going with this. We're discussing an init
> system and good, simple ways to start services. App maintainers are
> going to continue to do whatever they feel they ought to do, some might
> write the systemd fi
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 18:58:22 -0400
"Walter Dnes" wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:35:26AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
>
> > > systemd is like Captain Picard of STTNG (Start Trek The Next
> > > Generation) always saying "make it so". *HOW DO YOU "MAKE IT SO"?
> > > That intelligence has to b
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:33:11 -0400 (EDT), Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote:
> > > And for the Lennart fanboi, his coding is
> > > so questionable that "Lennartware" has become derogatory slang. (Of
> > > course, you already know that.)
> >
> > And this is such a common term nowadays that when Googling for
>
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:35:26AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
> > systemd is like Captain Picard of STTNG (Start Trek The Next
> > Generation) always saying "make it so". *HOW DO YOU "MAKE IT SO"?
> > That intelligence has to be somewhere. So what alternative do you
> > propose? A bash or ash
On March 19, 2012 at 9:13 AM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:48:54 -0400 (EDT), Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote:
>
> > And for the Lennart fanboi, his coding is
> > so questionable that "Lennartware" has become derogatory slang. (Of
> > course, you already know that.)
>
> And this is such
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 02:49:56 -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
>> > They ensure that there is an sshd configuration file and
>> > give a meaningful message (including where to find the sample) if it
>> > is not present, and check for the pr
Eliezer Croitoru writes:
> i want to try this systemd thingy, where do is start at?
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd
Wonko
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 02:49:56 -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> > They ensure that there is an sshd configuration file and
> > give a meaningful message (including where to find the sample) if it
> > is not present, and check for the presence of the hostkeys (again
> > which are needed) and creat
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:45:06 -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> * Really good in-site customization: The service unit files are
> trivially overrided with custom ones for specific installations,
> without needing to touch the ones installed by systemd or a program.
> With OpenRC, if I modify a /e
i want to try this systemd thingy, where do is start at?
i have a vm for testing and i might will adopt it on the real one.
Thanks,
Eliezer
On 18/03/2012 09:28, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
it
or at least try it, and given the level of discussion you present, I'm
starting to think you don't actua
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:48:54 -0400 (EDT), Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote:
> And for the Lennart fanboi, his coding is
> so questionable that "Lennartware" has become derogatory slang. (Of
> course, you already know that.)
And this is such a common term nowadays that when Googling for
Lennartware only one
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:23:37 -0400
"Walter Dnes" wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 03:15:02PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
>
> > Here's what I want:
> >
> > When the machine starts, I want services X, Y and Z to run. The
> > software figures out what order they must start in and how the deps
> > w
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 03:15:02PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
> Here's what I want:
>
> When the machine starts, I want services X, Y and Z to run. The
> software figures out what order they must start in and how the deps
> work. Clean, neat, easy.
systemd is like Captain Picard of STTNG (Star
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 01:25:32PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
> >
> > On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
> >>
> >> If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you
> >> can check the reason why
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 13:25:32 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> > Or, said configuration files might be corrupted; the OpenRC
> > initscript -- if written defensively -- will be able to detect that
> > and (perhaps) fallback to something sane. systemd can't do that,
> > short of putting all requi
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>>>
>>> If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you
>>> can check the reason why with
>>>
>>>
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
> On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>>
>> If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you
>> can check the reason why with
>>
>> systemctl status sshd.service
>>
>> And of course you can set another
Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:45:06 -0600
> Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
>> * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between
>> systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in
>> systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do,
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:45:06 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between
> systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in
> systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do, not *how*
> to do it. If the
On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>
> If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you
> can check the reason why with
>
> systemctl status sshd.service
>
> And of course you can set another mini sevice unit file to create the
> hostkeys. But I repeat: I t
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:02 AM, Graham Murray wrote:
> Canek Peláez Valdés writes:
>
>> * Really simple service unit files: The service unit files are really
>> small, really simple, really easy to understand/modify. Compare the 9
>> lines of sshd.service:
>>
>> $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.se
Canek Peláez Valdés writes:
> * Really simple service unit files: The service unit files are really
> small, really simple, really easy to understand/modify. Compare the 9
> lines of sshd.service:
>
> $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.service
> [Unit]
> Description=SSH Secure Shell Service
> After=s
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 17, 2012 at 10:57 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras
> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 17/03/12 13:53,
On March 17, 2012 at 10:57 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras
wrote:
> >
> >> On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> >> > Hello, Nikos.
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Mar 17, 20
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 17, 2012 at 9:45 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
> wrote:
>
>
>> But again, remember that I'm biased: I keep an overlay to run Gentoo
>> systems with only systemd; no OpenRC, no baselayout, no SysV. You guys
>> can try it if you wa
On March 17, 2012 at 9:45 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés"
wrote:
> But again, remember that I'm biased: I keep an overlay to run Gentoo
> systems with only systemd; no OpenRC, no baselayout, no SysV. You guys
> can try it if you want:
>
> http://xochitl.matem.unam.mx/~canek/gentoo-systemd-only/
>
>
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> > Hello, Nikos.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Happy Computer Users, sys
On Mar 18, 2012 9:44 AM, "Joshua Murphy" wrote:
>
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Nikos Chantziaras
wrote:
> > On 18/03/12 03:45, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> >>
>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that
> >> this is a bad thing): Using sys
On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > Hello, Nikos.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >
> >>> Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon.
> >
> >> No, we don't. I hope systemd arriv
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 18/03/12 03:45, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that
>> this is a bad thing): Using systemd, the same
>> configurations/techniques work the same in every
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
> On Mar 18, 2012 8:48 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziaras
>> wrote:
>> > On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello, Nikos.
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM
On Mar 18, 2012 8:48 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziaras
wrote:
> > On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello, Nikos.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>
> Happy Computer Users, s
On 18/03/12 03:45, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
Hello, Nikos.
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon.
No, we don
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>
>> Hello, Nikos.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon.
>>
>>
>>> No, we don't. I hope systemd arrive
On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
Hello, Nikos.
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon.
No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I
ever saw.
What's so good about it? What wil
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