If an application has both threadsafe and sessions-enabled set to true, then
will calls to the session API block so that one frontend instance can only
execute one such call at a time when there are several threads running?
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The session API is thread safe. Hence there is no need to single thread
requests.
On Sunday, September 4, 2011, Anders blabl...@gmail.com wrote:
If an application has both threadsafe and sessions-enabled set to true,
then will calls to the session API block so that one frontend instance can
only
Ok, good. Thanks.
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And threadsafe in this case means that the Session API can handle several
calls to it simultaneously from the same frontend instance? Or will it block
so that only one thread at a time can access the Session API? Because if it
blocks then it will become a bottleneck since the threads then have
Same problem here with sessions. 100% reproducible.
Please star issue.
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=4224
On Aug 10, 7:48 am, Yoshihito Yamanaka jfox4...@gmail.com wrote:
No, but other pages are using session.
(Maybe 500 error page is using session. so this
Do not use the method Text.toString(), use Text.getValue() instead.
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Three months ago instances were limited to 10 concurrent requests but
apparently this restriction will be completely removed (may already be
removed) and the CPU usage of your app will be the sole determinant of
concurrency. So if your app handles requests very efficiently it will
handle a
Don't agree, I don't see the evidence to support you claims.
I think it has probably been more successfull than they can afford and need
to start re-couping the
massive cost of running such an service.
But thats my opinion, only google can really tell us the truth of the
matter.
I will leave
money will never bite your hand.
On 9月4日, 上午6时23分, Tapir tapir@gmail.com wrote:
Please don't talk about others such storage, just for the computing.
Please the first post in this
thread:http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/...
Specially, here I compare
And what would be wrong if google was to constrain their bots to visit
GAE pages only once per week?
Or even better, what if GAE had a mechanism by which the apps could
announce when they have something new to be crawled?
On Sep 4, 12:07 am, Brandon Wirtz drak...@digerat.com wrote:
Returning a
i deleted some indexes in index.yaml. uploaded. then in console
Datastore Indexes, i see the deleted index are still serving.
are they really deleted?
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Hi Tim,
You right, CPU measure is quite mysterious, but there is nothing we can do
about it and we just have to optimize our code to reduce CPU use.
Francois
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Is GAE not just an API that is layered on top of their existing
infrastructure?
Somebody already asked something to the effect of what it would cost
or whether Google itself would go bankrupt if it had to pay the GAE
prices. Tim and somebody from Google labeled that (what seems like a
legitimate
You have to perform a vacuum_indexes operation.
On Sep 4, 10:08 am, saintthor saintt...@gmail.com wrote:
i deleted some indexes in index.yaml. uploaded. then in console
Datastore Indexes, i see the deleted index are still serving.
are they really deleted?
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I agree the instance based pricing is too complicated because of the nature
of how GAE works. On GAE we have no control on resources, Google control it
all. What we can control is what our code does during the life time within a
request.
On instance based pricing (the upcoming one) all we
I never said trolling, just said it was nonsense, with no evidence to
support the claim.
In addition the basic out of the box google infrastructure doesn't do
appengine. Appengine is a whole new
layer that has been developed,therwise you wouldn't see things like M/S or
HR datastore's
And you
I totally agree with you francois I just found the whining without
constructive dialog starting to be a more than a little painful.
I don't have a problem helping people get more out of appengine, but
baseless unsupported sniping isn't helping anyone, and the signal to
noise ratio is drowning
The articles are not here to say HOW TO SCALE. I was just saying scaling up
is much easier and effective than scaling out. You can scale up with just a
few clicks on IAAS like AWS, without ever considering scaling out, to
support a heavy site.
GAE can only does scale out, because its how its
Tim, I just curious why you think $30/month for hosing a site that has
(40-100 visitors a day on average, 100-250 pages views a day) is
reasonable? I suppose you know with that money you can host over a thousand
sites with that amount of traffic on a single machine elsewhere right?
Or just
thanks
i deleted 11 indexes in 17. i hope this can reduce my datastore ops.
On 9月4日, 下午4时13分, Philip philip.mates...@driggle.com wrote:
You have to perform a vacuum_indexes operation.
On Sep 4, 10:08 am, saintthor saintt...@gmail.com wrote:
i deleted some indexes in index.yaml.
Hey,
Yesterday, I've had a service running to delete a huge (1 TB) backlog of
data from our appengine instance. It was working well at around 100
entities/sec (has about a million entities). Today, however, it slowed down
to around 0-1 entities/sec, using the same code.
I tracked it down to
Oh, I ment the dataset has 100 million entities, so it's far from being
done. There is still around 850 GiB worth of data that wants to be deleted.
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However, why should GAE end up contributing more to the bottom line
than GMail or YouTube or many other GOOG properties will ever be able
to contribute - for each dollar of cost ?
On Sep 4, 4:24 am, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote:
I never said trolling, just said it was nonsense, with no
Hi
I don't want to migrate because I don't want to deal with os and complete
application stack.
I don't want to have to wake and find something has fallen over.
Also I know I can reduce my cost below $30 a month, probably to half that,
when I move to HRD.
I have had that site on appengine for
It's not like GMail potential is not already known after all of these
years of running it. So, how much do they spend on it and how much
does it contribute to the bottom line?
The potential of GAE that nobody is mentioning is that at a
comparatively reasonable cost (when compare to say GMail) it
So if it is so easy to scale up and out with these other solutions, why are
you still here?
Why did you even start with appengine?
What value you do you see in appengine vs these other IAAS platforms?
I really would like to know. You seem to only ever have negative comments
about appengine
i never said it should contribute more to the bottom line, and there is no
evidence to suggest it does.
All of this is just supposition on your part. Do you any evidence to back
up your claims.
Enough said by me on this now.
See ya
T
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I think you are definitely the target users of GAE, having money to spend
without caring the price. (its cheap compared to the revenue i earn from *
elsewhere*)
You raised some good points of GAE though, but my point is still the price
doesnt worth it. You can host the same tiny site on heroku
I started on GAE because of the same reason of you (PAAS without all the
managing stuff). Why I see GAE negatively now is that the price is over
expensive and the pricing model is wrong (or at least not like when I
started using it). Isn't that obvious? And there are no conflict between
the
We are in the same situation. How’s everyone’s progress?
We’re planning to migrate to AWS but we have quite a bit of data to move
like you guys. We’re trying to minimize service disruption and keeping our
site online while making the move. Here’s our scheme (would love to hear
suggestions
Like many, I'm deeply disappointed that Google went ahead with the
extortionate price increases, but instead of complaining about it
(because it seems to be falling on deaf ears) I'm trying to come up
with a workable solution to decrease costs.
I have a couple of apps that see an average amount
Seeing how scheduler has some problems and everyone's bill depends on
how well it does its job, I think it would be fair and would do a
great deal to make new costs more transparent if you open-sourced the
scheduler. Ideally, one would be able to override scheduler logic for
their application, but
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/4ce6349f416c57cd/475206448da9c32d?lnk=gstq=egor83#475206448da9c32d
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 02:21, egor83 egor.ryab...@gmail.com wrote:
My GAE application fetches a web page, and it works fine when I run it
on a development
I have an app that has instances page looking like this:
http://i.imgur.com/YROrD.png
It's a very small app with billing disabled. It will not work within free
quota after the pricing change simply because the scheduler is no good.
I think one way to fix this would be to open-source the
I can host on AWS without costing a buck for the first year with a micro
instance.
Second year it will cost.
Also I need to keep ubuntu patched, my ebs volume clean (clean out logs).
etc
AWS is not immune to outages (neither is appengine)
And heroku, well lets say I am a python person
I made a very similar request back in June -- there was zero reaction from
Google.
My suggestion is a little different -- provide a separate slider for
maximum latency for task queue requests.
-Sergey
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Hi,
I have an application metasearchprodenv.appspot.com which uses java mail
service.
I want to create an email address with this domain name and use this address
as a sender mail for the application.
I could not find any way to create email address and link this to this
account.
Anybody can
So when we deploy a new version, let's assume there was one instance
running, it gets shut down, a new one is then started, how many
instance-hours are consumed that hour?
Another option, the version deployed has a different name. The default
version is switched to that new version and the
Hi Raymond,
Lets look at some real numbers rather than broad statements.
In fact in the second year an AWS micro instance is charged at 0.02 per hour
So
356 * (24 * 0.02)
170.88
a reserved instance is
356 * (24 * 0.007) + 56
115.808
vs appengine with a single instance around $30 per
Here's another approach, which seems a lot more powerful than either of the
things we suggested:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5775
On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:05 AM, Sergey Schetinin wrote:
I made a very similar request back in June -- there was zero reaction from
Well,.. I intentionally tried to make a suggestion that requires as little
deviation from the existing plan as possible. I have no faith in GAE team
making anything but baby steps towards the community -- that request in the
linked ticket is way too ambitious.
-Sergey
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Hi Tim,
I'm curious to know why the prices will be half after you move to HR.
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Raymond,
Lets look at some real numbers rather than broad statements.
In fact in the second year an AWS micro instance is charged at 0.02
Thanx for this interesting post, Tim.
I still think GAE is a viable solution for some low traffic web sites.
I managed a dedicated server for 3 years and it was really painful and very
time consuming.
I'll try to stick to GAE for now even if my bill increases a bit (I was
already paying for
Let's give the GAE team some credit, and assume that they can discern the
short-term-fix issues from the long-term-solution issues.
I starred this new idea, because, in the long term, it would be a really
amazing toolset to have for my enterprise apps (not my free app, where all I
want to do
Raymond
Unfortunately I don't see a lot of postings detailing what the real
alternatives to appengine are, what
certain size traffic sites and data sets would actually cost to run on these
alternatives.
May be you could provide a bit of an over view of your apps design, what its
costing you,
What do you mean with the limited database functionality. We are developing
a large app with a lot of functions and so far no problems. Except that you
have to reprogram your relational database mindset. (this sounds very geeky)
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Hi Gubbi
I feel I can halve them because feel a lot more comfortable if there are no
instances hanging around and have them start on demand
on HR. M/S startup has always proven to be problematic.
I have a test instance that I check every so often on HR and it has yet to
fail to startup once
I'm not leaving GAE, but in the comments on a RWW article, I saw that the
AppScale folks ( http://appscale.cs.ucsb.edu/ ) seem to be trolling for
customers. (I mean trolling in the fishing sense, no the usenet sense.)
I'm sure those people must be on these mailing lists. Perhaps one of them
Why do we keep seeing these comments Yikes, maybe Google now has too few
large customers and that they now on purpose have chosen to kill GAE
Where is the evidence that allows you to draw that conclusion?
or are you actually trying to start or perpetuate an internet meme and hope
it comes true
Things like only one inequality match (such as less than or greater than)
allowed in queries and no LIKE operator. The new full text search API may
solve some of that.
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I found this article:
http://blog.labslice.com/2010/12/2010-cloud-computing-winner.html
It shows that GAE has a very tiny market share. Managers at Google may
calculate that the market share for GAE will remain too low for them to
invest much further in the product. I certainly hope my
Didn't you read the going out of preview notice from google.
They garuntee to provide the service for 3 years. This gives organisations
piece of mind.
And you are drawing the conclusion from that report which is very vague,
that google plan to kill gae. What have you been smoking ?
Its
Hi
More than a few people have said in the groups lately that appengine is
unsuitable for entry level apps due to the new pricing schedule.
I am not so sure, but there hasn't been any real information about the
alternatives, so I thought I would start to collate some numbers
So to that end I
Woo...Tim, your talk is getting annoying. What have you been smoking ?? I
think it's a question you should ask yourself.
How about come back to the discussion after you have real usage on appengine? I
mean, not hosting a site that get hundreds of pageview a DAY. Instead make a
popular web
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote:
Didn't you read the going out of preview notice from google.
They garuntee to provide the service for 3 years.
They have ALWAYS provided this guarantee. See section 10 of the Terms
of Service you agreed to:
There is a European provider called OVH. They currently host about
100k dedicated server and also offer virtual instances. The cheapest
starts at 0.0119 € / Hour and includes 256MB Ram, 8Ghz, 5GB storage
and unmetered Mbps connection: 8,8536€/month.
On Sep 4, 3:26 pm, Tim Hoffman
There is a European provider called OVH. They currently host about
100k dedicated servers and also offer virtual instances. The cheapest
starts at 0.0119 € / Hour and includes 256MB Ram, 8Ghz, 5GB storage
and unmetered 100 Mbps connection: 8,8536€/month.
I think they should be in your table.
On
Hi Raymond
This particular discussion was focused on small apps. Not big apps. Note
the subject GAE pricing is not suited for smaller apps
I have been and am involved with large apps. Thats a whole different
discussion. And I have repeatedly stated I am not talking about pricing at
that
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 8:49 AM, zdravko email.workbe...@gmail.com wrote:
Or even better, what if GAE had a mechanism by which the apps could
announce when they have something new to be crawled?
If only...
http://www.sitemaps.org/
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+1 from me on that score Brandon.
T
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I don't buy the $30 - $40 / month figure for GAE. With just a tiny bit of
tuning, my single-threaded M/S app is now running on just one instance,
handling both periodic robots (that keep the instance from dying; this is
unavoidable in my application), and a regular user workload:
You can
Also: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_vserver/vq7
That's 9.20 USD for those of us who don't need to pay VAT.
http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_vserver/vq12 - this one is 15 USD
w/o VAT.
http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_vserver/vq19 - 23 USD
-Sergey
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Hi Joshua
Thanks for your input I feel I can get my small instances down to the
$9-$15 per month territory too.
But I wanted to not have to argue that point too much here ;-)
Anyone running a small instance that is well optimised should have a good
handle on what it will cost them.
So lets
Joshua is correct with some tuning you can improve your instance count
quite well. I have set Max Idle Instances to 2 and kept Min Pending
latency at auto and I am seeing some good results.
However, I still think there is needed some competition here in the US
market. Traffic is way cheaper in
Can you post the URL that you are trying to fetch from?
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Amazingly enough AWS still prices their bandwidth from EU datacenter
at $0.120 per GB
On 4 September 2011 17:33, Philip philip.mates...@driggle.com wrote:
Joshua is correct with some tuning you can improve your instance count
quite well. I have set Max Idle Instances to 2 and kept Min Pending
Here's the next post, showing the results of just changing the
performance sliders. Again, hard data. graphs, all the good stuff.
http://point7.wordpress.com/2011/09/04/appengine-tuning-1/
On 3 September 2011 19:46, Emlyn emlynore...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I don't think I've posted here
Let me know if you would like to help collate this information, and I can
give you write permissions on this
spreadsheet.
Hopefully this is a useful excercise.
Also I need to look at what the minimum spec for a typhoonae or appscale
deployment would be, if someone wanted to move
off appengine
OT, but probably because if they made it much cheaper, it would be
huge lure for US customers (not worried about latency) to use the EU
data center.
But even for EU bound traffic, they probably route it to US
datacenters first then route it via internal networks to the EU.
Mainly for quality of
AWS doesn't route EU traffic via US, that would be nuts. And the EU
customers would be outraged too.
On 4 September 2011 17:53, Barry Hunter barrybhun...@gmail.com wrote:
OT, but probably because if they made it much cheaper, it would be
huge lure for US customers (not worried about latency) to
@Zutesmog
Why did you left IRC? I think its better if I send you my remarks to
the list there instead in the groups ;-)
Microsoft: The price is only correct for September. In October there
will be a 20% price cut for the smallest instance. Input bandwidth is
free and outgoing bandwidth depends on
My monkeypatching solution (see my recent post in the -python group), which
Guido says I shouldn't use, but which is just so darned pretty I can't help it,
has gotten me through the first challenge of switching to HR, which is dealing
with google search results containing keys into my old app's
Any one can suggest ...
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Deepak Singh deepaksingh...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
I have an application metasearchprodenv.appspot.com which uses java mail
service.
I want to create an email address with this domain name and use this
address as a sender mail for the
I wanted to put what another poster wrote in another thread because it is so
dead-on. Google coming out with all these rationales and exclamation marks!
behind all their our premium services are not cheap! means nothing. That's
not how you advertised it initially. You said we wouldn't have to
I wrote about the 3 years in another thread. My speculation is that this is
a slow kill, because they can't make the kill obvious since media then would
report a lot about how Google has failed with yet another product, this time
in the important cloud computing space. And many existing
*What we tried was a platform where I dont have to worry about Instances
and tuning the scheduler for costs.* -- very interesting quote
That's exactly what I have been writing in other threads. Google should work
on the instances and the scheduler under the hood, and not use it to rip off
the
+1
Also, the ability to make a spider bot wait, without spawning a new
task. Although that may hurt search engine placement.
It is a conflict of interest for google to charge for instances, and
then send their bots around to run up your costs.
Google should be able to add some logic to check
Thanks
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Regarding available memory, memcache is free in GAE.
On Sep 4, 4:26 pm, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
More than a few people have said in the groups lately that appengine is
unsuitable for entry level apps due to the new pricing schedule.
I am not so sure, but there hasn't been
2 weeks? Ridiculous time tables?
Dude, the new pricing was announced in the beginning of May. You can
only blame yourself for waiting 4 months with the optimization.
On Sep 4, 7:22 pm, John Wheeler j...@highvolumeseller.com wrote:
I wanted to put what another poster wrote in another thread
The datastore does not delete things right away. It marks them as delete and
waits for a compaction to actually remove the data. If a lot of data is
deleted at the start of a query, the datastore will have to skip all the
deleted rows until it finds the first real entity. This is what is causing
To be fair we don't know yet what the actual cost will be for frontend
instances, but if the cost for the frontend instances becomes higher than
100% of the total cost of the other quotas, then I would start worrying.
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The only problem I see is that you won't be able to get existing data with
'updated=False', the old data won't be indexed. You'll need to just get
everything and maybe skip the stuff you have already pushed. Otherwise
sounds like the idea might work.
On Sep 4, 2011 6:08 AM, Natalie
Per app.
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Thanks
If I get 50 credit and disable billing, so i can enable it few months
from now, will i still keep 50$ credit?
On Sep 4, 2:32 pm, Rohan Chandiramani masterxr...@gmail.com wrote:
Per app.
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Personally I don't think it is a slow kill. I think cloud computing is a key
business opportunity for Google and that their GAE product is second to
none. The Google guys just got the pricing wrong. In fact, if they priced
right and added few languages like PHP and Ruby and add a SQL database
Yes, could be that Google will keep investing in GAE, because it could have
great future potential. Cloud computing WILL become huge, no doubt about
that. Google making a strong investment in GAE would be really good. I love
the simplicity and scalability of GAE. Maybe the new pricing is
Hey Alfred,
thanks for the reply. I've got a couple more questions regarding the
compaction, I hope you can answer a few:
- When do those compaction events happen?
- What is their frequency?
- How can I tell if one happened?
Thanks!
Volker
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Since running a single B1 backend, the CPU usage of our instance has
increased by an order of magnitude. Nothing else has changed.
So my question is:
In addition to the explicit backend cost, does the backend cpu usage count
towards the CPU Time resource on the front page? Or is this indirect
If we have changed our setting should we see the $50 in the current
balance?
I tried to claim mine for my three apps a few days ago but see no
change.
neptunespride
blightoftheimmortals
jupitersfolly
I did see somebody else post about this over the weekend but I cant
find that thread (its a
I clear the cache whenever the list of boards changes in some way
How about update the cache at that point instead of clearing it?
Need be you could even generate the HTML for the cache update with a
URLFetch to your UI handler where you include the added/changed board
key(s) as parameters, so
i changed billing and after few minutes could see 50 credit for each
app
On Sep 4, 5:44 pm, jay kyburz@gmail.com wrote:
If we have changed our setting should we see the $50 in the current
balance?
I tried to claim mine for my three apps a few days ago but see no
change.
neptunespride
I'm trying optimize our application to the max, so far so good, but...
It appears that the threadpool of the Java instance is limited to 18, for
which ~10 are used to handle requests.
Our average latency is 100ms. 1 minute / 100ms = 600 requests, x10 threads,
so a single instance should be
how much memory can you use is not clear. and it is not totally free.
and installing a memache in a ec2 instance needs less than 5 minutes
and will run faster.
On Sep 5, 1:34 am, Strom xxst...@gmail.com wrote:
Regarding available memory, memcache is free in GAE.
On Sep 4, 4:26 pm, Tim Hoffman
Hi Strom
Yep, though accessing it counts in rpc quotas.
I tried to keep the stack really small ;-)
Honestly you can't compare any VPS with appengine feature wise unless you
build some really big
stack yourself and you still don't get the seemless scaling. But for really
small apps the scaling
I haven't get the credits yet.
I changed the balance 2 days ago.
On Sep 5, 6:08 am, Andrei gml...@gmail.com wrote:
i changed billing and after few minutes could see 50 credit for each
app
On Sep 4, 5:44 pm, jay kyburz@gmail.com wrote:
If we have changed our setting should we see
Not all traffic, only traffic to/from US origin.
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Sergey Schetinin mal...@gmail.com wrote:
AWS doesn't route EU traffic via US, that would be nuts. And the EU
customers would be outraged too.
On 4 September 2011 17:53, Barry Hunter barrybhun...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Joshua,
Can you not do a consistent get for the data when you have a cache miss, to
ensure you're fetching the latest copy, and cache that?
Looking at how NDB does its caching may be instructive here.
-Nick Johnson
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 1:16 AM, Joshua Smith joshuaesm...@charter.netwrote:
Another one has been posted here, combined, it would work perfectly.
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5755
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On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Volker Schönefeld
volker.schoenef...@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Alfred,
thanks for the reply. I've got a couple more questions regarding the
compaction, I hope you can answer a few:
- When do those compaction events happen?
The process that controls the
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