Re: [Histonet] IHC validation

Just another note: You can order unstained tissue microarrays with the prerequisite number of cases, both positive and negative, and stain your validation all on one slide. I've done this for years and for 3 different validations of entire IHC platform changes, ranging from 40 to over 100

Re: [Histonet] Synoptic Reports

Hi Allison - We couldn't afford the program offered by our LIS vendor, but since they are published annually, we have a fabulous transcriptionist that updates and reformats all of ours every year. She saves them as a "quick text" in the LIS. They are accessible to all who are

Re: [Histonet] Identification of bacteria on an acrylic lens prosthesis

I'm certified in EM. My suggestion would be to use SEM as opposed to TEM. The scanning electron microscope (SEM) can also be useful to reveal morphological features of isolated organisms as well as for diagnosis. There are numerous articles citing this technique. I believe the UC Berkley has

Re: [Histonet] Tissue Processor

After 40 years of using primarily Miles/Tissue Tek, we recently purchased 2 Leica ASP 6025. With the exception of a small glitch with faulty sensors, and a learning curve to get used to them, I would highly recommend them. We had replaced an ancient K series(with the magnet) and a VIP 5. The

Re: [Histonet] Everyone is a critic

I wholehearted agree with Linda. Constructive criticism is one thing. Picking apart the book, such as the title, is petty (and ignores the fact that "Hack" is also defined as: a strategy or technique for managing one's time or activities more efficiently; also to "cope"). Also, the criticism

Re: [Histonet] CAP checklist ANP.11680 Cross Contamination

In response to the request to post the new phase II CAP requirement on cross contamination : **NEW** 08/21/2017 ANP.11680 Cross Contamination Phase II There is a written procedure to prevent cross-contamination of specimens during grossing. NOTE: At a minimum, cleaning (e.g.

Re: [Histonet] Cross Contamination CAP policy

Hi Roy! The "Germinator 500" Sounds like something from Phineas and Ferb. Hahaha. Anyway - The mandate from CAP is designed to clean the instruments, not sterilize them. If the instruments aren't cleaned before stuffing them into a 250'C trough of glass beads (the Germinator), you will

[Histonet] Histology Hacks - the book

I just wanted to share a quick review of the new book "Histology Hacks", by Michael Backhus. It is the kind of book that brings together all of the little tidbits that a tech picks up along a lifetime of working and networking with others. It is well organized and the information is presented

Re: [Histonet] cutting test

Please be sure to clear any use of a "cutting test" during the interview process with your institution's legal department. If an interviewee should cut themselves, the liability could be steep. If you have a clearly defined minimum cutting speed/quality, a better solution would be to hire the

Re: [Histonet] Prostate Needle Biopsies

We cut levels x2 with no unstained. We've never had a problem going back to a block for additional recuts or specials. We date all our precut IHC slides (patient or control) with an expiration date of 6 weeks. Slides cut for histochemistry stains seem to have no expiration. Hope this helps.

Re: [Histonet] Sound monitoring

We contract with an outside company to come in and perform a sound monitor once a year in each room of the lab Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 Care, Comfort, and

Re: [Histonet] Her 2 Control

Hey Scott - Our interpretation of CAP requirements for IHC Controls is the same as yours. Our Her2 control is a microarray with 3+ case and a piece of normal skin to serve as our negative tissue control. If you have normal breast tissue adjacent to your tumor control, that can also serve as a

Re: [Histonet] Mounting media

Although we've used several brands with good success, our most consistent performer has been the Sakura Tissue Tek Glas Mounting Media #6419. When coverslipping, either automated or manual, the secret to avoiding air bubble during storage is to insure that the correct amount of media is

Re: [Histonet] Division of Path cases

We give the worklist to the chief Pathologist and let him make the assignments on a daily basis. They are usually divided up by complexity. In the absence of the Chief Path, then I make the assignments. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital

Re: [Histonet] Elastic Stain

We love the Aldehyde Fuchsin with a fast-green counterstain. Once the initial working stain is made up, it is a fast and easy stain to perform, not to mention just pretty - purple fibers against a green background. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer

Re: [Histonet] Supervising a histologist

I don't think it sounds like a strange question at all, but the quick answer is yes, it is perfectly legal and acceptable for an OJT Lab Assistant to be temporarily assigned to supervise an HTL. As long as it does not break any local/state requirements for licensure, or in the case of a

Re: [Histonet] pertinent to the blog

Actually, the verification of instrument performance is a CAP All Common Checklist Requirement and should already be a part of laboratory procedure. COM.30550 Instrument/Equipment Performance Verification Phase II The performance of all instruments and equipment is verified prior to

Re: [Histonet] Stain Validations

Just use a microarray. They can be purchased in all sorts of varieties with hundreds of cases on one slide. I use and recommend U S Biomax Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax:

Re: [Histonet] Send-outs, cassette printers, holding cassettes, and cassette clamps

1. Send-Outs (Cristi Rigazio) Our TAT for send-outs is 1 working day (M-F). The office staff here use the "Slide/block Send Out" function in CoPath to track all material moving in and out of Anatomic Pathology and it really speed up retrieval of case material 3. Cassette printers -

Re: [Histonet] IF vs IHC another reason

Another reason that IHC is used instead of IF is with IHC, one preserves the ability to see tissue/cell morphology through Light Microscopy at the same time as the visual IHC label. Morphology is difficult to see with IF, with the exception of the fluorescein labeled area. Terri L. Braud,

Re: [Histonet] patient taking tissue

Our hospital has a policy against releasing soft tissue to anyone except a funeral home. Realizing that some religions require one to be buried with all their body parts, release to a funeral home meets those requirements without someone finding human remains years down the road, with no

Re: [Histonet] Stainer vs coverslipper

Such a shame that you have to choose. But, that said, a coverslipper. Hands down. If nothing else, due to safety and exposure reasons alone. H and E stains can be unstained and restained, easily corrected, and easily accomplished in batches and the racks have HANDLES. But with

Re: [Histonet] disposable grossing pad

I know many, including staff here, that prefer to use "chux". They are very cheap, come in various sizes and adsorption levels, latex-free, with a highly absorbent core and soft, quick-drying coverstock so you don't get lint in your specimens. Use your favorite search engine to look them up.

[Histonet] out with the old

We have just replaced our 2 old tissue processors and have one very old (1989) VIP3000 floor model, the one with the magnets. It is in working condition, but will not hold the battery charge for the backup battery. We have been using it with a UPS, for 6 runs every week. If anyone is

Re: [Histonet] Handstaining IHC for MITC

Coming from an ancient histology tech who did IHC back in the dark ages, before automation, hand staining is a piece of cake. A couple of hints: Use a "pap" pen to circle your tissue on the slide to form a barrier to keep your reagents puddled in a concentrated spot and to minimize reagent use.

Re: [Histonet] Release of patient tissue

Our policy is to not release any wet tissue except by subpoena, except for purposes of burial, and then only released to a funeral director. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax:

Re: [Histonet] Grad Student Problem

My response: My first question is what temperature are the blocks that are too brittle? And at what temperature are you trying to cut? Blocks stored in cryofreezers at -70o C or less are far too cold to cut without brittleness. My suggestion would be to pull the blocks and put them into the

[Histonet] Dispensing formalin

For those of you working in smaller hospital Histology labs (not staffed 24/7) - How does your OR/Lab handle getting specimens into fixative? We currently use small/med prefilled containers for smaller specimens. Does the OR dispense formalin into larger containers? Do you refrigerate unfixed

Re: [Histonet] RTU antibodies with 1+ year expiration date

Just a word to the wise: Although I certainly appreciate the well-referenced, sound science behind Tony Henwood's advice, as he also pointed out, if your lab is CAP or CLIA inspected, the regulations are quite specific that expired reagents cannot be used for patient work. I agree that it is

Re: [Histonet] Uneven ER/PR

My first 2 items to check whenever I have uneven IHC staining are (1) Inadequate deparaffinization, (2) bad lot of charged slides - yes this can cause terribly streaky or spotty staining, and since you are using the Bond, perhaps there was an issue with coverplate placements. Just things to

Re: [Histonet] IHC Personel

This should help...the IHC "test" is the pathologists' INTERPRETATION of IHC stain. The stain procedure, validation of protocols and controls, and lot to lot validation must be signed off by a pathologist. Any tech that has demonstrated competency in performing the procedure, can perform IHC

Re: [Histonet] Her2 Reflex

Re: Her2 by IHC We reflex 1+ to FISH, too Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 ___ Histonet mailing list

Re: [Histonet] cold ischemic time

Hi Cristi - We have a large breast practice and we worked with the surgeons and surgical staff to include on the requisition: "Collect time" "Time in formalin" Then at gross, the PA or pathologist grossing calculates "Cold Ischemic Time" and "Duration of Fixation" All breast specimens are

Re: [Histonet] Bone saw

We use an awesome little band saw made by IMEB, Inc. It has a small foot print, 4 blade types and added accessories for a super lab bone cutting station, and best of all, very inexpensive. It can zip through the densest of bone, or the most delicate. It can be set up as a water cooled station

[Histonet] Tissue Processor question

Hi fellow Histonetters- I'm looking for any feedback from working labs using Thermo's Excelsior Processor. If you can help, can you please also include the age and usage on your instrument? Thanks, Terri Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital

Re: [Histonet] Formalin in physician offices

We provide formalin training and small volume spill kits and neutralizing wipes for all physician offices owned by our health care system. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax:

Re: [Histonet] Histonet Digest, Vol 155, Issue 2

I just instruct the service personnel to include a single statement on the service report that the instrument has been tested and is functioning properly following service. Worked for the last inspection. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital

Re: [Histonet] water for stainers

Our Prisma is hooked up to tap water. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 3. Water for H Stainers? (P Sicurello) 4. Re: Water for H Stainers? (Elizabeth

Re: [Histonet] Low Volume IHC

Hi Gareth! BioCare has a wonderful instrument, the Oncor, that has a 30 slide max, with full onboard antigen retrieval. Super simple to operate. We were a Beta site to test and all the techs really liked it. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer

Re: [Histonet] Movat's pentachrome

Just wondering why you are compelled to make all the reagents in house for the Movat's stain. I have used the kit k042 from Poly Scientic with fabulous results (and no, I have no gain from recommending them). Their solutions are wonderfully labeled and can be replenished individually, or by

Re: [Histonet] ER/PR benchmarks

The ER/PR benchmarks are those published in the notes section of the checklist question. We use the lowest numbers of the ranges. We track , patient age, cancer type, tumor grade, and positive or negative results, then just run the numbers. We also add in some extras, such as cases positive

[Histonet] It's getting cold in here....

If you've not been made aware before now, be warned. The Department of Veterans affairs (DVA) has proposed a rule that would authorize any Advanced Practice Registered Nurse (APRN) to not only order and interpret lab tests, but also to perform, supervise, and direct lab testing. The rule

Re: [Histonet] cleaning molds

We used to put them in a large stainless steel basin, with a little bit of Alconox brand detergent. Fill the basin with hot water and bring to a boil on a hotplate. Turn it off, let the water cool for a couple of hours and all the paraffin would rise to the top and solidify. Just pick the

Re: [Histonet] Certification

Respectfully, a public forum is no place to discuss personnel issues on such a personal level. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 4. Certification (Adesupo,

Re: [Histonet] Testicular biopsies

I must be missing the obvious. Why can one no longer use Bouins? We still use Bouins. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) 3. Testicular biopsy for infertility (Cartun, Richard) Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:41:47 + From: "Cartun, Richard" What are people

Re: [Histonet] HT Certification

Wow, you sure picked a doozy of a subject. Unless you work in a state that has specific licensure requirements, there really is nothing to prevent a non-certified Histology tech from doing the same duties as a certified tech In my opinion, it's more a matter of skill sets, and as we all know,

Re: [Histonet] Cytology specimens

We used to have problems with fluids/orders, but what we put in place seems to be working. 1. All fluids are received by central processing. If a fluid has no orders, then central processing calls to have the orders put in. Cytology does not accept fluids without orders. We also encourage

Re: [Histonet] Formaldehyde Education

Annual Formaldehyde safety education should be part of your on-boarding process, as well as annual education, per OSHA Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 4.

Re: [Histonet] stored unstained sections

Cut slides stored at room temp seem to last quite a long time for routine stains, however, cut slides do demonstrate a loss of antigenicity for IHC staining, depending on the antibody. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike

Re: [Histonet] Dirty HP Antibody

We had the same issue a few years ago with the Ventana HP antibody. Then we tried the antibody from Zymed and it was so much better. Now we use BioCare's antibody, and it is very clean. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon

Re: [Histonet] vibrations

With experience and certification in both, I think that problems from ambient vibrations are much less severe in Histology than EM. There are special vibration dampening worktables, often used for EM, that would eliminate the problem for cutting stations, or any other sensitive equipment, and

Re: [Histonet] Histo/Cyto staining

We run both stains on our Sakura Prisma, but they share no common reagents except for the final Xylene unload station. We do use the combination CytoKwik stain, which combines the OG6 and EA50 steps, to reduce the number of steps in our Cytology stain procedure. We only run non-gyn, too. It

Re: [Histonet] Slide Printer

We've used Leica for 8 years and everyone here loves it. We have it loaded with Leica brand plus slide, Leica regular clipped corner slides, and Thin Prep Slides from Cytologic. It was easily interfaced with CoPath, seldom jams, and we average about 1 unexpected service call per year in

Re: [Histonet] Wrist Pain

This is an repetitive stress injury and is not to be trifled with. I know that I have a tech that occasionally uses a wrist brace to embed, but also to sleep with at night. I strongly recommend using ergonomic friendly embedding forceps available from selected Histology supply companies.

Re: [Histonet] Passing the HTL

BIG Congratulations! To Patrick Lewis on passing your HTL Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 7. I did it I am now a certified HTL (Lewis, Patrick) Message: 7 Date:

Re: [Histonet] Specimen submission pads

We, too, had the same problem. The GI rooms were cutting telfa pads so they would fit in the formalin containers, and the pads were falling apart. We finally asked that they just put the specimens directly into the formalin. That way we can decide in the gross room, the best way to submit the

Re: [Histonet] GI biopsies

We cut 3 levels, 40 microns apart, all mounted on the same slide Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 ___ Histonet

Re: [Histonet] Cryostat with UV disinfection

For those of you that are CAP accredited, and use a cryostat with UV disinfection, how do you get around the CAP requirement listed below? We were told the UV disinfection did not replace wiping down with a tuberculocidal disinfectant at room temp. Do you have an approved tuberculocidal

Re: [Histonet] Skin billing

Our institution follows the CPT coding and associated billing, just as you explained. For those surgeries done within our facilities, there is a specific list of specimens which must be submitted. This was agreed upon by med staff and is listed in the bylaws, in response to the following CAP

Re: [Histonet] Processing cytology and cell block protocols

We are a similar sized hospital with an 8,000/yr Surgical load of mixed large and small cases. We process 1000 Non-gyn Cytology cases, assist with FNA collection in Interventional Radiology. We also assist with about 130 bone marrow collections, including smears and processing. There is

[Histonet] PA help sought

Our lab is seeking an Pathology Assistant for an immediate temporary position for all gross responsibilities. The position will be approximately 10-12 weeks. We are a medium sized hospital in the NE suburbs of Philadelphia. We have a friendly technical and medical staff of 2.5 pathologists

Re: [Histonet] Shrinkage

LOL...Shrinkage...heh, heh. But seriously, there should be little to no gross shrinkage from formalin fixation and if the specimen is properly fixed, then there should be very little gross shrinkage as it is dehydrated. That is supposed to be the point! If someone is getting 30% shrinkage,

Re: [Histonet] Credentials

There is no CAP requirement that a person has to be certified or qualified in any way to perform Histology or Histology Assistant duties. As long as you can document their proven competency, they are good to perform any procedure. The only exception in the Histology lab, is if that tech is

Re: [Histonet] slide, cassette printers

We LOVE our Leica printers. IPS and IPC. We've been running them for over 8 years with few problems and little down time. We recently interfaced them to CoPath and it went very quickly and smooth. Now we are loving them more than ever. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor

Re: [Histonet] PAP stain troubleshooting

Hi Charles - Not to worry. Many of us Histo folks don't have a Cytologist to help. Beth is spot on in her advice. I just wanted to add Orange G should appear yellow to orange; 15 sec to 1 minute is the usual range of staining times. EA is often problematic because of fundamental limitations

Re: [Histonet] best glass coverslipper

I've had experience with several glass coverslippers over the years. While I've not tried the newest/latest/greatest of other brands, I've been running the Sakura Glas coverslipper for 8 years without a hitch. It has been very dependable, with little downtime, and extremely easy maintenance.

Re: [Histonet] Consult Requests

If a patient or an outside hospital/doctor requests a consult, we encourage patients to pick up their slides at the same time as they pick up radiology discs, medical records, etc. If we need to fedex slides/reports to another institution we ask the receiving facility for their Fed-Ex number.

Re: [Histonet] better than a price gun

UAL (United Ad Label) has a label guns, similar to the old paper labeler which puts wonderful labels, your choice of rec'vd date, date open, date exp...or any combination of the 3. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike

Re: [Histonet] autostainer for GMS

Just my 2cents. I've had good experiences with the Artisan, both before and after it was purchased by Dako. It's very user friendly and very reliable. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph:

Re: [Histonet] Slide Printer Back-up

Our policy calls for handwriting slides, then applying printed labels at the completion of the stain/coverslip. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 Today's Topics:

Re: [Histonet] Aquous Mounting Media

Have you tried Sigma's ImmunoHistoMount? It was what replaced Crystal Mount which used to be my favorite. Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer Hospital 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 ph: 215-938-3689 fax: 215-938-3874 **

[Histonet] test cost

Do these steps in order: Take the total cost of your supplies + total hours salary average, for set period (usually use 6 months), and then divide by the number of blocks for a cost per block (ie. 0.80/block) Do the same for slides to arrive at a cost per slide. (ie. 1.25/stained slide)

Re: [Histonet] Gross Room QC

All of our QC sheets around the department are on obnoxiously colored fluorescent orange clipboards. I use 3M Command hooks to hang the clipboards near or on the instrument or area. I use a single clear plastic page protector clipped on top of the paper to protect them from splashes, etc.

Re: [Histonet] mystery dye

Dear Baffled - Could there possible contamination from other specimens that are being processed at the same time? For example, skins or other tissues with inked margins? Just thinking out loud. Pondering, Terri Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Laboratory Holy Redeemer

Re: [Histonet] BMSS Elastic

Just a note: The results of the stain are supposed to be elastic fibers: Blue-black to black. If you stain something with a bluish tint, then counterstain over it with Van Gieson's (red)... Well, red and blue make purple. Even the picture that accompanies the kit in the catalogue shows the

Re: [Histonet] Non-Gyn contamination

Hi Nancy - Here is what our lab does. All preps (slides)are fixed in individual containers before being batch stained. We stain smears separately from FNAs, and smears and FNAs, separately by case. All fixed thin preps are stained together. With smears or FNAs, we insert a clean slide (labeled

Re: [Histonet] Frozen Section WL and Billing

We set up our system this way - Example: A specimen for frozen is sent. You cut 2 blocks of frozen tissue, 2 levels ea. The PA/Pathologist submits 3 additional blocks for a total of 5 blocks on the specimen (1-2 are the previously frozen, 3-5 additional tissue) to be cut at one level each. 1.

Re: [Histonet] Frozen Section WL and Billing

, 2015 3:24 PM To: Terri Braud; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Cc: Cassandra P. Davis Subject: RE: Frozen Section WL and Billing Aren't fs CPT codes 88331 and 88332? From: Terri Braud via Histonet [histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Sent: Friday, August 28

Re: [Histonet] Labeling Slides

Hi Laura - We print all of our slides using the Leica printers. Even batch cut control slides are pre-printed. The only time we write on the slides is if we cut patient tissue applied to the control slide for IHC staining. Then we will add the Block ID and patient name by hand to the control

Re: [Histonet] Weekend IHC

Med size hosp lab - not here Terri L. Braud, HT(ASCP) Anatomic Pathology Supervisor Holy Redeemer Hospital Laboratory 1648 Huntingdon Pike Meadowbrook, PA 19046 Ph: 215-938-3676 Fax: 215-938-3874 2. IHC Weekend Coverage (Cartun, Richard) 3. Re: IHC Weekend Coverage (Victoria Baker)

Re: [Histonet] Histonet Digest, Vol 141, Issue 5

For us, unexpected findings are noted in the report as such. The pathologist calls and personally notifies the surgeon. The date/time and person called is noted in the report. Example: NOTE: Unexpected findings of discussed with Dr on 7/31/2015, 1115. Hope this helps. Terri

Re: [Histonet] HE stainers and LCS

HE Stainer - I love our Prisma and Glas coverslipper. Such a workhorse. Easy maintenance. Almost never any downtime. LCS - Liquid coverslip is a type of oil, and should rinse easily in your alcohols during run down. If you are seeing water, perhaps it is held in place with your slide

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