; Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:03 AM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
> I completely agree with the player being automatically banned for
> cheating in a public secured server, however this was no
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Sanderson
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:03 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
I completely agree with t
I completely agree with the player being automatically banned for
cheating in a public secured server, however this was not the case.
Regardless if the player was hacking or not, there should have been
zero discussion ingame about the matter, especially from an Employee
who clearly did something to
Maybe this isn't the whole truth in this matter. All we know maybe VAC
already had signature from the player (and if it wasn't a sourcemod) and
the ban was just speeded up to be more instant.
In any case, in such clear cases as speedhacks, i don't mind if the
jackasses get banned asap for once.
If they would simply prevent people from joining servers with client side
plugins loaded, people would simply code a client side plugin which bypass
this. The better way is just to remove the possibility of loading client
side plugins at all.
2010/5/12 Kigen
> What Kyle is trying to point out is
What Kyle is trying to point out is that the problem shouldn't even
exist in the first place. VALVe should be preventing people from
joining servers while plugins are loaded via the VSP interface.
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Nicholas Hastings wrote:
> I totally disagree. If they were using
I totally disagree. If they were using it to cheat then it doesn't
matter in the least whether or not they were expecting to get VACbanned
or not, nor how the ban came about. That guy even admitted he was speed
hacking with it. One less idiot plaguing servers.
On 5/12/2010 3:51 PM, Kyle Sanders
Both http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=126487 and
http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=935780 are interesting
reads.
The player was manually VAC banned by one "Al" or "Professor
Farnsworth" for running SourceMod as a client plugin. VAC is supposed
to be an automatic system, and no
With that logic, a sourcemod in players pc isn't a cheat but you can
override your own setting r_drawothermodels 2 and you see through walls
even if the cheats are off on the server. This is exactly the reason why
plugins in clients suck. Changing viewmodel isn't allowed in L4D2 by
default, as
Apologies for the double post (I'm not sure how that works on a mailing
list.
This plugin doesn't change sv_cheats, it is not a cheat and deserves no
special consideration. It will not be deleted either.
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 8:42 AM, AnAkIn . wrote:
> Now there is a client side L4D2 plugin t
Hello, thanks for posting this. Hopefully people realize it may be
considered a cheat since it can give them an unfair (albeit tiny) advantage.
Something to note: L4D2's sv_cheats cvar is a bit more tamper proof.
Also: The list might not want to continue discussion on this topic.
Speedhacks have
t; -Original Message-----
> > > > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Allan
> Button
> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 1:42 AM
> > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 se
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gunnett
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 12:14 AM
> > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server
is list.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Allan Button
> > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 1:42 AM
> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing lis
tore for iPhone.
>
> Allan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gunnett
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 12:14 AM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: R
: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
Make it a launch option of srcds to allow plugins on the server. Not a cvar.
And off by default.
Then, for people who are serious about client plugins, maybe a way to have
them signed by Valve. Think Apple App Store for iPhone.
Allan
...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gunnett
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 12:14 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
While you may not be removing all the cheaters by giving a
While you may not be removing all the cheaters by giving a cvar to disable
client side plugins, you will be preventing the people who are too stupid to
do some of the more complex cheats. Why make it easier to cheat? Learning
how to Lua script (Or script in sourcepawn) isn't all that hard, especial
So consider Valve does disable clientside plugins, what will change?
Absolutely nothing. All the cheaters will continue to use their cheats
that don't rely on clientside plugins. Everyone else will use a
network proxy, which can replication all the malicious exploits you're
worried about. With a ne
--- Scott Highland wrote:
Maybe you could explain why this whole list, and the company that runs it
should all agree to completely remove the ability to incorporate
modifications just because it would suit YOUR needs as an anti-cheat
function to thwart the .3% of TF2 players that are abusing it in
gt;>>>>>
> >>>>>> This issue is basically the equivalent to the material hacks that
> are
> >>>>>> possible to use anywhere on servers that have sv_pure set to 0
> still.
> >>>>>> It's not a big deal in the scope of thing
pe of things, and theres already ways of
>>>>>>> dealing with it. Now quit acting like this is Valve's fault and go back
>>>>>>> to blaming hackers and cheaters for your in-game shortcomings.
>>>>>>>
&
t;>>
>>>>>> Arg! wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt making a cvar would work as the plugins could simply override
>>>>>>> it as they do now.
>>&g
oubt making a cvar would work as the plugins could simply override
>>>>>> it as they do now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Saul Rennison<
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> saul.renni...@gmail.com
gt;> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cc2iscooL
>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:09 PM
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>>
>> I've never run mali
--Original Message-
> > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cc2iscooL
> > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:24 PM
> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Load
April 02, 2010 7:09 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
I've never run malicious plugins so I really don't know what's out there.
Here's a good website where you might find some more examples
PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
> In the instance where a player can leave a modded server he or she likes,
> it's not really that big of a deal. Now when you have people coming on to
6:24 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
In the instance where a player can leave a modded server he or she likes,
it's not really that big of a deal. Now when you have people coming on to
legitimate commun
heaters for your in-game shortcomings.
> >>>>
> >>>> Arg! wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I doubt making a cvar would work as the plugins could simply override
> >>>>> it as they do now.
> >>>>>
> >>>
ould work as the plugins could simply override
> >>>>> it as they do now.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Saul Rennison <
> >>>>>
> >> saul.renni...@gmail.com
> >>
> >>>&
; wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> If you aren't modifying game memory (i.e. hooking functions), then
>>>>>>
>> VAC
>>
>>>> won't
>>>>
>>>>>> mind.
>>>>>&g
- Saul.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 31 March 2010 16:00, Keeper wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> I don't know how VAC works, but if it's lo
r wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> I don't know how VAC works, but if it's loaded via a client side
> > plugin, I
> > >>> doubt VAC sees it as an "external" program altering the game's memory
> > >>> spa
;external" program altering the game's memory
> >>> space.
> >>> But not knowing how VAC works, there's no telling what they look for or
> how
> >>> they are detecting it.
> >>>
> >>> Keeper
> >>> -Original Mes
e game's memory
>>>> space.
>>>> But not knowing how VAC works, there's no telling what they look for or how
>>>> they are detecting it.
>>>>
>>>> Keeper
>>>>
t not knowing how VAC works, there's no telling what they look for or
> how
> >>> they are detecting it.
> >>>
> >>> Keeper
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Michael Krasnow [mailto:mnk...@gmail.com]
> >>> S
mory
>>> space.
>>> But not knowing how VAC works, there's no telling what they look for or how
>>> they are detecting it.
>>>
>>> Keeper
>>> -----Original Message-
>>> From: Michael Krasnow [mailto:mnk...@gmail.com]
>>&g
o telling what they look for or how
>> they are detecting it.
>>
>> Keeper
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Michael Krasnow [mailto:mnk...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:31 PM
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>>
1 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
> doesn't VAC check the memory? but +1 to the option for server admins, but
> somehow someone would find a way to change that or spoof it, idk, its
>
Original Message-
From: Michael Krasnow [mailto:mnk...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:31 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
doesn't VAC check the memory? but +1 to the option for server admins, b
lve will fix it immediately... once you show them how
> fixing
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> HLDS is profitable and worth the man-hours at $50-$60/man-hour.
> >>>>
> >>>> $0.02
> >>>
$50-$60/man-hour.
>>>>
>>>> $0.02
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>>>>
>>>>
he
>>
>>> HLDS is profitable and worth the man-hours at $50-$60/man-hour.
>>>
>>> $0.02
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of
gt; [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> Krasnow
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:31 PM
> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
> >
> > doesn't
.
>
> $0.02
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Michael Krasnow
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:31 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugi
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:31 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
doesn't VAC check the memory? but +1 to the option for server admins, but
somehow someone would find a way to change that or spoof it, idk, its
ve
> plugins running, that would cut some of them out. But even as COD6 has
> proved, you definitely don't need a client side plugin to cheat.
>
> Keeper
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Arg! [mailto:chillic...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:31 PM
>
Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
Im certainly no expert on how the libraries are being used here, but
shouldnt the code explicitly state that certain cvars are to only come from
the replicated source, eg the game server? Sure
for VAC to be updated to detect the cheater
> >>> plugins.
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Craig H
> >>> Sent: Tues
r VAC to be updated to detect the cheater
>>> plugins.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Craig H
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 3:3
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 3:35 PM
> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
> >
> > Sadly this would remove the ability for people to run a server with
> plugins
> > throug
nt: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 3:35 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
> Sadly this would remove the ability for people to run a server with plugins
> through their client. I've done this in the p
-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Craig H
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 3:35 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
Sadly this would remove the ability for people to run a server with pl
e now.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dominic
> Marciano
> > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:14 AM
> > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> > Subject: R
day, March 28, 2010 11:14 AM
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
>
> it takes someone to fall to their death before they put safety rails.
>
>
>> From: saul.renni...@gmail.com
>> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010
Please go to orangad.com.ua for releases
> and info.
>
> > From: saul.renni...@gmail.com
> > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:33:21 +0100
> > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
> >
> > Wher
010 22:33:21 +0100
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
> Where can this plugin be located, and is there source code?
>
> Thanks,
> - Saul.
>
>
> On 28 March 2010 20:50, Charles Mabbott wrote:
&g
gt;
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dominic Marciano
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:14 AM
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough
Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dominic Marciano
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:14 AM
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
>
> it takes
, 2010 11:14 AM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
it takes someone to fall to their death before they put safety rails.
> From: saul.renni...@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:56:39 +0100
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
it takes someone to fall to their death before they put safety rails.
> From: saul.renni...@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:56:39 +0100
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
> How about just allowing plu
he choice would be a nice thing.
> >
> > But they did respond that they are working on it.
> >
> > Keeper
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Kyle Sanderson [mailto:kyle.l...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:33 PM
> > To: Half-Life d
27, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated
> Win32
> server mailing list
> Subject: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
>
> Since forever, players have been able to load plugins on their clients
> letting
From: Kyle Sanderson [mailto:kyle.l...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:33 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32
server mailing list
Subject: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
Since forever, players have been able to load plugi
While they're at it, maybe they'll fix the ghost player issue. Servers are
being blacklisted for fake player counts because of this, because people
don't know it's not our fault
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 4:32 AM, AnAkIn . wrote:
> I have also sent a few emails about this, no answer. It would be ni
I have also sent a few emails about this, no answer. It would be nice if
they finally fix it.
2010/3/28 Michael Krasnow
> one day we will see this in a changelog:
>
> - Removed all commands so that people stop emailing us about fixing
> exploits.
> - All movements decreased by 100%.
> - Increase
one day we will see this in a changelog:
- Removed all commands so that people stop emailing us about fixing
exploits.
- All movements decreased by 100%.
- Increased gravity to 9.
- Removed chat features.
Just wait for it, you will all see :)
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Kyle San
David this was already rectified by the LSS developers, openscript is no
longer the command as it can be easily renamed to anything. I've been
getting hit numerous times by some new exploit which crashes clients /
disconnects everyone ingame. From what I've been told, it's the new
"disconnect" mess
Agreed, hopefully public disclosure will help Valve get a move on fixing
this.
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Michael Krasnow wrote:
> valve really needs to beef up the exploit blocking, look how many exploits
> are still out there, http://wiki.alliedmods.net/SRCDS_Hardening
>
> On Sat, Mar 2
valve really needs to beef up the exploit blocking, look how many exploits
are still out there, http://wiki.alliedmods.net/SRCDS_Hardening
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 8:57 PM, David Kellaway <
david.kella...@member.fsf.org> wrote:
> With regards to the LUA scripting plugin, the next version of KAC wi
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Sanderson
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:33 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32
server mailing list
Subject: [hlds] Plugin Loading on clients, enough is enough.
Sin
With regards to the LUA scripting plugin, the next version of KAC will
treat it as a cheat. I completely agree that it's absurd the community
has to write its own anticheat plugins to plug holes left by Valve's
approach, though.
---
Dave Kellaway
david.kella...@member.fsf.org
On 28 March 2010 00
Since forever, players have been able to load plugins on their clients
letting them get around cheat sensitive variables such as sv_cheats,
allowing them to use r_drawothermodels, mat_wireframe, etc. We as server
admins have had the option to install various anti cheat addons (Kigen Anti
Cheat, VB
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