On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:42:40 +0100, Phil Payne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RESEARCH.FREESERVE.CO.UK wrote:
And what about always posting about how cheap the hardware is getting?
If the hardware (processor) were free it would make little difference.
Snip!
I have to say I find such posts insulting. Does
On 5 Oct 2006 22:31:19 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Timothy Sipples [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
snip
All that said, small
.
Bob Richards
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:42:40 +0100, Phil Payne [EMAIL
In a message dated 10/9/2006 7:48:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think the problem is that the IBM mainframe division has never
really liked dealing with small, maybe because a lot of the support
costs are the same regardless of size of shop. I suspect they
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:05:33 -0400, Richards.Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Tom,
Not even close to a million dollars a month. Of course, your mileage and
product mix may vary, but it is less than half of that. Across the last
two machine-type upgrades (z900s to z990s to z9s), a doubling of
: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:05:33 -0400, Richards.Bob
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Tom,
Not even close to a million dollars a month. Of course, your mileage
and
product mix may vary, but it is less than half of that. Across the last
two machine-type upgrades (z900s
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 10/05/2006
at 07:29 PM, Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Non-PWD members are not supposed to be in possession of the dongle
and are not licensed to use z/Architecture on the box even if they
*do* possess it. (An agreement with IBM to the contrary overrides
the
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 10/06/2006
at 04:22 PM, Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Since it's an acronym, not a word, we get to make up whatever rules
we want for pluralization.
Pluralization isn't the issue; obfuscation is. If you want to refer
to, e.g., MIPSs, MIPSes, MIPSen, that might
I ignored almost all of these posts about a letter to the FLEX-ES Community
since I had never heard of FLEX-ES before. But after seeing 50 new ones
added yesterday, I decided to read one. Sure enough - more pedantic off-topic
nonsense.
Where is the thread killer when we need it most?
Bill,
There were several posts that strayed off of the topic, but if you read at
least the first post on this topic, I think you'll find this very on topic.
Flex-ES is a PC that is fitted with special software so it can run the MVS
operating system. It is also fully licensed by IBM, which
On Friday, 10/06/2006 at 01:31 AST, Pinnacle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The bottom line is that IBM keeps erecting barriers for small developers
to
get on the platform. That's why I'm still developing on a P390 with
z/OS
V1R4 in 31-bit mode. PWD recently added a $1000/yr license charge for
Alan Altmark wrote:
The rock/hard place is if you do s/w development as a hobby, not as a
business, and just want to have fun, recoup your costs, and have a little
something left over to supplement other sources of income. For those
folks the ante may be too high. But I just don't know; I've
Stephen Y Odo wrote:
[...]
Also, IBM excludes all those students who would want to write programs
on the mainframe or just learn how. They can get a Windows or Linux
laptop for about $1.5K with all the software they need. The only way
they can do anything with z/OS is to get an account on
I'm sure Phil would know more, but he's probably too busy fiddling with his
Audi to care
much.
I've been booked for a magazine photo-shoot on Monday - Practical Classics -
to illustrate a
how-to article about servicing AUdi fuel injection systems. When it's
published, I'll post
the URI so
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric N. Bielefeld
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
This surely seems like a good way to start killing
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:55:43 +0900, Timothy Sipples
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you run 10-30 MIPS, chances are you're running z/VSE. That operating
system runs on the vast majority of production FLEX-ES systems. There
are other z/Architecture emulators coming into the picture and real
mainframe
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 18:08:32 -0500, Eric N. Bielefeld eric-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... Is there anyone out there from IBM who can explain this, and
tell us why IBM wants to kill the FLEX box?
The IBMers here are technical, not political or bean counters.
Tom Marchant
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 16:48:44 -0700, Edward Jaffe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you run 10-30 MIPS, chances are you're running z/VSE.
Maybe, maybe not. I know a couple of very small production MVS environments
that fit into that category. We run one very small LPAR on a z900 that
I was looking
The IBMers here are technical, not political or bean counters.
What a load of gonads. Why do they keep posting press releases about obscure
analysts that no
one has ever heard of?
--
Phil Payne
http://www.isham-research.co.uk
+44 7833 654 800
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:11:49 +0100, Phil Payne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RESEARCH.FREESERVE.CO.UK wrote:
The IBMers here are technical, not political or bean counters.
What a load of gonads. Why do they keep posting press releases about
obscure analysts that no one has ever heard of?
I stand
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 15:49:30 -0600, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
We just installed 1.7; there are still some of the
newer hardware instructions that are not supported
Your version of FLex-ES is tailored per agreements.
Small doesn't return big returns. Future? Ah,
you mean next
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 9:31 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:11:49 +0100, Phil Payne [EMAIL
Tim,
All valid points, but as I see it, rather moot to the discussion.
You talk about the new z9 boxes being able to drop down to 26 MIPS. The
thing is still over 6 feet tall and weighs over half a ton! If I were a
software vendor, it would be rather difficult to take that on a plane to
a
Peter D. Ward wrote:
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 15:49:30 -0600, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
We just installed 1.7; there are still some of the
newer hardware instructions that are not supported
Your version of FLex-ES is tailored per agreements.
Yes, but it was _implied_ that this
Eric N. Bielefeld wrote:
If your going to use bad words, at least spell them correctly. Its
MIPS, not MIP. Million Intructions Per SECOND! (LOL)
When you correct someone else's spelling, mistakes make you look really
foolish. I surmise you meant you're going ?
Gerhard Postpischil
Gaudere's Law (aka Merphy's Law) strikes again. Or maybe agin.
Jon
snip
When you correct someone else's spelling, mistakes make you look really
foolish. I surmise you meant you're going ?
/snip
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe /
Million Intructions Per SECOND!
OR
Meaningless Indicator of Processor Speed
Daniel McLaughlin
ZOS Systems Programmer
Crawford Company
PH: 770 621 3256
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you aim at nothing you will hit it every time.
- Zig Ziglar
And what about always posting about how
cheap the hardware is getting?
Another load of carp!
Hardware may be getting cheaper on a unit basis, but we're buying more units.
When in doubt.
PANIC!!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe /
Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
Eric N. Bielefeld wrote:
If your going to use bad words, at least spell them correctly. Its
MIPS, not MIP. Million Intructions Per SECOND! (LOL)
When you correct someone else's spelling, mistakes make you look really
foolish. I surmise you meant you're going
On Friday, 10/06/2006 at 06:27 GMT, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
And what about always posting about how
cheap the hardware is getting?
Another load of carp!
Hardware may be getting cheaper on a unit basis, but we're buying more
units.
Well you can't blame IBM for your increased
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jon Brock
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
Gaudere's Law (aka Merphy's Law) strikes again. Or maybe agin
Yes, I understand that MIP is a bad word.
Also, you're mis-using it.
The S is not for pluralisation.
It stands for Second.
As in:
Millions of Instructions Per Second.
It is 1 MIPS, 2 MIPS, red fish, blue fish.
NOT 1 MIP.
And, MSU's are just as bad, these days.
First, IBM isn't as rigourous
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
Yes, I understand that MIP is a bad word.
Also, you're
Not only that, but it is instructions, not intructions
Don't be Misled by MIPS
When in doubt.
PANIC!!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message:
On Friday, 10/06/2006 at 08:02 GMT, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The S is not for pluralisation.
It stands for Second.
As in:
Millions of Instructions Per Second.
It is 1 MIPS, 2 MIPS, red fish, blue fish.
NOT 1 MIP.
Since it's an acronym, not a word, we get to make up
Well you can't blame IBM for your increased usage!
Some times I can:
1. DB2 V1.2.
2. Any release of TCP/IP for MVS prior to OS/390 V2.5
3. Event Publisher
As the unit cost declines, previously unaffordable projects suddenly become
affordable.
In your dreams!
I have always believed IBM should
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of R.S.
Sent: Friday October 06 2006 02:21
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
Stephen Y Odo wrote:
[...]
Also, IBM excludes all those students who would want to write programs
OBVIOUSLY, MIPS is singluar, even it it isn't a noun. It is an adjective.
Is it an adjective in the sentence:
The processor is/has 200 MIPS?
When in doubt.
PANIC!!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access
Alan, please keep Chuckie away from the keyboard! g
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Alan Altmark
Sent: Friday October 06 2006 13:51
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
On Friday, 10/06
Alan, please keep Chuckie away from the keyboard! g
Put your hands on your head!
And, STEP AWAY from this discussion!
When in doubt.
PANIC!!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email
I think *has* reflects the singular subject box.
It shouldn't reflect the plural object 200 MIPS.
From: Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006
Friday or not... can 'ya all just get over it. This is an informal list, not a
college english class.
My point about MIPS/MSU (while I did digress, and for that I appologise), is
that they are NOT good metrics!
There aren't any good ones, anymore.
LSPR is haphazard.
Gartner is a joke!
Phil
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 20:37:44 +, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OBVIOUSLY, MIPS is singluar, even it it isn't a noun. It is an
adjective.
Is it an adjective in the sentence:
The processor is/has 200 MIPS?
...
Sorry, but he (or somebody) invoked the Humpty Dumpty rule, and once a
word
I got this from the FlexES group. I don't know anything else, but it
sounds a bit ominous to me. But, then again, I don't know.
I just thought it might be of interest to some here as well.
--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
You have to wonder whether this is related to T3's introduction of PSI's
Liberty servers. Liberty overlaps the z9BC low end, perhaps through
250 MIPS.
I'm sure Phil would know more, but he's probably too busy fiddling with
his Audi to care much.
--
David Andrews
A. Duda and Sons, Inc.
[EMAIL
This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get rid
of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get rid of
all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will never now grow
into large customers. There doesn't seem to be a lot of smarts in
@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get rid
of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get rid of
all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will never now grow
into large
Eric N. Bielefeld wrote:
This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get
rid of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get
rid of all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will
never now grow into large customers. There doesn't seem
To The FLEX-ES Community
This surely seems like a good way to start killing the mainframe. Get rid
of the developers of software products for your system. Also, get rid of
all of the really small companies off the mainframe that will never now grow
into large customers. There doesn't seem
.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Eric N. Bielefeld
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 2:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
I have a question. I know this has been discussed
Wayne
What you say makes sense because the company is a PWD.
Tom Moulder
--
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send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives
So, if your a PWD member, you can run 64 bit mode, but if your company just
needs 10 - 30 MIPS or so, you can only run 31 bit mode? That doesn't make
any sense. Is there anyone out there from IBM who can explain this, and
tell us why IBM wants to kill the FLEX box? I'm sure that a few of the
On Thursday, 10/05/2006 at 04:36 EST, Eric N. Bielefeld
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a question. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I
haven't heard any updates lately. Does the FlexEs product legally run
z/OS
in 64 bit addressing mode yet? The last we discussed it on
If you run 10-30 MIPS, chances are you're running z/VSE. That operating
system runs on the vast majority of production FLEX-ES systems. There
are other z/Architecture emulators coming into the picture and real
mainframe hardware now starts as small as 28 MIPS, so the landscape has
changed
- Original Message -
From: Timothy Sipples [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: FW:A Letter To The FLEX-ES Community
snip
All that said, small mainframe customers (and developers) should keep
letting IBM know what
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