I used to arrive at work every morning to have to wade through a two
foot high paper system dump to see why an OS abend had occurred that
night. Every night, pretty well in the early days!
MFT, MVT, MVS. MVS was a LOT better.
Running TSO in 3/4 of a meg was interesting. And VERY slow.
We u
Clem, I've never heard of CLEO. Should I assume it's NOT the same CLEO that
comes up when I search "cleo programming language"? That one looks like some
modern scripting thing.
It's pretty interesting these languages that came and went. You'd think that
there would still be pockets of each,
Please can this conversation be moved to the assembler list (and so give it
usage!)
Thank you
Colin
On Wed, 6 Sept 2023 at 14:35, Phil Smith III wrote:
> Clem, I've never heard of CLEO. Should I assume it's NOT the same CLEO
> that comes up when I search "cleo programming language"? That one loo
e shudders.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Clem Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
I used to arrive at work every morning to ha
.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Clem
Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
Running TSO in 3/4 of a meg was interesting. And VERY slow
Clarke
> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
>
>
> Running TSO in 3/4 of a meg was interesting. And VERY slow.
>
-
If you can explain why without deriding anyone, Bill, I'd be interested in
knowing why. I first encountered ROSCOE in 1980 and used it for a while
without thinking much about it. When I realized I could change things around
in it, I got excited.
It was another two years before I was exposed t
I had been using TSO/ISPF for a decade mostly at GM, then EDS when GM bought
them. Before accepting the job at the small local company (hospital) that used
ROSCOE. In my programming days.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 7, 2023, 4:41 PM, Bob Bridges
wrote:
If you can
-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
What was the first OS that you had a 2 MB TSO region? What hardware.
MVT TSO on the 4 MB 360/91 at UCLA was about 3/4 MB . There was a lot
you could do, although it was slow. I did experiment with overlay
mo
n List on behalf of Clem
Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
Running TSO in 3/4 of a meg was interesting. And VERY slow.
--
___
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Clem Clarke
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
>&g
er had TSO in less than 2 MiB; 768 KiB gives me shudders.
>>
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Clem Clarke
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA
_
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: September 7, 2023 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
Ohio, I was at the top i
ber 7, 2023 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
Ohio, I was at the top in Algebra and Geometry. Early 70’s. I still have the
awards program. I’m very proud of it and my Math expertise paid off handsomely.
Sent from Yahoo
eonard
>
>
> Seymour J Metz wrote on 9/7/2023 3:32 AM:
>> I never had TSO in less than 2 MiB; 768 KiB gives me shudders.
>>
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Clem Clarke
>> Sent: Wednesday, September
And, they're off again.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* "If dickering won't work, then you have to fight. But I think maybe it
takes a man who has been shot at to appreciate how much better it is to fumble
your way through a political compromise rather than have th
We used it at a bank because of the number of application developers. TSO was
reserved for system programmers. Also, it was limited in what you could do
with the OS. made sense for the purpose but it was not a lot of fun. It was
like being moderated at every turn. TSO, was, Liberating.
Ma
500 MB.
>
> /Leonard
>
>
> Seymour J Metz wrote on 9/7/2023 3:32 AM:
>> I never had TSO in less than 2 MiB; 768 KiB gives me shudders.
>>
>> ________
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Clem Clarke
>> Sent:
I didn’t start it. But, I’ll bet I get the warnings.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 7, 2023, 7:21 PM, Bob Bridges
wrote:
And, they're off again.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* "If dickering won't work, then you have to fight. But I thi
Agree.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 7, 2023, 8:00 PM, Matt Hogstrom
wrote:
We used it at a bank because of the number of application developers. TSO was
reserved for system programmers. Also, it was limited in what you could do
with the OS. made sense for the
t;
> >
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
> > Clem Clarke
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler Li
___
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on
> behalf of Clem Clarke
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
> > >
>
udders.
> > > >
> > > > ________________
> > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on
> > behalf of Clem Clarke
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
> > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
Bill Johnson wrote on 9/7/2023 1:05 PM:
We used to use ROSCOE at a small shop in the 80’s because it used less
resources. I hated it.
ROSCOE was one of a collection of TSO alternatives, which were all
junk. TONE, ACEP, Wylbur, maybe more that I don't remember. They all
had 1 two-pronged de
Roscoe was one address space so everything was there when you logged
in. Much like using a CICS editor.
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 8:15 PM Leonard D Woren wrote:
>
> Bill Johnson wrote on 9/7/2023 1:05 PM:
> > We used to use ROSCOE at a small shop in the 80’s because it used less
> > resources. I h
I agree. ROSCOE was clunky & less productive. I’ve never used the other TSO
alternatives.
I seem to remember vaguely ROSCOE requiring the user to “attach” the member you
wanted to edit but that was 35 years ago.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 7, 2023, 9:15 PM, Leonard
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Single address space, keeping users from crossing boundaries
(RACF, ACF2, Top Secret and WACF). Could edit a library with
RECFM=U. So one could keep source there if they wanted. Would, on
close compress the PDS to a single extent if it could.
Used very low level in
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Single address space, keeping users from crossing boundaries
(RACF, ACF2, Top Secret and WACF). Could edit a library with
RECFM=U. So one could keep source there if they wanted. Would, on
close
I'm with most of the posters...
There needs to be an IBM-MAIN-NOSTALGIA list and these trips down memory lane
moved there when they start.
I was pretty much gone from IBM-MAIN over the last 2-3 years due to just being
too busy
to try and keep up but recently have tried to start following again.
Hercules 390 list often gets many of those conversations. Or trying
to recreate the software.
On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 4:17 PM Mark Zelden wrote:
>
> I'm with most of the posters...
>
> There needs to be an IBM-MAIN-NOSTALGIA list and these trips down memory lane
> moved there when they start.
>
>
Steve Thompson wrote on 9/7/2023 7:24 PM:
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Yes, at RAND circa 1976 as a guest of an employee, and at Stanford,
which is where I quickly grew to hate it. Funny thing is, many of the
other Stanford systems people started using TSO more as they saw what
I could do wit
Seymour J Metz wrote on 9/8/2023 5:29 AM:
I used SuperWylbur, but even in the free version you had associative ranges,
which greatly simplified many editing tasks.
Doesn't current ISPF's regexp support let you do the same thing? Not
that I've learned yet how to do that stuff...
Even before
I'd say head them over to
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ProfessionalMainframers
In spite of the name, it's 90% nostalgia - maybe more. And there are a
lot of retired folks there to give upvotes and comments - unlike a new
email group.
For me, I don't mind anything reasonably on-topic. It'
This list is dying just like assembler. Another 5, maybe 10 years, both will be
in the dustbin of history. In 10 years, most of the dominant posters will be
gone.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, September 8, 2023, 7:44 PM, Tom Brennan
wrote:
I'd say head them over to
https://ww
On Fri, Sep 08, 2023 at 04:35:59PM -0700, Leonard D Woren wrote:
You left out URSA at UCLA. Online editing as long as the file was
RECFM FB/80/400. Pre 3270, 20 lines of 40 characters. Along with job
submission and output view capability.
> Just like the rest that I listed. So a failure, inst
AL' 10/15
CHANGE '(' DIGITS*3 ')' TO SUBSTRING 2/4
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Leonard D Woren
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 7:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler L
ursday, September 7, 2023 9:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Single address space, keeping users from crossing boundaries (RACF, ACF2, Top
Secret and WACF). Could edit a library with RECFM=U
Steve Thompson
Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2023 9:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Single address space, keeping users from crossing boundaries (RACF, ACF2, Top
Secret and WACF). Could edit a libra
For what it's worth (which is not much, I realize) I generally read this kind
of thread with interest and sometimes chime in. Not saying you're wrong, Rex,
just casting my own vote the other way.
There are lots of threads that don’t interest me, but it's very little work to
ignore 'em.
---
Bo
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