If you recognize normal, it's easier to recognize injury.
Nancy, that was a great post. And on a related note: saddle fit! I'm a
back problem fanatic, and if you pay attention to gait changes - even the
subtle ones - you can pick up a sore back or a saddle fit issue before the
problem is big.
Metal snaps do add weight but they also have a lot of movement to them
so aren't quite the same.
I've heard that too, but not all have equal movement. It depends on how bit
the rein loop is on the bit, compared to the mouth of the snaps. Also a
factor is how floppy the scissor snap is
Oh yeah--when riding I can FEEL the difference. Show me photos,
though, and I may not be able to figure it out as quick.
Ok, that's great then. To me, it's MUCH more important - and usually more
accurate - to be able to feel the difference. It's good to still have
someone occasionally tape
This is long, but PLEASE read it. There really are times when a horse can
be quite comfortable to ride, even extremely smooth, but the gaits are
giving us a big clue that something is wrong. We need to learn at least
some of the gait basics for the soundness and comfort of our horses!
Many of
I think slobber straps, mecates, and heavy ropes are vastly overrated,
and, with many people who are into Natural Horsemanship, are used b/c they
look cool, and say to everyone else Hey, *I'm* into NH! They just
don't work well w/ gaited horses. People need to use what *works* for their
Please, think about this.
I bought my Big Mac for the wrong reasons in 1988. I felt sorry for him. I
had barely started riding lessons when I bought him to free him from the
stall he lived in 24x7. He was a padded Big Lick horse, one of a handful in
the big self-care boarding barn where Emily
Hey Virginia,
It just occurred to me that you might think my tangent on the list was
directed at you. Quite the opposite! Those are good questions for any
concerned owner to ask. But, we've had too many people who are
professionals that poo-poo the need to know about all the gaits in the past,
Our son and his wife moved their family to Maui a few years ago. The adults
think they're living in heaven. The kids don't like it - don't like the
beach, would you believe?
Their older daughter has a full-ride scholarship to Yale and wouldn't even
have come for the summer if she had been able
On 24/06/07, ellwilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My plans are to continue
this progress over the winter, and our goal is to attend one of the
icelandic clinics next spring, together as a team!
Etain
Hello Etain Good for you! Sounds like you're making wonderful progress.
When you say
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
However, if you can find what he DOES do naturally,
and thru two-way communication, get him set in that
gait, so that you AND he know about it, it's really a
sweet place to be.
Of course, that means YOU, the rider /
so today i was teaching two lessons, and when the first (my littlest
student, twelve years old) was finishing grooming and starting to tack
up, she asked, so what if you didn't bridle a horse before you got on?
and (largely thanks to this list) i said, well, let's try and see,
shall we?
so we
your horse sounds a lot like my Tivar, only a more extreme case...
Just be careful... some people think if a horse acts bad and you are
in a clinic situation with many peanut gallery people egging you on
and you give in to peer pressure--- not good. Because some horses
need to not be pushed, but
oh! we were standing in line to go in the gait for walk trot and this
little show princess about 14 years old beside us said I like your
horse's hair. My friend David said what about his tail braid
where I had put in a little fishtail braid at the top then looped it
like I had seen in pics. The
On 6/24/07, Virginia Tupper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Love the photo! So--how DID he win the ribbon if he can't trot?!
V
actually, this is a great question V, and I am happy to be able to
answer it... my friend who rode him in walk trot, is a person so
experienced at dog showing that he is
On 6/24/07, Virginia Tupper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Great photos!!! Obviously you didn't hurt yourself when you fell--but
that is so scary that your helmet was totalled! Thank goodness you
had it on!
V
and Tivar's most obvious statement-- I landed in a pile of fresh poop
so it covered
Talking about that 'still small voice' -- I don't know if I'm getting
weird with my age, but, I get impressions of feeling trapped when I go
to my barn to see my horses, like I want to have space, fields,
freedomI can't wait till we find our own place.
V
those might be visuals sent by
Thanks Laree,
These web pages were extremely useful. Just what I was looking for to
give me more info.
Gale
http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/biteval.htm
http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/biteval.htm
http://www.redwrench.com/mischorse/bits/severity.htm
On 6/24/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is this a FOXtrot?? this is my friend in walk trot on Jaspar, who deosnt
trot, he is pacey if anything
That does look like it might could be a foxtrot - I guess maybe that's why
Jaspar was chuckling in the other picture. :)
i
Janice McDonald wrote:
So I wonder if you put two gaited horses in together if they will
start mirroring gait and perhaps even lock it in.
I notice that when Kopar is gaiting at liberty in the paddock, Starri
more often than not gaits rather than his usual trot. This is when they
are
That's interesting. What do you use for protection on the trails if not
bell boots?
As usuall my english in terrific!! ok the are
made of neoprene and I do also have leather one´s
you strap them on the leg underneath the knee
(front legs)and I have thoose that that cover
also..darn
. as soon as I get a good pic of my busted helmet
Janice I am happy for the good part of your day - that had to be fun.
Would you and anyone lese that has pic of a busted helmet from a fall,
please send me a copy. I am doing a talk for the local 4-H club next
month on helemet wearing and
I googled Ice tolt and lots of hits came upMalin, are these all
old films/photos?
Trish
the pic at Icelandichorsehomepage is from winter
2005/06 from a competion held nearby saudarkrók that year
and on icelandicsonice it´s from last winter I
think (as I don´t download as my Internet is
This is a great video:
http://iceryder.net/videoclickerfoal.html
Please feel free to forward.
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
Hi
you strap them on the leg underneath the knee
(front legs)and I have thoose that that cover
also..darn forgot the name but you know
..next ? just above the hofok everbody
got it hehhemm.. you know just orginal leg/sinew protection.
You probably mean brush boots - they go
Hi Judy,
Nice video she does a good job of combining having the foal do things by
itself and then with a halter. I know people who prefer to use scratching
rather than food with foals to prevent the mugginess and expectation of
always getting food. Is clearly not a problem with this foal.
Robyn
I have recently heard
enough that I have asked him to order 8 doses for my 8 horses. I just hope
that I do not make them sick.
Renee -
Please make sure you know the complete history of your horses and that
they haven't had strangles or been exposed to it (sometimes after
being exposed,
On 6/24/07, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone know what the slobber straps are good
for?
I know Parreli uses them.
My understanding is that the weight of them gives a
'release' quicker
-- which makes me wonder, wouldn't reins with a
metal clip do the same
thing?
I
When we went to buy our Icelandics, I would only
look at horses that were gaiting at liberty.
Ours both gait at liberty. In fact, I have never seen Tosca trot.
Oh, great!! Can you send us videos?
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
thing? limitation I see is that you can't reduce
the weight
of the contact by
loosening the rein as you can with a regular leather
rein.
Robyn, Would they be good for a hard mouthed horse?
Happy Trails from Lori
Thanks..love all the photos. :0]
Raven
Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies
Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies
Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
So, yes, it is an interesting question in regard to Icelandic Horses
since they are rarely ever seen in gait at liberty!
I don't agree with that Judy, at least not as phrased. If you mean that
Icelandic Horses are rarely seen in the signature breed gait of tolt
then
yes, I totally
Not all rope reins are so heavy
Right. I'm talking about the ones that actually *are* heavy. I use
rope reins too, just not the heavy Parelli-type ones. Mine are rather
light, and comfortable for both me and the horse.
But, please don't be so quick to say that people use them
for appearances
darn forgot the name but you know ..next ? just above the hofok
everbody got it hehhemm.. you know just orginal leg/sinew protection.
Your English is fine, Malin! Thanks for answering. I just wanted to
clarify that you were indeed using some sort of protective boots other than
bell
On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 11:09:16AM -0600, Robyn Schulze wrote:
stjarni
is the only horse i've seen in this area doing anything like soft
lateral gaits (at any of the barns i've ridden at, at shows, at the
beach, on the trails -- several hundred horses).
I must say, I find this
For instance, the guy
who invented the Noavel Headstall. I forget his name. He goes all
over giving clinics, selling videos, has been on rfdtv. Guess what
that headstall is?? A hackamore where the nose part is a piece of
heavy steel re-bar covered in leather. Do you know what rebar is?
It was good except for stopping. I like to stop. LOL
Me too! The best way to get a horse to stop is by teaching it what a
one-rein stop is, so it becomes automatic.
Now on a runaway horse, Judy just posted a great article on that
about *riding* a runaway horse as opposed to trying to stop it.
I think we should try to compile videos of the Icelandics gaiting at
liberty, to see what we can come up with.
That would be cool indeed. I know I have some, but could try to get more.
Do you have any particular gaits at liberty you'd like to see - foxtrot,
stepping pace, running walk, saddle
Here are a few pictures of the Icelandic Horses that were in a Viking
Parade, along with a couple of pictures of Fjords:
http://www.vikingfest.org/photos_07/pages/DSCN5705_JPG.htm
There are tons of pictures there about the parade, carnival, fair, picnic,
fish-eating contest, boats,
Here's some information on the one-rein stop, disengagement, etc.:
http://iceryder.net/onereinstop.html
Please feel free to forward.
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
helped my back/pelvis problems a lot over the past year.
Did Feldenkrais alone for over 22 years daily, but the addition of the
strengthening Egoscue exercises formulated specifically for my needs has
made a world of difference. I can wholly rec. Egoscue. The menus are
designed online
Hi Karen,
I don't agree with that Judy, at least not as phrased. If you mean that
Icelandic Horses are rarely seen in the signature breed gait of tolt then
yes, I totally agree. But I see a lot of gait in my horses at liberty.
I would agree with you Karen. Especially the foals but also as
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a great video:
http://iceryder.net/videoclickerfoal.html
Please feel free to forward.
It is a great video! We can always start over just like this, even
when the horses are older.
Kim
Hi Karen
I've heard that too, but not all have equal movement. It depends on how
bit the rein loop is on the bit, compared to the mouth of the snaps.
That is very true.
My thoughts about the metal snaps giving a disconnected feeling only comes
from 'being the horse' wearing a bridle with
I need to go into the pasture and take
some video of our horses
Yes, that would be great! When can you get some
videos for us to view?
Judy
From Rebecca (who also does rhythm beads, see her site
below):
I've used a Dr. Cook's bitless, non-mechanical
hackamores, sidepulls and a custom-made bosal/sidepull
hybrid that I got from Lodge Ropes (based in
Australia). I've found the basic sidepull
functionality to work the best for my horse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Would also like to see a photo of a TWH racking
without a rider. Karen and Janice you may have seen it?? The
question then
becomes are Rack/ Tolt as defined mostly human influenced gait???
I'm not Karen or Janice, but
I would be very interested to see if anyone has photos of horses in tolt/
rack free in the pasture. Would also like to see a photo of a TWH racking
without a rider. Karen and Janice you may have seen it?? The question then
becomes are Rack/ Tolt as defined mostly human influenced gait???
Personally I do not believe rack/tolt are gaits mostly human influenced.
I guess I read that a little differently from you, Janice. I took Robyn to
mean that maybe rack/tolt might be the easiest to achieve via manipulation, and
that I agree with. I know it is VERY human-manipulated in
On 6/25/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bottom line: Ignorance may be bliss, at least for the rider, but it's often
not so blissful for the horses...
That makes sense. What confuses me though is, if Gat consistently
offers some form of pace, doesn't that mean she prefers to do it
I need to go into the pasture and take some video of our horses going
into and out of the grass eating pasture and also the young horses.
That would be great, Robyn! I know folks get tired of seeing videos and
pics of my horses moving about, and you certainly have more horses at your
farm
Hi Lorraine,
Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in a
Dr. Cook's
bitless, which has the same problem as the slobber
straps in that the
reins tend to flop around unless you have contact
all the time, esp.
w/ the snaps.
Thanks for everyone's input. I appreciate it. I have
been around
These web pages were extremely useful. Just what I was looking for to
give me more info.
Great stuff! THanks for sharing.
Robyn S.
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
but i dont think its a trot. I would say saddle
rack or stepping pace
Actually, I think it IS a trot because the diagnal
legs are working together.
Susan in NV
Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/
Hi Judy
I wonder how that type of contact would compare to the weight of an
icelandic bit?
I am sure that the contact is less but why is everything so extreme? There
is a space in the middle between the weight of the heavy rope contact and
pounds of pressure on the reins as if often used in the
Hi Susan
Actually, I think it IS a trot because the diagnal
legs are working together.
Or is it a fox trot??? No wonder it is so difficult...
Robyn
Icelandic Horse Farm
Robyn Hood Phil Pretty
Vernon BC Canada
www.icefarm.com
--- Robyn Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you come back over we would love to hang with youcould
fill
you in on where to stay, and what to do and stuff like
thatplus
you could see our Icelandics...
Thanks! I will keep that in mind! My son loves Hawaii, and says
when
he
On 25/06/07, susan cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've been wanting to do this for a while, so I bought
3 10' pieces of PVC pipe, 2 90* elbow joints, a tarp
and some shower curtain rings. I placed the PVC in
trash cans and filled with sand to secure them, split
my tarp and VOILA - a car
On 25/06/07, Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Susan
Actually, I think it IS a trot because the diagnal
legs are working together.
Or is it a fox trot??? No wonder it is so difficult...
Robyn
Not really. If the foot fall looks like a trot, but the horse's head
is moving...or
Hi Wanda
Not really. If the foot fall looks like a trot, but the horse's head
is moving...or nodding that indicates it's a foxtrot. Also, there
will be a bit of a bob to the tail carriage as well.
Thanks, I find that much easier to feel on the horse that really see in one
frame of a photo.
how come nobody is telling me what fox's weird high headed I am a
marauding young warrior gait is?
Janice
--
yipie tie yie yo
i think i sighted a mongol horde person in there...
Janice--
yipie tie yie yo
On 25/06/07, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
how come nobody is telling me what fox's weird high headed I am a
marauding young warrior gait is?
Janice
Where is the pic?
Wanda
since he is so beautiful, I took a pic
of him!
His eyes just make you melt - what a doll
--
Laree
That makes sense. What confuses me though is, if Gat consistently
offers some form of pace, doesn't that mean she prefers to do it or is
conformed to do it? Is pace to be avoided no matter what?
I think that's the $64,000 question. Personally, I think some horses are so
wired and/or conformed
On 6/25/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Personally I do not believe rack/tolt are gaits mostly human
influenced.
I guess I read that a little differently from you, Janice. I took Robyn to
mean that maybe rack/tolt might be the easiest to achieve via manipulation,
and that I
but i dont think its a trot. I would say saddle rack or stepping pace?
I don't think it's a pure trot, but beyond that I couldn't say for sure. To be
absolutely sure, you need to see the legs square-on from the side...and I know,
I know, the horses at liberty seldom are so cooperative as to
I am sure that the contact is less but why is everything so extreme?
There
is a space in the middle between the weight of the heavy rope contact and
pounds of pressure on the reins as if often used in the ISTR.
Absolutely; I agree.
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
I never thought about this before. Does this mean that in videos that
one might see of Icelandics being brought in from the field, or following
after a group of riders, that the ones that appear to be tolting are
actually doing perhaps a saddle rack or a RW?
Yep...or foxtrot...except that I
On 6/22/07, Pamela Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ok, Well, I went on a hour long trail ride using the sensation and my
hip was killing me. I have hip problems and have gotten steroid shots
in the past but usually doesn't hurt in the saddle.
I dont have any hip probs at all and have owned
Deacon and I completed our first endurance ride on June 23, 2007 at
the Hopkins Creek ride near Manton, MI. We finished 25 miles in 4 ½
hours, including the hold time.
Deacon stayed in camp this time. We used a highline instead of a
pen, but He probably would have been fine either way. He
Judy - I am so technology challenged that I don't have a clue how to send a
video. If I ever figure it out I'd like you not only to look at Yrsa and
Tosca but also at Hunter the TWH. He rerely does a runnign walk, but I was
out with my daughter on a narrow mountain trail and he was actually
--- djakni1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Deacon and I completed our first endurance ride on
June 23, 2007 at
the Hopkins Creek ride near Manton, MI. We finished
25 miles in 4 ½
hours, including the hold time...
We are looking
forward to our next
ride close to home in September in
On 6/23/07 3:03 PM, Wanda Lauscher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 23/06/07, Anneliese Virro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello List Members:
Do you want to move to Kentucky AND receive an Icelandic Horse of your
choice - mare or gelding - your choice?
All you need to do is buy Tom Cowley's
Congrats to you and Deacon!
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Cheryl
ToltallyICE at Sand Creek Icelandic Horse Farm
Icelandic Horses and Icelandic Sheepdogs
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.toltallyice.com
--- Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Judy - I am so technology challenged that I don't
have a clue how to send a
video.
Nancy, is your video camera digital? Do you download
it to a file on your computer? If so, it is so
simple to upload it to You-Tube. Go to their website
and
It may have been something like a kimberwick. I will have to search my
catalog for a picture.
A picture would be helpful - I can't quite visualize what you're talking
about. I've seen some people locally using wonder bits on RMH. I think
they are excessive on the horses I've seen them on, but
Way to go Kristen! Sounds like you did a very nice job of managing your
ride. How nice to find a vet that knows about Icelandics.
My TWH usually trots for the trot out, but will occassionaly gait. It's
always a relief to have a vet that recognizes that he is not a three speed.
Nancy
Actually they do need trained people who can identify snakes
Ahh, he's only 11...he certainly might change his mind in the next 7-8
years! Did you know that the airport security folks in Guam use Jack
Russells to check the crates and kill poisonous brown snakes that they
find in shipments
Speaking of Mongol hordes. Our son was here for the weekend. We're in
Oregon and he and his new wife live in New Jersey. Brian is half Vietnamese
and Gaylena is from the Ukraine. They look like they could be mounted on
Mongol ponies. Well I guess that would be if a Rutgers grad preppy would
I have trained a few icelandics in Dr Cook's
biteless bridle, I have one of his old bridles and
one with his newest ones. I have never had a problem
with stopping a horse with the biteless bridle, ours
stop better with the bitless bridle.
My MFT stops on a dime with the bits I use. Just
I took the picture in 2005 as the date showed, but I
probably cracked it
about 1999 or 2000. Feel free to use it to scare
small children - and
adults too!
Karen Thomas, NC
I must send it to my friend in NV. She refuses to
wear one. Like nothing could every happen to her. It
kind of
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's some information on the one-rein stop,
disengagement, etc.:
I was not warned about Scooter bolting the time I
goughed him with Cactus. It was just one of those
things. Not too much cactus in CA. LOL
Happy Trails from Lori
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is important for people to remember that riding
with heavy rope
reins and
slobbers straps on a loose rein is like having
constant contact.
Would that be bad for a hard mouth horse?? Lorraine
Happy Trails from Lori
need
all that leverage to
begin with. Here is another situation where people
have gaited horses
and think they need special equipment
-Kristen
I use the Imus bit on my MFT. He does pretty well
with it.
Happy Trails from Lori
Me too! The best way to get a horse to stop is by
teaching it what a
one-rein stop is, so it becomes automatic.
I read that the one rein stop is dangerous. But
Scooter stops with the bit I have now. A snaffle bit,
I have to really pull. This one time he bolted, not
his fault(cactus), I
Deacon and I completed our first endurance ride on June 23, 2007 at
the Hopkins Creek ride near Manton, MI. We finished 25 miles in 4 ½
hours, including the hold time.
Congrats!!
Did you get any pictures on the ride?
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
cause honestly, i would disagree since many if not most walking horses do
not do much other natural gait now but rack/tolt spectrum gaits.
Hmm, maybe that's regional? I really don't know many racky TWH - just the mare
down the road comes to mind. Do you remember her? She was one of the
On 6/23/07 5:47 PM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If only I had a $1,000,000I'd be there in a heartbeat..
Cool...and when I get rich, I'll buy the other farm for sale on the ridge
above Unicorn Valley and we'll all be neighbors! :)
Karen Thomas
He is asking 450,000 for
On 6/25/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
but i dont think its a trot. I would say saddle rack or stepping pace?
I don't think it's a pure trot, but beyond that I couldn't say for sure. To
be absolutely sure, you need to see the legs square-on from the side...and I
know, I know,
reason I assumed saddle rack when excited--- under saddle it feels
just like stonewalls verified saddle rack. so maybe a foxtrot under
saddle can feel like a saddlerack!
Janice
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
reason I assumed saddle rack when excited--- under
saddle it feels
just like stonewalls verified saddle rack. so maybe
a foxtrot under
saddle can feel like a saddlerack!
Maybe it's a foxrack, Janice! Liz found one of those
in Whisper at the
I'll attach Fox's picture again, and also a picture of a horse in stepping
pace. How do they compare?
Judy
I pulled out my Easy-Gaiting Horses book to try and figure this
outand it's so confusing!! On Page 124 are illustrations of the
stepping pace and on page 156 are
Here is Vinney, he is 3/4 Icelandic and just turned
one year on April 22 of this year. He is either
gaiting or galloping in the 4 acre enclosure. Here he
wanted to stop and say hello to my friend's Spanish
Arabian who is here until her new house closes.
On 6/14/07, Raven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
WOW! I have always wondered why no one ever came up with this idea
and now...someone has. I would love one.
http://www.equinemotorcoach.com/
Raven
Somehow I imagine they are priced beyond my budget!?!
Ferne Fedeli
Maybe it's a foxrack, Janice! Liz found one of those
in Whisper at the last clinic I went to.
gosh makes you just wish you could hop on one and be a passenger while
they are at liberty doesnt it??
Janice--
yipie tie yie yo
On 6/25/07, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
here is a pic of Jas (sorrel) and Stonewall (pinto) gaiting at
liberty. Altho jas is very pacey under saddle here just seems to me
he is getting more trotty and foxtrotty than I realized! and
Stonewall, always saddleracking under saddle,
On 6/25/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
cause honestly, i would disagree since many if not most walking horses
do not do much other natural gait now but rack/tolt spectrum gaits.
Hmm, maybe that's regional? I really don't know many racky TWH - just the
mare down the road comes
On 6/23/07 7:16 PM, Robyn Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When my son was 6, we were driving thru town and he mused, Mom, where
do people in the suburbs keep their horses? I thought that was
really cute and innocent--he thinks that b/c we have horses, then that
means that everyone does!
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
or is jas doing his stepping pace.
It looks to be that Jas is runwalky, and Stonwall
looks pretty trotty here.
Susan in NV
Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/
On 6/24/07 11:03 AM, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 6/24/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No attachment came through for me...or was that the joke...? I'm never quite
sure with Janice!
try again?? it was no joke!
Janice
Janice:
I cannot open the file or I
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