I regret not being able to understand the language. The horse is very
resistant for part of this ride. For all I know, he's describing that
resistance. I don't think you can fairly judge the way he is moving based
on this video. His tail is wringing; his mouth is open and his head and
neck
I regret not being able to understand the language. The horse is very
resistant for
part of this ride. For all I know, he's describing that resistance. I
don't think you
can fairly judge the way he is moving based on this video. His tail is
wringing; his
mouth is open and his head and
2008/6/13 Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I would not dream of placing a for sale video on YouTube of a horse
that was constantly wringing it's tail, for one thing...
True. I think Nancy is correct in assuming that it must be a 'what
not to do' video...
Wanda
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:31:50 -0700, you wrote:
Thanks for the link, Mic. Not too much usable there. Are there any other
videos of Icelandic Horses moving towards the camera?
I spent ages hunting all over YouTube and couldn't find anything
better than that one. That's the trouble with the
Just curious, Cherie, do a lot of Fjord owners present and ride their
own
horses?
The horses are usually presented by the owners. Some of the bigger
Fjord farms have trainers who live on the farm and train for the owners.
In that case, the trainers present with the owner there.
According to
And does that affect your ability to enjoy her on the trail...? ;)
Probably not but there is a chance that allowed to go to the extreme
some of these faults could affect performance - remember, a breed
standard is an ideal to strive for and while never expecting
perfection, it should be what
Hunter, with his fine long neck and clean throat latch, is inclined to
travel hollow
and/or ventroflexed. Tosca, with her short heavy neck, is NEVER
ventroflexed and
travels along in a workman like way with her head in a nice relaxed natural
position.
That's a good point. Some
Probably not but there is a chance that allowed to go to the extreme
some of these faults could affect performance - remember, a breed
standard is an ideal to strive for and while never expecting perfection,
it should be what you are aiming for. I think the key is just to put
the bigger
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When I first got into this breed, I was stunned by
how rudely the show
people were to me. I know that others have said
the same thing.
Well, the same could be said of the dog show crowd.
Let's see, I started showing dogs when I was 7 and now
I'm
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as
throatlatches, etc., - the traits that may have
some effect on certain
performance skills
That's the same tho in every breed be it dog or horse.
The little things that are not for form or function
are important to type which is what
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
So it's not just
the Icelandics where show people are snobs.
I can honestly say that any sort of snobbishness is incredibly rare in
Icelandic horse show people in the UK - thank goodness.
Mic
Mic (Michelle) Rushen
I can honestly say that any sort of snobbishness is incredibly rare in
Icelandic horse show people in the UK - thank goodness.
I don't know how it is in other countries, but after having horses for 15
years, and having a daughter that showed for several years, I was totally
unprepared for
Now, have we beat this dead horse enough, yet?
I think conformation is a very interesting and important subject, and
personally, I can't imagine over-discussing it. I've enjoyed hearing how
Laree, Lynn, Nancy and a few others with other horse experience feel
about certain conformation
I spent ages hunting all over YouTube and couldn't find anything
better than that one. That's the trouble with the
audience/judges/photographers/cameramen always being at the side of
the oval or pace track.
Here's a video where you can see the conformation of the front legs, and the
winging
2008/6/12 Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Here's a video where you can see the conformation of the front legs, and the
winging movement (around 2.46 minutes, etc.):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jg9PdIP0QhQ
I have another question. What gait was that? I paused it in various
stages and couldn't
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now, have we beat this dead horse enough, yet?
I think conformation is a very interesting and
important subject, and
personally, I can't imagine over-discussing it.
There's discussing, then there's making the same point
over and over without
2008/6/12 Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Here's a video where you can see the conformation
of the front legs, and the
winging movement (around 2.46 minutes, etc.):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jg9PdIP0QhQ
What, other than conformation, would cause occasional
winging or paddling? I was
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:30:14 -0700, you wrote:
Here's a video where you can see the conformation of the front legs, and the
winging movement (around 2.46 minutes, etc.):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jg9PdIP0QhQ
Interesting. Although he's a stallion who came 6th at the WC in tolt,
his judging
So it's not just
the Icelandics where show people are snobs.
I can honestly say that any sort of snobbishness is incredibly rare in
Icelandic horse show people in the UK - thank goodness.
The same complaint comes up about the Peruvian show ring, but having
been a newbie, an exhibitor,
I was riding with an arab gelding this past weekend who would occasionally
wing/paddle only one front leg, but not all the time.
That's weird, I just got back from a ride with a young (4 yr old) Arab
gelding who used his front feet really oddly. We sort of picked him apart
in the wash rack
Here's a video where you can see the conformation of the front legs, and
the
winging movement (around 2.46 minutes, etc.):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jg9PdIP0QhQ
Interesting. Although he's a stallion who came 6th at the WC in tolt,
his judging marks are pretty low - 7.46 overall, with 7.38
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jg9PdIP0QhQ
I have another question. What gait was that? I paused it in various
stages and couldn't get a read on what it was the horse was supposed
to be doing. It certainly wasn't a smooth gait.
Was that supposed to be a trot? Some of the footfalls
Doesn't Feldmann have any naturally gaited horses to work with?
I suspect that he rides and trains all his horses the same way, no matter
what their nature. All the Icelandic's, Aiegenburgers (sp?), and
Saddlebreds that I've seen in his videos seem to move exactly the same way.
I wouldn't
2008/6/12 Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jg9PdIP0QhQ
It was tolt in most parts, but a very rough tolt, probably not the horse's
gait of choice, and probably not his natural gait.
I just looked at the video again. Notice how 'off' the foot fall is
at the beginning of
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jg9PdIP0QhQ
Here is an image where you can see how bad his legs are in movement.
His airborn left front leg sticks way out to the side, and his other three
legs are pointed down towards the same point (like a V).
Here is a picture of his legs compared with a
Must have been Bob Rosser.
It was indeed. He baked great bread, too. We were never at his place out
of Cave Junction, but did visit at the cabin he build closer to Wilderville
(was it Waters Creek?). He had built a special bread raising shelf into
the rocks in his fireplace. My
Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti:
Along the same lines,
conformation is conformation, no matter what the breed, no matter what the
gaitedness.
So actually you want to breed the Icelandic out of these horses and make one
this is good conformation-horsebreed?
Krisse
It is too bad most breeders don't pay attention to feet and legs. My Icey
gelding
that came from Brenda Devine has good hard feet and a lot of bone. I picked
him
because he looked like a horse that would stay sound. He is being
conditioned to go on
a 4 day pack trip in the Marble Mt
I think the Fjord people have a better system.
Here is a description of some of what comprises a Fjord evaluation. The
owner gets a score sheet that explains how the horse was graded.
They not only have a conformation evaluation but there are also use
tests.
Riding, driving, draft pulling to show
So actually you want to breed the Icelandic out of these horses and make
one this
is good conformation-horsebreed?
Absolutely not! I don't really want to improve the breed at all. I think
there is
plenty of good conformation in the gene pool, and I'd only want to PRESERVE
what we
The Fjord Horse International Association also publishes a book for judges
and
breeders that explain the evals.
What a novel idea. ;)
Do you have a copy of it, that you might share a few points with us? Do you
know how much
it is to buy it? I might like a copy, just to broaden my
So actually you want to breed the Icelandic out of these horses and
make one this is good conformation-horsebreed?
Any horse breed should be a good conformation horse breed -- ie.,
mechanically functional for life in the wild (where nature determines
if they are sound enough to survive)
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:50:34 -0400, you wrote:
In the Icelandic evaluations, the walk is only given 1.5% weighting. That's
odd to me
since the walk is the mother of all gaits.
It's only fairly recently that walk has been included in breeding
assessments at all - mostly because it was so rare
Here is a first prize stallion used in Finland, with 8,0 for proportions.
Krisse, can we see pictures of his legs from directly in front (of the front
legs), and from the side and back (of the back legs)?
Do you have any video of his movement? Does he wing in the front when
moving? Do the
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:19:47 -0700, you wrote:
Do you have any video of his movement? Does he wing in the front when
moving? Do the back legs travel straight?
There are a few straight on bits of horses in this video from the WC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNFV4Wqdcj4
Mic
Mic (Michelle)
It's only fairly recently that walk has been included in breeding
assessments at all - mostly because it was so rare to see horses in
Iceland with a decent walk as few of the trainers bothered much with it
and the horses were so hyped up at the assessments that finding a decent
walk was
I don't have a copy of the International one.
We did a mock U.S. eval at the Fjord Fun Fest last year and the basic
test is done in-hand. Walking in a triangle pattern, and trotting in a
triangle pattern. They ask that the lead be loose. The horse is to
stand quietly while the judge looks it
Do you have any video of his movement? Does he wing in the front when
moving? Do the back legs travel straight?
There are a few straight on bits of horses in this video from the WC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNFV4Wqdcj4
Thanks for the link, Mic. Not too much usable there. Are there
Here is a link to the Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry (this is the U.S.
registry) If you click on evaluation program and scroll to the bottom of
the page, there are links to the PDF files explaining the whole process:
https://www.nfhr.org/index.php?com_frontpageItemid=1Cherie
That's
But, if anyone is going to try to test with riders, these look like
reasonable patterns to show.
Just curious, Cherie, do a lot of Fjord owners present and ride their own
horses? Or do they have special Norwegians do that for them? I was
thinking that I could actually ride those tests on my
Nancy, I don't know if you read these, but I chuckled over one detail. This
is one of the few breed standards that doesn't call for a clean
throatlatch.
Well good for them. And what is a clean throatlatch anyway ? I'm
joking. Hunter has one - Tosca doesn't.
I had her in the washrack
Well good for them. And what is a clean throatlatch anyway ? I'm
joking. Hunter
has one - Tosca doesn't.
And does that affect your ability to enjoy her on the trail...? ;) Some
conformation
traits are important to some disciplines/sports than others. And some
conformation
They don't hurt a thing for the kind of riding I do.
Nor the kind I do. Not one of the four horses we own would ever make a
dressaage horse. Itf I wanted to ride dressage again, I'd go find a
different kind of horse.
However, Hunter, despite the baggage he arrived with, has been one
Assuming you do not just want to do away with any evaluation or
inspection system, specific suggestions of what to improve or how to
make improvements would be more useful than pointing out only what you
don't like. Perhaps there is another breed or discipline that has a
method in place
We once had an old cowboy farrier - wonderful guy. He actually self
published a book on hoof care and shoeing. He'd worked on some of the big
old time Western cattle ranches and he'd spent a lot of time alone with a
horse - thinking.
Must have been Bob Rosser. He cooked really good Mexican
In the picture he was REALLY showing off - in a new field with mares over
the hedge
and another stallion in an adjoining field. Plus his feet really needed a
trim - I
think part of the flip is flare on the hoof. Here's another trot pic.
I don't think what I saw in the original picture
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 8:47 PM, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Your guys would be interesting because they aren't pure bred Icelandics and
we could see if we see any
differences.
Actually, Tosca is 3/4 Icelandic and Yrsa is registered and purebred. There
are differences in their
I think the more balanced the angles are front and rear, the better
the horse is at the 4 beat gaits.
This should have been 2 beat and 4 beat
--
Laree in NC
Doppa Mura
Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang)
Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to
the horse, his human
Here's an interesting article on swayback:
http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/anatomy/swaybacks_081205/
Interesting article, Lynn - thanks for posting
--
Laree in NC
Doppa Mura
Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang)
Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to
I don't think she particularly pretty or cute, but we have a very nice
bonding going on and she seems really to enjoy the tough mountain trail
riding we do.
Pretty is as pretty does has no better example than in horses - my
Ugly Betty here is beautiful in my eyes because she is so wonderful
One biggee is the laxity or flexibility or tightness / looseness of the
tendons and ligaments.
But, say you have a short back with lax tendons and ligaments. The back
looks fine from a standing-still-conformation-picture, but get on the
horse,
and it sags down, even with a light rider.
When you see Icelandic Horses being trotted in shows, competitions,
evaluations, they are not rounded (and not collected). They just don't have
the ability to do so.
Is this a flat out always true statement? My grandaughter wanted a horse to
take lessons on and I offered up the
We have a sensation for him. If I can find a pic with it on him, I'll
forward.
Thank goodness for Sensatiosn
Well being that Dagur is in our lengthy training program, he's just
nicely started under saddle. I haven't seen any evidence of pace in
him at all.
I wonder if the shorter
What do you see?
Wanda
I see a beautiful Dagur.
Lorraine
goes nicely into his shoulders - his front legs are strong,and
straight - his angles are very similiar to Doppa's - more angulation in
the front and a short humerus with a more open, straight angle in the
rear
This is why I hate conformation discussions - seems like everyone uses
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Laree Shulman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have attached some pics of Doppa (she isn't a model so these aren't
perfect conformation shots) and I think it would be helpful if some
of the folks that breed (Mic, Karen, etc) and some of the folks that
are
This is a very good idea Laree. What I would like to see is an entire
group of Icelandic conformation photos, including one that the experienced
folks think is near perfect. Then I'd like to have their faults pointed
out. I have no intention of breeding or selling my mares and I think I'm
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a very good idea Laree. What I would like to see is an entire
group of Icelandic conformation photos,
I think it's very important we don't use photos unless we have the
owner's permission. Your guys would be
Great idea Laree. I'll take some of Kria. I know Karen and Anna each
have one of her offspring. They might be interested in knowing how
far their apples fell from the tree.
Laree, take this for what it's worth, but I pay attention to legs.
What do you see?
Laree, do you know where her LS joint is in relation to her hip bones?
Wanda
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:38:47 -0400, you wrote:
I think it would be helpful if some
of the folks that breed (Mic, Karen, etc) and some of the folks that
are knowledgable about conformation(Judy, etc) would take these pics
and list some of the strong and weak points of this horse.
I freely admit
I have attached some pics of Doppa (she isn't a model so these aren't
perfect conformation shots) and I think it would be helpful if some of
the folks that breed (Mic, Karen, etc) and some of the folks that are
knowledgable about conformation(Judy, etc) would take these pics and
list
Come on, Folks, who's going to take a shot at this - you don't have to
be an expert.
This is great! Wanda, Karen, Mic - thanks for jumping in. I am going
to try to take a stab at looking at these pics like I don't know her
and tell you what I see - for those of you that are new to this, you
2008/6/5 Laree Shulman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Now you can see that conformation to some extent is a personal opinion
and that none of us are wrong, we just look each horse a little
differently - bringing something different to the table. Anyone else
want to jump in before I tell you what I
I will see if my friend down the street that took the photos can do
the videos. I don't have the right equipment - my cell phone makes
phone calls and nothing else. My camera might have a video feature.
Personally I thought her
back was a little long, but it's not sagging at all...so there
It's harder than you think to get pics that are helpful at all - they
definitely aren't into this modelling gig.
Oh no. I must be the stereotypical stage mom. Sina seems to love modeling.
Have I shown you her portfolio? She models on several websites now. At
least she's a healthy
Great idea Laree. I'll take some of Kria.
I have Kria's daughter, Saga. When I bought Saga, I had her bred to Robyn's
Segull. Saga is a very nice mare in so many ways - wonderful personality,
friendly, sweet, nice-enough conformation, gaits out the ying-yang, but she
only strikes you as
I think this mare has a pleasant enough head (Icelandics don't have the
prettiest heads,as a whole) and it seems in proportion to her body. Her
ears are a little large but not to a point that they are distracting and
they are well placed. She has a nice soft eye and pleasant expression.
--- Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
This is a rising
three year old colt called Odin.
I'll take a stab at this, but I could be all wrong!
First of all, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE his color, but you
can't ride color. I think he is a bit short in the
neck, long in the back, and butt high. His
Here's another one for people to have a go with. This is a rising
three year old colt called Odin.
Oh, one thing I really like about this horse is that in the front his
bones from the wither to the chest and from the chest to the elbow are
equal length and should give him good reach.
--
Laree
but a gaited horse isn't going to
have much dressage potential, so I tend to focus on the traits that affect
the careers I'm breeding horses for - trail and pleasure. Her neck is just
fine for a pleasure horse - she can reach the ground to graze, right? :)
I do think a nice length neck does
But, say you have a short back with lax tendons and ligaments. The back
looks fine from a standing-still-conformation-picture, but get on the
horse, and it sags down, even with a light rider.
My sweet Loftur is one of those. He had a lot of back problems from old
injuries when he came
Here's another one for people to have a go with. This is a rising three
year old colt called Odin.
His conformation dictates (to me) that he needs to live in an overcast, damp
or cloudy climate, preferably far from the equator. It's sunscreen season
here in NC, and I've fought Gracie so
I'm curious what makes you say that he'll be happy at trot and tolt. I
don't think I see many horses that do those two gaits well under saddle. I
think some horses can do both, but not many are really good (naturally) at
both.
I think the more balanced the angles are front and rear, the
Or say you have a long back with very tight / stiff tendons and ligaments
and the horse can carry weight, but can't bend
Doppa is very flexible but we spend time every ride bending and
stretching - do you think that makes a difference?
Yes, I think it does make a difference, but there
2008/6/5 Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Yes, I REALLY want to see pictures of Kria.
Can you stand seeing pics of her pre-farrier visit? I'll pop a halter
on her tonight and try get some of her away from the poop pile, and
perhaps brushed up a bit...
Our farrier has had a serious horse health
Can you stand seeing pics of her pre-farrier visit? I'll pop a halter on
her tonight
and try get some of her away from the poop pile, and perhaps brushed up a
bit...
I really insist that you brush her first. Lack of brushing affects BLUP scores
and if I
see a picture of her dirty,
On Jun 5, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Judy Ryder wrote:
It's not just the length to be considered, but things that we can't
see!
One biggee is the laxity or flexibility or tightness / looseness of
the
tendons and ligaments.
Normally a short back *would* be stronger than a long back.
But, say
2008/6/5 Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I really insist that you brush her first. Lack of brushing affects BLUP
scores and if I
see a picture of her dirty, then...poof...Tifa will be a lesser filly for it.
We wouldn't
want that. ;)
Actually, she's one of those girls that looks neat and
That's a horse that needs some ab toning. The strength of the back is not
only in the
topline, but also in the abdominals . . .just like it is with humans.
Caveletti work
is one way to tone the abdominal muscles on a horse, and also riding on
uneven trails
and doing lots of hill
I'm sure that ab work will help a horse with a back that sags easily,
but I think there's
more to it than that. I don't particularly do a lot of ab work per se
with my horses, but
most don't have saggy backs. Loftur has always been that way since I
got him. Why would
he need ab work
Your guys would be interesting because they aren't pure bred Icelandics and
we could see if we see any
differences.
Actually, Tosca is 3/4 Icelandic and Yrsa is registered and purebred. There
are differences in their conformation, but I haven't a clue as to whether it
is because of their
Here's an interesting article on swayback:
http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/anatomy/swaybacks_081205/
No, Loftur's not swayback. His back looks pretty normal, but it drops with
weight. I assume he has the characteristics that Judy was talking about.
When he's in pain, I can
Actually, Tosca is 3/4 Icelandic and Yrsa is registered and purebred.
There are differences in their conformation, but I haven't a clue as to
whether it is because of their genetics or just because they are
different. They have the same sire. I think Tosca's head is plain and
Yrsa's is
I do think a nice length neck does help with balance and the way the
neck is set into the shoulders is important.
Sure, but again, it depends on what you want. I've talked to Liz about this
and this is what she says, and it's what I've seen as well. Gait originates
in the rear end. In
I've always been taught - and experienced - that horses with an upright
shoulder have a much harder, less comfortable trot.
I'm sure there are a lot of factors in determining how comfortable a horse
is to ride, traits as simple as strength, relaxation and balance, so that
may be true
Here is a picture from Iceland. Looking at the legs,
you can see the toeing-out, the closeness of the front
legs, and the knock knees.
http://hevmar.com/image-aktuell/smw-media071208-0034-w.jpg
Judy
http://iceryder.net/
http://clickryder.com
Pictures from the three Liz Graves clinics I've attended, relating to the
marking of conformation for gait analysis.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=4jh0nhxz.1j9vu9rrx=0y=2kxbdc
Note that Flekka and Maja are pregnant, and are beginning to show - baby
bumps only affect gaits in that they may
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pictures from the three Liz Graves clinics I've
attended, relating to the
marking of conformation for gait analysis.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=4jh0nhxz.1j9vu9rrx=0y=2kxbdc
Let's see if I remember this correctly, if the dot at
the point
On 9/20/07, Skye and Sally ~Fire Island [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From experience I know that longg toes can cause wingingwe
just rimmed a MFT the other day, it had been 4 months since her last
trim (the owner could not catch her 8 weeks ago when we were
there)..so Sally watched her
On Thu, Sep 20, 2007 at 11:47:06AM -0700, Skye and Sally ~Fire Island wrote:
From experience I know that longg toes can cause wingingwe
just rimmed a MFT the other day, it had been 4 months since her last
trim (the owner could not catch her 8 weeks ago when we were
there)..so Sally
He looks exactly like Santana, who would foxtrot if I'd let him (Lee
Ziegler and another trainer both told me he was built like a foxtrotter),
but at the time I insisted he do a RW b/c he is a TWH. I've since then
changed my opinion, but he still does a pretty nice RW.
Nancy, first let me tell
I have seen the marked up pictures, Karen, but I'd love to see them again.
Don't you suspect that there might also be a genetic wired-in component in
the ability to gait?
Nancy
Good call, Robyn. That's Hunter, the very trotty TWH. He fades so much in
the summer that he looks like a bay or even dun by August, but he's actually
a black horse. Two TWH breeders told me he racks and he can really fly in
gait, so I'm going to assume they have it right. He also had a huge
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think the conformation analyses are 100%. -
but I DO think they are overwhelmingly accurate for AT
LEAST telling us which side of the gait range the
horse falls to, and amazingly can be much more
accurate.
It is such a shame we don't have Lee's
Don't you suspect that there might also be a genetic wired-in component
in
the ability to gait?
There are three components to gait: boney structure, musculature, and
neural wiring.
No gait gene has been found, at least so far.
There is a theory that the gaited horse retains some
When I looked at the picture I thought -- hmm, pretty horse, she can
probably do all gaits, if asked. Sill think so -- she is at the
moderate/medium length in all the proportions, to my eye (haven't gotten
out the measuring stick)... And she was right on about Whisper!
I was a little skeptical
Oh yes. I'd love to see it.
I ride with a bunch of people who ride either purebred Arabs or Anglo Arabs.
One woman, in particular, does not like gaited horses ... sort of a
prejudice/ strongly held opinion thing.
After 2 1/2 years, however, she is beginning to say nice things (sort of)
about
You're going to have to educate me here, Karen.
Traveler is beautiful and my guess would be that he leans toward the trot.
I'm thinking Eitill might have a full range of gaits and can't even come up
with a guess on the other two.
Nancy
Traveler is beautiful and my guess would be that he leans toward the
trot. I'm thinking Eitill might have a full range of gaits and can't even
come up with a guess on the other two.
Traveller belongs to Janice and Donny - I just met him at the Liz Graves
clinic last year. He seems to default
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