Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Am 10.03.2016 um 16:44 schrieb Andrew Brown : > as @Arvids said, var is missing functionality that public has, so they are > not exact aliases of each other. i think this is valid enough reason to > remove it. To me this is reason enough to keep it. If your codebase does not

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

as @Arvids said, var is missing functionality that public has, so they are not exact aliases of each other. i think this is valid enough reason to remove it. even if it weren't the case, I would say let the language maintainers decide if this cleanup would be worth it to them and make their lives

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 10/03/2016 10:28: some inconsiderate and self-centered group of individuals has unilaterally decided There is no conspiracy. You are contributing to the list where the decisions are made. If you think the decision-making process can be improved, help us improve it. If

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 10/03/2016 10:38: "Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56e0025c.5040...@gmail.com... This leaves us back with a decision about *which* BC breaks are acceptable, discussion of which includes how many people use the feature, how it will affect them, and what the benefits

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Le jeudi 10 mars 2016, 10:28:58 Tony Marston a écrit : > It is perfectly legitimate to question the competence, professionalism, and > intelligence of any individual (or group) who seeks to break BC for NO GOOD > REASON other than personal preference. > I don't mind a language that evolves with

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, 12:29 Tony Marston, wrote: > "James Titcumb" wrote in message > news:CAKnqCEZMh-P8XmAeQtdPnw4ZaZGb4=wmm_9qyzphtupuwax...@mail.gmail.com... > > > >> > >> need to have their competence, professionalism, and intelligence > >> questioned. > > > >Tony,

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

> > It is perfectly legitimate to question the competence, professionalism, > and intelligence of any individual (or group) who seeks to break BC for NO > GOOD REASON other than personal preference. As has already stated, you are insulting people by doing this. Please stop insulting people; as

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56e0025c.5040...@gmail.com... Tony Marston wrote on 09/03/2016 10:31: As a developer who went through several COBOL upgrades I can attest to the fact that BC breaks were extremely rare and only for a good reason. My code was never affected simply because

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Arvids Godjuks" wrote in message news:CAL0xaBF-cx+hijFD=YNiihhKknpxwo0JdO+oNRada=b0jyy...@mail.gmail.com... All languages are evolving, and part of that is removing old baggage, even if that baggage is harmful. Because ease of maintenance. When you have multiple ways to do a thing, that means

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"James Titcumb" wrote in message news:CAKnqCEZMh-P8XmAeQtdPnw4ZaZGb4=wmm_9qyzphtupuwax...@mail.gmail.com... need to have their competence, professionalism, and intelligence questioned. Tony, making a statement like this is unprofessional in itself. You've already been asked to put emotions

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi list, I think that removing it in any 7.x would be too soon. We should mark it as future deprecation then remove it at a later date. While I don't come across the use of var too much, it does still exist in code bases that are quite old. On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Fleshgrinder

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

@Tony Marston: I cannot reply anymore to you because you are discrediting yourself with every mail you send and I do not want to contribute to this any further; I might reply again if you write something that is actually contributing to this discussion. In the meantime: read what Rowan Collins

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Yes, you're quite right - my mistake!

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

James Titcumb wrote on 09/03/2016 11:13: By the way Yasuo, you didn't include the internals mailing list in your last reply. I think possibly you didn't include the list in a previous reply then, assuming Yasuo was replying to something you wrote? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 9 March 2016 at 11:09, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > > Since there is conversion script, how about just write RFC and start > voting? I seems discussion never ends. I agree completely :) By the way Yasuo, you didn't include the internals mailing list in your last reply.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 09/03/2016 10:35: Hi all, Keeping aliases do not harm much. It may stay forever. How about stop discussion, but write code? The only chance this kind of proposal to pass is existence of "conversion program" that replaces aliases in older codes. If there is anyone who

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 09/03/2016 10:31: As a developer who went through several COBOL upgrades I can attest to the fact that BC breaks were extremely rare and only for a good reason. My code was never affected simply because I never used any of the dodgy features (such as ALTER ... GO TO ...)

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 09/03/2016 10:09: What we as userland developers do with our own code only affects us. What you as core developers do with the language affects every one of the millions of userland developers all over the world. I touched on this in another message, but I think you may

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi all, Keeping aliases do not harm much. It may stay forever. How about stop discussion, but write code? The only chance this kind of proposal to pass is existence of "conversion program" that replaces aliases in older codes. If there is anyone who would like to volunteer for this, please

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56df3dfb.10...@fleshgrinder.com... @Tony Marston: I feel directly attacked and offended and others have the feeling too, that is the definition of an insult. That being said, I am staying constructive the whole time and do not avoid communication with you or anyone else

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 09/03/2016 09:51: Those who advocate the removal of long-standing features of the language FOR NO GOOD REASON [...] What you have to understand is that this is YOUR OPINION. Even if, in your opinion, anyone who doesn't share that opinion is incompetent, or whatever

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

All languages are evolving, and part of that is removing old baggage, even if that baggage is harmful. Because ease of maintenance. When you have multiple ways to do a thing, that means that when you touch some part of it, you have to remember to update everything else. It's easy with

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Andrew Brown" wrote in message news:CAH=AbGJAnYK1Vra+7mU=Ldcb+9Tp6+qbT9yaVzX60GJ=yjs...@mail.gmail.com... the main argument against removing var that I continue to hear is that 'my old code won't work anymore because of this unnecessary BC break'. but the thing is, your code *will* continue

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

> > need to have their competence, professionalism, and intelligence > questioned. Tony, making a statement like this is unprofessional in itself. You've already been asked to put emotions aside and discuss this topic on the technical merit, there's no need to question people's competence,

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56dea829.5030...@gmail.com... Tony Marston wrote on 08/03/2016 09:51: a "Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56dd64f5.5010...@gmail.com... Tony Marston wrote on 07/03/2016 09:14: That takes brains and discipline, something which appears to be lacking

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

> > > That we should definitely avoid. I do not consider the *var* keyword > being a discussion about coding style preferences---this decision was > already made in PHP 5! The *public* keyword was introduced and it > superseded the *var* keyword including an E_STRICT error. Hence, this >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

@Tony Marston: I feel directly attacked and offended and others have the feeling too, that is the definition of an insult. That being said, I am staying constructive the whole time and do not avoid communication with you or anyone else because I think we are discussing an important topic. BUT! As

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

TRIMMING TO COMPENSATE FOR TOP POSTING On 08/03/16 17:19, Andrew Brown wrote: > the main argument against removing var that I continue to hear is that 'my > old code won't work anymore because of this unnecessary BC break'. but the > thing is, your code *will* continue to work. unless *you

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

the main argument against removing var that I continue to hear is that 'my old code won't work anymore because of this unnecessary BC break'. but the thing is, your code *will* continue to work. unless *you choose* to upgrade your PHP version. if you stay on the current major version, it will

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 08/03/16 10:12, Tony Marston wrote: > > The only thing I am learning here is that there are too many cooks > spoiling the broth. There are too many people who want to change the > language into something it was not meant to be. There are too many > people who have this notion of language

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 08/03/2016 09:51: a "Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56dd64f5.5010...@gmail.com... Tony Marston wrote on 07/03/2016 09:14: That takes brains and discipline, something which appears to be lacking in the PHP community. [...] just because some numpty decides [...]

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56ddef7b.6080...@fleshgrinder.com... On 3/7/2016 10:14 AM, Tony Marston wrote: [...] Mind you, those languages were maintained by groups of competent professionals and not an army of chimpanzees. I will not reply fully to your last message because it was yet again

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Walter Parker" wrote in message news:CAMPTd_BvX-vcnm5UejW8B_162AVmVx_+9a=epzx3yn5hz5d...@mail.gmail.com... On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:27 AM, wrote: > Change for the sake of change is bad, no argument there. Change for the > sake of progress is not and totally normal.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

a "Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56dd64f5.5010...@gmail.com... Tony Marston wrote on 07/03/2016 09:14: That takes brains and discipline, something which appears to be lacking in the PHP community. [...] just because some numpty decides [...] groups of competent professionals and not

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56dd68c0.1090...@gmail.com... Tony Marston wrote on 06/03/2016 08:59: I have worked with two other languages for over a decade each, and as these languages were maintained by "professionals" they could guarantee that code written on day 1 of the first

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/7/2016 10:14 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > [...] Mind you, those languages were maintained by groups of > competent professionals and not an army of chimpanzees. I will not reply fully to your last message because it was yet again littered with personal insults and an extremely aggressive tone.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:27 AM, wrote: > > Change for the sake of change is bad, no argument there. Change for the > > > sake of progress is not and totally normal. > > > > Can you please specify what kind of progress do see in the `var` keyword > removal? I see only a BC

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

> Change for the sake of change is bad, no argument there. Change for the > sake of progress is not and totally normal. Can you please specify what kind of progress do see in the `var` keyword removal? I see only a BC break. Very best regards, Kubis Pandian-Fowler Od: Fleshgrinder

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 06/03/2016 08:59: I have worked with two other languages for over a decade each, and as these languages were maintained by "professionals" they could guarantee that code written on day 1 of the first year would still be running ten years later. Out of curiosity, which

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 07/03/2016 09:14: That takes brains and discipline, something which appears to be lacking in the PHP community. [...] just because some numpty decides [...] groups of competent professionals and not an army of chimpanzees. Please try to refrain from personal insults.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56dbfdb5.1010...@fleshgrinder.com... On 3/6/2016 7:07 AM, Stephen Coakley wrote: @Tony Marston: you are always saying that "this is "longevity" [...] they will move on to another language" but I do not see such a language, not a single one. There are those who break

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/6/2016 7:07 AM, Stephen Coakley wrote: > That is correct; there are many, many old codebases of many different > languages out there. However, you need to consider in what way such > software is maintained. Let's start with Linux and Apache. Both of those > pieces of software are _not_ in

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Lester Caine" wrote in message news:56dae00f.2030...@lsces.co.uk... On 05/03/16 11:26, Fleshgrinder wrote: PHP being a mess is still one of the most quoted arguments against PHP! > Only if it results in an actual and measurable improvement. Changes > for > "purity" or "consistency" do NOT

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56daf480.7030...@fleshgrinder.com... On 3/5/2016 2:33 PM, Lester Caine wrote: On 05/03/16 11:26, Fleshgrinder wrote: PHP being a mess is still one of the most quoted arguments against PHP! But then again, we are talking about removal and real BC in 6 to 9 years and

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 03/05/2016 12:26 PM, Walter Parker wrote: For software written for other people and for projects that don't have ongoing tech staffs that do tech debt maintenance, they would like to keep old, working code running. Telling them that they must spend money to update the software so that the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > On 3/5/2016 2:33 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > > On 05/03/16 11:26, Fleshgrinder wrote: > >> PHP being a mess is still one of the most quoted arguments against PHP! > >> > Only if it results in an actual and measurable

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/5/2016 2:33 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > On 05/03/16 11:26, Fleshgrinder wrote: >> PHP being a mess is still one of the most quoted arguments against PHP! >> Only if it results in an actual and measurable improvement. Changes for "purity" or "consistency" do NOT fall into this

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 05/03/16 11:26, Fleshgrinder wrote: > PHP being a mess is still one of the most quoted arguments against PHP! > >> > Only if it results in an actual and measurable improvement. Changes for >> > "purity" or "consistency" do NOT fall into this category. > This is your believe and you know that

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/4/2016 10:39 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > wrote in message news:56d86c00.6000...@fleshgrinder.com... >> >> On 3/3/2016 10:34 AM, Tony Marston wrote: >>> If you want to avoid such confusion over alias names then surely that >>> would be an argument against introducing aliases in the first place.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 04/03/16 11:36, Rowan Collins wrote: > Lester Caine wrote on 04/03/2016 11:19: >> My main reason for not taking that brute force approach is actually the >> same. Many of the comment 'var' entries relate to the use of the >> identified var. So changing one without the other just creates more >>

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Lester Caine wrote on 04/03/2016 11:19: My main reason for not taking that brute force approach is actually the same. Many of the comment 'var' entries relate to the use of the identified var. So changing one without the other just creates more problems? It's the documentation style from 15

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 03/03/16 13:24, Rowan Collins wrote: >> Actually my problem is even more simple than that - although it may be >> possible to further filter the lookup for 'var ' ( note the space ) many >> of the results are simply not text that needs changing. > > The script that Colin linked >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56d86c00.6000...@fleshgrinder.com... On 3/3/2016 10:34 AM, Tony Marston wrote: If you want to avoid such confusion over alias names then surely that would be an argument against introducing aliases in the first place. In this case the short array syntax would never have

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/3/2016 6:48 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: > There's a subtle distinction which I may not have explained very well. > What I want is the ability to *selectively* ignore these warnings. For > instance, if I write: > > namespace \Foo\Bar\Baz; > class AwesomenessFactory implements ArrayAccess { >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Fleshgrinder wrote on 03/03/2016 17:32: If there were some way of preventing users writing var in*new* code, I >would be all for it - there is no advantage to doing so, and it adds no >value to have two ways of writing "public". But there is no way for the >engine to distinguish new code from

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/3/2016 6:14 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: > Having no plans to use something doesn't make it a problem. There still > needs to be some actual problem you are solving by removing it. I think in general that it would be helpful to have clear guidelines regarding such topics. They would make

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Fleshgrinder wrote on 03/03/2016 16:53: The fact that there are no plans regarding the old syntax and thus keeping the duplication indefinitely is the actual problem. Having no plans to use something doesn't make it a problem. There still needs to be some actual problem you are solving by

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/3/2016 10:34 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > If you want to avoid such confusion over alias names then surely that > would be an argument against introducing aliases in the first place. In > this case the short array syntax would never have been introduced as the > (only slightly longer) long array

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On Wed, 2016-03-02 at 19:40 +0100, Fleshgrinder wrote: > It showcases what the studies about UI/UX found out about duplicated > behavior (or call it aliasing, multiple choices for the same thing, ...). > > People are confused and we can and should avoid that. Yes, duplication isn't good and we

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Lester Caine wrote on 03/03/2016 13:18: Actually my problem is even more simple than that - although it may be possible to further filter the lookup for 'var ' ( note the space ) many of the results are simply not text that needs changing. The script that Colin linked

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 03/03/16 13:04, Rowan Collins wrote: > Colin O'Dell wrote on 03/03/2016 12:47: >> If you're staying on PHP 5.x or 7.0, no changes would be needed. If >> you're >> upgrading to 7.1+, you would need to either hide deprecation notices or >> take 30 seconds to run that script. > > This isn't

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Colin O'Dell wrote on 03/03/2016 12:47: If you're staying on PHP 5.x or 7.0, no changes would be needed. If you're upgrading to 7.1+, you would need to either hide deprecation notices or take 30 seconds to run that script. This isn't quite true. At the moment, PHP has no mechanism for hiding

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Lester, > The problem with 'var' is that while one should probably > replace them all with public, there is a lot of simple legacy code still > in active use that could take years to 'tidy' 'var' would not be removed until 8.x, so you'd have several years before needing to make code changes.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 03/03/16 09:34, Tony Marston wrote: >> The "var" keyword once emitted an E_STRICT but I guess it was turned off >> again because too many people were complaining as they are now. > > So if people are still using it then surely that is an argument AGAINST > its removal. The underlying problem

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56d73386.3000...@fleshgrinder.com... On 3/2/2016 11:09 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: I think the point was that *the difference between* "var" and "public" was being abused, which wouldn't be possible if there were only one keyword. However, I agree that it's a very weak

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/2/2016 11:09 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > I think the point was that *the difference between* "var" and "public" > was being abused, which wouldn't be possible if there were only one > keyword. > > However, I agree that it's a very weak argument for removal (just as "I > [ab]use 'var' to mean

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 02/03/2016 09:53: wrote in message news:56d5dda6.4080...@fleshgrinder.com... On 3/1/2016 6:34 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: Rowan Collins wrote on 01/03/2016 11:33: Secondly, violating visibility may have repercussions outside actual errors. Incidentally, PHP itself

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56d5dda6.4080...@fleshgrinder.com... On 3/1/2016 6:34 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: Rowan Collins wrote on 01/03/2016 11:33: Secondly, violating visibility may have repercussions outside actual errors. Incidentally, PHP itself encountered this a few years ago, where a

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 3/1/2016 6:34 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: > Rowan Collins wrote on 01/03/2016 11:33: >> >> Secondly, violating visibility may have repercussions outside actual >> errors. > > > Incidentally, PHP itself encountered this a few years ago, where a > release of libxml2 changed internal behaviour that

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Rowan Collins wrote on 01/03/2016 11:33: Secondly, violating visibility may have repercussions outside actual errors. Incidentally, PHP itself encountered this a few years ago, where a release of libxml2 changed internal behaviour that was being relied on for a hack. The result was that

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 01/03/2016 09:32: "Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56d42cd3.6020...@gmail.com... Tony Marston wrote on 29/02/2016 09:55: "James Titcumb" wrote in message news:CAKnqCEY7art1GUWG=pm0wypgqmyp0dq8oxdohgbksgq+o_b...@mail.gmail.com... Incorrect. It *may* be

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 29 February 2016 at 15:25, Tony Marston wrote: > If "var" is automatically translated into "public", and has been since PHP 5 > emerged, and has been documented to behave in this way, then what does it > cost to leave it that way? Answer: NOTHING! Yeah. This is

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Rowan Collins" wrote in message news:56d42cd3.6020...@gmail.com... Tony Marston wrote on 29/02/2016 09:55: "James Titcumb" wrote in message news:CAKnqCEY7art1GUWG=pm0wypgqmyp0dq8oxdohgbksgq+o_b...@mail.gmail.com... On 28 Feb 2016 06:18, "Jakub Kubícek" wrote: I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Tony Marston wrote on 29/02/2016 09:55: "James Titcumb" wrote in message news:CAKnqCEY7art1GUWG=pm0wypgqmyp0dq8oxdohgbksgq+o_b...@mail.gmail.com... On 28 Feb 2016 06:18, "Jakub Kubícek" wrote: I see a difference in its _semantics_. While the `public` modifier

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"James Titcumb" wrote in message news:CAKnqCEY7art1GUWG=pm0wypgqmyp0dq8oxdohgbksgq+o_b...@mail.gmail.com... On 28 Feb 2016 06:18, "Jakub Kubícek" wrote: I see a difference in its _semantics_. While the `public` modifier states anyone can change the property, `var` is

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 28 Feb 2016 06:18, "Jakub Kubíček" wrote: > > I see a difference in its > _semantics_. While the `public` modifier states anyone can change the > property, `var` is useful for marking internal properties which must > be public, but should not be manipulated by simply

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

y Marston >> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal >> Hi Tony, >> >> Thank you so much for your feedback. You make some really good, valid >> points. If I may provide some responses to some of them: >> >>> Where is your proof

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 12:58 PM To: Tony Marston Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal Hi Tony, Thank you so much for your feedback. You make some really good, valid points. If I may provide some responses to some of them: Where is your proof

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56cf439f.2040...@fleshgrinder.com... On 2/25/2016 10:26 AM, Tony Marston wrote: Science shows that it is harmful, let's clean it up! Your "proof" is not scientific, it is just personal opinion. There is no evidence that use of the "var" keyword is harmful in any way.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

> On 18 02 2016, at 20:33, Andrea Faulds wrote: > > Hi Colin, > > Colin O'Dell wrote: >> I'd like to propose an RFC to deprecate and eventually remove the "var" >> keyword. > > I don't have a strong opinion on that, I guess I'm in favour. It seems like a > fairly harmless

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi all, On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 3:10 AM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > On 2/25/2016 10:26 AM, Tony Marston wrote: >>> Science shows that it is harmful, let's clean it up! >> >> Your "proof" is not scientific, it is just personal opinion. There is no >> evidence that use of the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 2/25/2016 10:26 AM, Tony Marston wrote: >> Science shows that it is harmful, let's clean it up! > > Your "proof" is not scientific, it is just personal opinion. There is no > evidence that use of the "var" keyword is harmful in any way. I think the diverged from talking about the "var"

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

wrote in message news:56cdeb49.5040...@fleshgrinder.com... On 2/22/2016 9:12 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: Hi! Hey there. :) On 2/22/2016 9:12 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: Old cellphones were shipped with a user manual that contained precise instructions on how to deal with the installed

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On 2/22/2016 9:12 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! Hey there. :) On 2/22/2016 9:12 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: >> Old cellphones were shipped with a user manual that contained precise >> instructions on how to deal with the installed OS. > > You don't really need a whole manual to know two

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi! > Old cellphones were shipped with a user manual that contained precise > instructions on how to deal with the installed OS. You don't really need a whole manual to know two things are the same. You only need one line from that manual. It's a minimal effort, well within expected of what may

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

-1 I would prefer not to break source compatibility without a real reason. Thanks. Dmitry. From: Colin O'Dell <colinod...@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 22:10 To: internals@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var k

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi! 2016-02-18 15:10 GMT-04:00 Colin O'Dell : > Hello everyone, > > I'd like to propose an RFC to deprecate and eventually remove the "var" > keyword. > > My understanding is that this keyword was kept in PHP 5 for > backwards-compatibility with PHP 4. However, it's been 9

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2/19/2016 9:49 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > I think you are trying for an argument of "I agree with some guys > that I consider being an authority so you should agree with me". It > works only if these guys are established as unerring God-like

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi! > I would not say that the information that the Nielsen Norman Group > puts on their website falls in the category of "somebody putting > something on a website". I think you are trying for an argument of "I agree with some guys that I consider being an authority so you should agree with

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2/18/2016 10:53 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > This is all generic advice which is nice and well if we would be > designing language anew. As it is, we are not - we already have > lots of code using var. For code not using var, removing var

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 1:10 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > "Walter Parker" wrote in message > news:CAMPTd_AHyV2d0_Saq=kpvhdzkkcmgkxav8tnt4hk9sdngkc...@mail.gmail.com... > >> >> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Sebastian Bergmann >> wrote: >> >> On

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

""Colin O'Dell"" wrote in message news:cajarsptqpkz9xsp6jf3gpm7hn39kdqpxcx4r5yn8hsohwo1...@mail.gmail.com... What are your reasons for this proposal? I can think of multiple reasons why this might not be a good idea, but the only reason that pops to mind for getting rid of it is to make

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

"Walter Parker" wrote in message news:CAMPTd_AHyV2d0_Saq=kpvhdzkkcmgkxav8tnt4hk9sdngkc...@mail.gmail.com... On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: On 02/18/2016 02:10 PM, Colin O'Dell wrote: I'd like to propose an RFC to deprecate and eventually

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

> On 02/18/2016 02:10 PM, Colin O'Dell wrote: >> >> I'd like to propose an RFC to deprecate and eventually remove the "var" >> keyword. > I'm tepidly +1 this. It's not hurting anything, but var's time has past. Let's deprecate it, and in four year's time as we're starting to talk PHP8, we can

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi! > Although it is true that an upgrade from PHP 7 to 8 will involve more > work, it is not true that it does not hurt anyone. This is a well > known problem in design: > > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/reduce-redundancydecrease-duplicated-de > sign-decisions/ This is all generic advice

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi, Le 18/02/2016 20:10, Colin O'Dell a écrit : Hello everyone, I'd like to propose an RFC to deprecate and eventually remove the "var" keyword. My understanding is that this keyword was kept in PHP 5 for backwards-compatibility with PHP 4. However, it's been 9 years since PHP 4 was

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi! > Although it is true that an upgrade from PHP 7 to 8 will involve more > work, it is not true that it does not hurt anyone. This is a well > known problem in design: > > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/reduce-redundancydecrease-duplicated-de > sign-decisions/ This is all generic advice

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2/18/2016 10:32 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > >> I'd like to propose an RFC to deprecate and eventually remove the >> "var" keyword. > > Don't see much point - it is the same as public and doesn't hurt > anyone. Removing it does not

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

Hi! > I'd like to propose an RFC to deprecate and eventually remove the "var" > keyword. Don't see much point - it is the same as public and doesn't hurt anyone. Removing it does not improve any code in any way, just makes it harder to upgrade. -- Stas Malyshev smalys...@gmail.com -- PHP

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC Proposal] var keyword deprecation/removal

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2/18/2016 9:58 PM, Colin O'Dell wrote: >> What are your reasons for this proposal? >> >> I can think of multiple reasons why this might not be a good >> idea, but the only reason that pops to mind for getting rid of it >> is to make PHP work

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