[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

On Oct 29, 8:03 am, Robert Casto wrote: > At the risk of starting another flame attractor, what would use suggest to > use for the desktop? > > I have the need to build an application for doing some ecommerce work. Lots > of network interaction, but it needs database and reports. I would recommen

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

Yes, I had forgotten about WebStart. I would still have to store data on their local drive and deal with backups, upgrading the data, and other issues. I'm not as strong at Swing as I am with the web technologies so perhaps that is why I lean toward HTML5. The upgrade path is there for WebStart, bu

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

Hmm, its late and my last post was faulty. Clearly, the first link indicates a harmony package name (my code blindness read it as an android package due to the href). However, the current svn apparently does not contain the class: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/harmony/enhanced/java/trunk/classlib/mo

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

This class appears to be an Android class, NOT a Harmony/Apache class http://www.netmite.com/android/mydroid/1.6/dalvik/libcore/support/src/test/java/org/apache/harmony/security/tests/support/cert/PolicyNodeImpl.java (package org.apache.harmony.security.tests.support.cert;) http://hg.openjdk.java

Re: [The Java Posse] Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

Another +1 forI server-side frameworks not generating client-side views, but just feeding data. However, the other things frameworks do remain valuable (routing, marshalling, etc.). Mwanji -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To po

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

On Oct 28, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Robert Casto wrote: > At the risk of starting another flame attractor, what would use suggest to > use for the desktop? > > > So I keep going back to the HTML5/Server option since it is easier to > develop, but more important, I can deal with customer issues much

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

Also note the absence of generics in the Apache version. This is something you would lose, coming from a class file. On Oct 28, 2:49 pm, markmahieu wrote: > The Android version looks strikingly like code that's been decompiled > from a class file, to me.  All local variables seem to use naming >

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

Yeah looks like someone used jad. Just ran it and at first glance it appears to produce the same variable names, loop transformations and constant expansion. Mark On Oct 28, 9:49 pm, markmahieu wrote: > The Android version looks strikingly like code that's been decompiled > from a class file,

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

At the risk of starting another flame attractor, what would use suggest to use for the desktop? I have the need to build an application for doing some ecommerce work. Lots of network interaction, but it needs database and reports. I could build everything on a server where I have full control ove

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

The Android version looks strikingly like code that's been decompiled from a class file, to me. All local variables seem to use naming that's very formulaic, and unusual for a Java developer to choose (with such consistency anyway). Then there's the fact that the ANY_POLICY constant is defined, b

[The Java Posse] Re: good way to compile java to native code on mac?

Woops, I really meant to say JSmooth, but it seems to only work on Windows. Nevermind... On Oct 28, 1:33 pm, ADRA wrote: > jinvoke? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.c

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

On Oct 28, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Rob Ross wrote: > > On Oct 28, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Chris Adamson wrote: > >> Dalibor just tweeted a status update on the bsd-port project from >> Landon Fuller, in the context of whether JKoala could/should be >> integrated with it at some point. >> >> http://mail.op

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

> This sounds very similar to Eclipse's RAP project Just from looking at the diagrams, RAP sounds more like vaadin, where widgets live on the server and send HTML diffs back/forth. I'm skeptical this would make an effective AJAX platform as any events that do nifty th

[The Java Posse] Re: good way to compile java to native code on mac?

jinvoke? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

> Sounds to me like a FAR nicer environment for > programming a GUI than swing, though not quite as nice as JavaFX. Really? I mean web UI's are fine and dandy for what they are, but what they aren't are easy to develop rich desktop applications. You can create a stupidly beautiful HTML5 UI that l

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 21:18, CKoerner wrote: > > Wasn't JavaFX suppose to be the rebirth, the savior, of Java on the > Desktop? > JavaFX was supposed to be lots of things. It never really managed to be any of them. // Ben -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

I truly couldn't agree more! Biologists have shown us time and time again that monocultures are far too vulnerable to external threats. Your chosen platform may be OSX, or .NET, or it may be the JVM; it doesn't really matter... Ultimately, trying to keep out alternative languages is a doomed st

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

Wasn't JavaFX suppose to be the rebirth, the savior, of Java on the Desktop? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to javap

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

> On top of that, Jobs has this obsession with "purity of tools" that has him > convinced that the only way to write good Mac OS applications should be to > use tools provided by Apple exclusively. Not strictly true, given that MonoTouch is being quite successful in letting C# devs write apps, wit

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Rob Ross wrote: > If that's the case, exactly *what* threat does Java currently pose for the > consumer desktop, specifically Apple's desktop? > > The fact that developers can write Java apps on Windows or

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

Truth be told, if it wasn't for Bill Gates, Apple *would* have been dead. That's a historical fact [http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/ 2009/08/dayintech_0806/] Somehow I don't see either Billy boy, nor father Jobs, jumping in with a bag of $ for this one! On Oct 28, 8:35 pm, Rob Ross wrote: > T

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Rob Ross wrote: > If that's the case, exactly *what* threat does Java currently pose for the > consumer desktop, specifically Apple's desktop? The fact that developers can write Java apps on Windows or Linux and have these magically run on Apple hardware withou

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Rob Ross wrote: > This reminds me of the constant "Apple is dead" threads one used to hear > starting in the mid 90's. > > You don't hear that anymore though, do you? :) > You don't, but Java on the desktop is still dead, and it will take more than a Steve Jobs

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot > wrote: > You're misrepresenting what apple is doing (or misunderstanding). > Apple isn't trying to bash java > > Steve Jobs in 2007: > > “Java’s not worth building in. Nobody uses

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

This reminds me of the constant "Apple is dead" threads one used to hear starting in the mid 90's. You don't hear that anymore though, do you? :) Rob On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:00 AM, clay wrote: > I'd summarize: > > - Java has never been a major platform for consumer desktop apps. This > really

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

On Oct 28, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Chris Adamson wrote: > Dalibor just tweeted a status update on the bsd-port project from > Landon Fuller, in the context of whether JKoala could/should be > integrated with it at some point. > > http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/bsd-port-dev/2010-October/001355.

Re: [The Java Posse] Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Mark Volkmann wrote: > I agree! I prefer implementing services that return JSON and creating > HTML views of that data using jQuery in the browser. I recommend > running JSLint on all your JavaScript code. It has saved me a lot of > debugging time. > Thank you for

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

You might take a look at Grails and Spring ROO, both of which have GWT plugins for them. Cheers, Mark card.ly: On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Alexey wrote: > Agreed, but let's keep in mind that things happened that allowed us to > let go of many of the framework

[The Java Posse] Re: Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

Agreed, but let's keep in mind that things happened that allowed us to let go of many of the frameworks many of us were initially drawn to. Firstly, there was the move to stronger standardization of things like DOM, CSS, and HTML and better implementations in the browsers, particularly the welcome

Re: [The Java Posse] Does the Android SDK partly use Swing?

> On 10/28/2010 06:43 PM, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: >> Android uses neither AWT/Swing nor SWT. As Casper points out, >> HierarchyViewer uses Swing but it's an external tool. > I suppose that's why I wrote "Android SDK" and not "Android" :-) > Thanks for the confirmation. Dont forget the android tool i

Re: [The Java Posse] Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > But I don't like JavaScript (*) at > all and I wouldn't like to use it in any way. I used to feel the same way. Reading "JavaScript: The Good Parts" changed my mind. -- R. Mark Volkmann Object Computing, Inc. -- You received this me

Re: [The Java Posse] Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

I have been developing web apps this way for a while and enjoy it very much. No more JSF, thank you (although, as with everything, there is a place for that, too) On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Fabrizio Giudici < fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > On 10/28/2010 07:02 PM, Mark Volkmann wr

Re: [The Java Posse] Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

On 10/28/2010 07:02 PM, Mark Volkmann wrote: I agree! I prefer implementing services that return JSON and creating HTML views of that data using jQuery in the browser. I recommend running JSLint on all your JavaScript code. It has saved me a lot of debugging time. Architectural speaking, only

Re: [The Java Posse] Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:39 AM, clay wrote: > Five years ago, there were intense debates of web frameworks. There > were Java framework wars among Struts vs JSF vs Tapestry vs Wicket vs > Spring vs etc along with the the prominent non-Java frameworks such as > PHP, ASP.NET, Rails, etc. > > Recen

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > You're misrepresenting what apple is doing (or misunderstanding). > Apple isn't trying to bash java > Steve Jobs in 2007 : “Java’s not worth building in. No

Re: [The Java Posse] Does the Android SDK partly use Swing?

On 10/28/2010 06:43 PM, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: Android uses neither AWT/Swing nor SWT. As Casper points out, HierarchyViewer uses Swing but it's an external tool. I suppose that's why I wrote "Android SDK" and not "Android" :-) Thanks for the confirmation. -- f.g. -- You received this message b

Re: [The Java Posse] Does the Android SDK partly use Swing?

Android uses neither AWT/Swing nor SWT. As Casper points out, HierarchyViewer uses Swing but it's an external tool. -- Cédric On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:38 AM, Fabrizio Giudici < fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > I supposed it was all running on SWT, but I see also swing-worker and the >

[The Java Posse] Are Traditional Server-Side Web Frameworks Dead?

Five years ago, there were intense debates of web frameworks. There were Java framework wars among Struts vs JSF vs Tapestry vs Wicket vs Spring vs etc along with the the prominent non-Java frameworks such as PHP, ASP.NET, Rails, etc. Recently, I've been working on rich web applications that use:

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > Good point. If I had the time and the expertise, I'd love to write a > library that lets you deploy apps as native executables on all major > platforms, containing a webkit with some very basically moddable > chrome around it (logo, tit

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

Agree on all counts about the myths surrounding Dvorak. Another negative aspect that is often overlooked is that the Dvorak keyboard was designed to write English text, not coding, and as a consequence, you will find common coding characters such as numbers, parentheses and other symbols located ve

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

On 10/28/2010 11:11 AM, phil swenson wrote: Your recourse would be to sell mac apps directly rather than the app store, this is allowed on the Mac app store model. This is how I think the iPhone should work too. It's ridiculous that the app store is the only distribution method. I'd guess that

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > > Also, if you think someone who drops $2000 on a notebook is going to > be satisfied with iOS, you're delusional. If you think Apple is going > to drop their mac platform, which, if they spun it off as separate > company, would be some

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

I'd summarize: - Java has never been a major platform for consumer desktop apps. This really isn't changing, unless you consider Android. - Java desktop is very successful for dev tools and thousands of niche custom vertical desktop apps. This really isn't changing either. - Could you replace Java

[The Java Posse] Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

Dalibor just tweeted a status update on the bsd-port project from Landon Fuller, in the context of whether JKoala could/should be integrated with it at some point. http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/bsd-port-dev/2010-October/001355.html It's in response to Rob, who likes the one-focused-devel

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

And this also happens: http://blogs.sun.com/dagastine/entry/apache_harmony_thanks_for_the "We are now making the necessary steps to give back our code changes to Apache Harmony. The new TreeMap is included in JDK 6 Update 6 Performance Release which is available for download at http://java.sun.c

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

What if you write the "front-end" part of it in GWT? Oh, the perversity... Could work nicely though. Alexey From: CKoerner To: The Java Posse Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 10:43:23 AM Subject: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along." >> We

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

I'd like to use JNLP, but it's overly picky about which server it comes from. We host our client software both on our website and in the webpages that come with every device that we sell. If a user installed from the device they bought, they could not receive updates automatically from the websit

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On 10/28/2010 05:17 PM, Craig Kelley wrote: Another anecdotal Swing story: Our company has a JNLP application built on top of JMF that allows users of any platform to preview media files served up via a servlet -- that is, every platform apart from OSX 10.7. I can't imagine asking a user to in

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On Oct 28, 8:53 am, Mark Volkmann wrote: > I don't believe Swing is used as infrequently as you seem to imply. I > see it used quite often for applications developed to be run inside a > single company. I have developed many such applications and two of > them were written this year. They are in

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/28/2010 05:13 PM, Casper Bang wrote: Here's a twist: I can't recall OpenJDK code ever using hungarian notation Exactly what I stumpled over too... kind of makes you wonder that it was an outside contribution. Still, in the grand scheme of things (something like 17.000 unique classes in the

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/28/2010 05:06 PM, Craig Kelley wrote: That's fairly damning... At a minimum, whoever wrote the Harmony version copied the field definition block verbatim. OTOH, the comment says that 4/5 fields are defined by an RFC, so it's quite obvious that people would declare them in the same order

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

> Here's a twist: I can't recall OpenJDK code ever using hungarian > notation Exactly what I stumpled over too... kind of makes you wonder that it was an outside contribution. Still, in the grand scheme of things (something like 17.000 unique classes in the JDK) this seems more like an oversight o

Re: [The Java Posse] Caciocavallo was Re: "JKoala is an open source project aimed at porting AWT / Swing under Mac OS X / Cocoa"

On 10/27/2010 07:54 PM, Rob Ross wrote: I actually went to a BOF at JavaOne2010 to specifically find out if Caciocavallo could be used to port OpenJDK to the Mac. The short answer is "no." The main use-case of this project is to make it easy to port AWT/Java2D to mobile and embedded devices.

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

That's fairly damning... At a minimum, whoever wrote the Harmony version copied the field definition block verbatim. On Oct 28, 8:46 am, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: > Here is the original source, I suppose: > > http://www.docjar.com/html/api/sun/security/provider/certpath/PolicyN... -- You received

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Does the Android SDK partly use Swing?

On 10/28/2010 05:00 PM, Casper Bang wrote: I think the only real Swing application in the SDK is the HierarchyViewer (uses swing-worker). I presume it's also the thing that uses the NetBeans Visual Library for the graphs. When I first ran it, it smelled a lot of the VL, but I supposed it was a

[The Java Posse] Re: Does the Android SDK partly use Swing?

I think the only real Swing application in the SDK is the HierarchyViewer (uses swing-worker). The JFreeChart/JCommon is probably used by openide-visuals which again is used by DDMS... but I think it uses it through an SWT/AWT bridge. On Oct 28, 3:38 pm, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > I supposed it wa

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/28/2010 04:46 PM, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote: Here is the original source, I suppose: http://www.docjar.com/html/api/sun/security/provider/certpath/PolicyNodeImpl.java.html It's not Hungarian notation, just using 'm' to prefix fields. I presume the judge can only compile Java 1.4 code, as the

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/28/2010 04:46 PM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: On 10/28/2010 04:42 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: But, if true (and while the difference does increase if you read further in, its undeniable that these are eerily similar to each other), this would indicate an extremely interesting legal test of

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > It's better in that (A) If you don't do any swing stuff (and who > does?), this news is irrelevant I don't believe Swing is used as infrequently as you seem to imply. I see it used quite often for applications developed to be run insi

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

Here is the original source, I suppose: http://www.docjar.com/html/api/sun/security/provider/certpath/PolicyNodeImpl.java.html It's not Hungarian notation, just using 'm' to prefix fields. -- Cédric On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > Thanks for finding that article

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/28/2010 04:42 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: But, if true (and while the difference does increase if you read further in, its undeniable that these are eerily similar to each other), this would indicate an extremely interesting legal test of open source principles. Precisely what's I'm imm

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

the blog post simplifies the approach a bit. We're using EXTGWT as the UI client, so for development purposes it's a Java desktop app running in JavaScript/Java... On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 7:43 AM, CKoerner wrote: > >> We're currently working on a desktop app using a java backend and an > extjs >

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

A good approach would also be the DJProject [1] Ruben [1] http://djproject.sourceforge.net/ns/index.html On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Neil Bartlett wrote: > Very interesting idea. Isn't this basically how Palm's WebOS works? > > You can already do something quite close to this in SWT. The

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

>> We're currently working on a desktop app using a java backend and an extjs frontend with an embedded browser.<< So isn't this really a JavaScript desktop app and not a Java desktop app? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To po

[The Java Posse] Re: With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

Thanks for finding that article, Fabrizio. Here's a twist: I can't recall OpenJDK code ever using hungarian notation, whereas android code definitely does. I have no idea where PolicyNodeImpl.java is in the OpenJDK sources, I couldn't find it (god, the hg web interface sucks). So, where's that fro

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

Very interesting idea. Isn't this basically how Palm's WebOS works? You can already do something quite close to this in SWT. The built-in Browser control uses WebKit by default on a number of platforms, and you can use ordinary SWT controls for the surrounding chrome. Neil On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 a

[The Java Posse] good way to compile java to native code on mac?

I've been looking at xmlvm to create objectivec code out of the java code we have. Was wondering if there is another alternative on Mac to get your java byte code bundled up - gcj seems to be problematic on mac or am I wrong here? (subject change due to thread hijacking). On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 7

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

Good point. If I had the time and the expertise, I'd love to write a library that lets you deploy apps as native executables on all major platforms, containing a webkit with some very basically moddable chrome around it (logo, title name, some buttons, not much more), which starts a jetty server, a

Re: [The Java Posse] With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/28/2010 03:50 PM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: So, they are not talking (only) of implementing the specs, but of code being _directly_ copied. I'd be deeply surprised by that, because it would have been a blatant error by Apache, which I think is very competent and careful about this sort o

Re: [The Java Posse] With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

On 10/28/2010 03:19 PM, Les Stroud wrote: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9193538/Oracle_Google_directly_copied_our_Java_code It looks like oracle needed IBM's assurance that they would not get involved. Once they had that, they are expanding their lawsuit from fairly weak patent violati

[The Java Posse] Does the Android SDK partly use Swing?

I supposed it was all running on SWT, but I see also swing-worker and the NetBeans Visual Library in the libs. Can somebody confirm? Mistral:/workarea/Applications/android-sdk-linux_x86/tools/lib> pwd /workarea/Applications/android-sdk-linux_x86/tools/lib Mistral:/workarea/Applications/android-s

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

We're currently working on a desktop app using a java backend and an extjs frontend with an embedded browser. It's more of a business app but it seems to work quite well. It looks good out of the box, the components are feature rich and the developers are already familiar with the concepts. The app

[The Java Posse] With IBM out of the way, Oracle goes full frontal against Google -- with Harmony

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9193538/Oracle_Google_directly_copied_our_Java_code It looks like oracle needed IBM's assurance that they would not get involved. Once they had that, they are expanding their lawsuit from fairly weak patent violations to intellectual property theft. The cla

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

On Oct 27, 6:21 pm, CKoerner wrote: > But then I think of Eclipse/Netbeans and I wonder. Could you write > those in say, Javascript w/Canvas (thinking Bespin), dash of platform > specific C++ for bottlenecks? Yes. > Or maybe in Adobe Air? As dead as java desktop is. > What does the future real

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Episode #327 : Least effort code run

Other languages do provide an in-context REPL, not just a completely separate shell. Erlang and Common Lisp do that, as far as I know, and probably many other languages. It would be nice if the IDE's debugger allowed an in-context REPL, and even an out-of-context one. I honestly end up using sim

[The Java Posse] Re: Email from Jobs re Java on OS-X

Let's shoot down some urban myths. The keyboard is not ineffective. On the contrary, it is amazingly _EFFECTIVE_. The sheer amount of complicated data manipulation an expert can apply using just a keyboard is mind-blowing, and other input methods, even the exotic ones (multitouch, voice, focus tra

[The Java Posse] Re: Episode #327 : Least effort code run

Couldn't agree more with this. My advice to all java programmers: Take a week to become an ace at your preferred IDE's debugger feature. Learn it inside and out. It's a gigantic timesaver, and gives you at least twice that vaunted "productivity boost" that REPL language advocates keep talking about

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

The CCTV app I work on is used on Windows, Linux, Solaris and OS X. It's not in-house only, at all, and does get used by non-technical people. On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > Even with "most of" I doubt you're right. Point-by-Point: > > 1. Even if NetBeans had 100%

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

Even with "most of" I doubt you're right. Point-by-Point: 1. Even if NetBeans had 100% of the IDE market, not that much changed. As I already wrote in the OP, NetBeans runs just fine on non-apple JVMs on macs. A little bit of spit and polish to deal with the new X11.app based chrome would be a fin

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

You're misrepresenting what apple is doing (or misunderstanding). Apple isn't trying to bash java - they are trying to force all apps seen by apple consumers to be either vanilla web OR apple-controlled CoreX/Cocoa. client-side Java is just one of the many casualties of this process, but server-sid

[The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs. Java: Nothing to see here, move along: Eclipse and NetBeans run just fine on OpenJDK.

Why? Folks keep saying this but I simply don't understand why. It's at the same time better and worse than what you're saying, but mostly you're just plain wrong. It's better in that (A) If you don't do any swing stuff (and who does?), this news is irrelevant, and (B) If you *DO* do swing stuff,

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

The lack of MPEG-4, H.264, CD and DVD-writing support, etc., bothers me. Swing also suffers in reputation because of the programs that use its default look and feel instead of the system look and feel. I uninstalled Java on my brother-in-law's laptop this morning because he didn't know why he had

[The Java Posse] Re: "Java Desktop is Dead, move along."

Just one data point. I proposed a session at a UK conference five years ago entitled "Is Desktop Java Really Dead?" It was rejected with the answer "yes" I love Swing. I'm writing a lovely Swing app for a client right now, with a custom look and feel, developed on Mac but targeted at Windows. It'

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: ScalaDBTest 0.1

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