Ok...I have a friend who was going through my software and he got to a
point and he was like; ...yea...he thinks a good software should have
little or less clicks for the user to achieve an operation. it was really
nice and he said Google has their philosophy for software development and
am
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:20 AM, Kevin Wright wrote:
> Its a bit like knowing English. Sure, there are more logical
>
>> languages, even languages which allow you to express yourself in fewer
>> words. But English is 'good enough' and in this case ubuqitous.
>>
>
> Out of Hungarian, German, Frenc
Please don't generalize from one member to the community. I think that the
remark was unfortunate. The introduction of several new languages on the
JVM is a good thing, not something to be scoffed at.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse"
re growing
rapidly. I did not intend to attach any deeper interpretation than this.
Cheers
-- Martin
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/javapos
idea what they
are measuring.
-- Martin
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/javaposse/-/cklns72YlB0J.
To post to this group, send emai
the current Java 6
implementation for OS X. I was a bit worried that Apple was really
forgetting about the development community in general, but this makes
things all look a bit nicer
- Martin
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse"
Folks, I wish you happy scaling.
I will continue to listen to the podcast but stop reading the group as
the value I get out of reading has dropped drastically.
Maybe, will check back in a few months.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because
Bye, bye!
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
or not turning a thread into trash) I will
somewhat stop following the javaposse google group.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this gro
g to convince C++ programmers telling them the language
is too old and does not move forward.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send
Java 6. As it seems that many don't
know how to do it, I have put together a post on my blog (for the case
you are interested):
http://it-tactics.blogspot.com/2010/09/dynamic-method-invocation-in-java-6.html
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this me
find to be bugs in the underlying software I am using. Take
the time it needs to deliver the awesome stuff.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group,
I think, now we finally got the result that nearly every discussion
turns into lately: Java vs Scala...
I say goodbye for this thread - at least after reading that people
prefer to use vim or emacs rather than a real IDE just for the sake of
doing Scala...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com
vity
> is not a goal, time spent typing is such a small portion of programming that
> there's really no benefit in just reducing keystrokes. On the other hand,
> comprehensibility and flexibility are very important - for all the reasons
> stated above. If brevity goes hand in ha
even I don't see many other options!
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from th
ut not done yet - however I read a
little about it and others were satisfied with this).
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to
always
> having heavily pushed and designed around using a GUI creator? Maybe
> that does make laying things out easier but I think it may make people
> gloss over whether the actual UI classes are well designed because
> many use the UI designer to the point they don't deal with th
Just a few days ago I listened to another podcast's episode that I
thought of a few times while listening to javaposse #321,
so I consider this very related and therefore I want to share the
link: http://techcast.chariotsolutions.com/index.php?post_id=634076
--
Martin Wildam
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 15:31, Josh Berry wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Wildam Martin wrote:
>> Solving end-user problems is far more important than learning crazy
>> new programming paradigms.
> Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it appears to be saying "
g crazy
new programming paradigms.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group,
I thought the mushroom season for this year is over ;-) - but season
for new programming languages seams to be everlasting...
For the language freak folks - here is yet another language you can learn:
http://newspeaklanguage.org/
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You
the longer Java loop is valid. How partition is implemented is
irrelevant. It's like complaining about the code style of the author
of the compiler you are using. And, I accept the argument that
idiomatic Scala does break with quite a few Java conventions; it's not
the same language, after al
torage API.
That sounds interesting - never heard about the ODATA before - should
have a look, thanks.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this
, no application server
(tomcat/glassfish/...) required. Best example are router or printer
web configuration interfaces: They need to be plain simple and I have
some use cases where I would like to do web applications in the same
way.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
exactly.
It was mentioned in the episode that "Swing just works" - and this is
very important for me. A reason why I think twice before designing an
application as a web application.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subs
ot;compile on save" and "track java dependencies"?
What is with "compile projects on classpath"?
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse&quo
Oh, and on the libraries node in the project properties tree I have an
option "Build projects on classpath" - should that be enabled or not?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 16:40, Wildam Martin wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> it is starting to become a headache for me. I have some projects t
tion".
Primary question: How should I have my project settings for "compile
on save" and "Track Java dependencies" - and should I rather create a
library in netbeans adding the jars in dist and link directly to that
instead of linking directly the project? (I am doing Java S
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 14:19, Wildam Martin wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 13:20, Casper Bang wrote:
>> ...as well as Larry's yachts. :)
>
> I was just thinking of changing profession and looking for a job at
> Larry's yacht, but unfortunately first of all they
L/OA.jsp?page=/oracle/apps/irc/candidateSelfService/webui/VisHomePG&_ri=821&OAPB=IRC_BRAND&_ti=1219221697&OAMC=1053761_30_0&menu=Y&oaMenuLevel=1&oapc=4&oas=tR1Ck_GwSRxddJhKsSKApw..
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this mes
gle software
product. So I would focus on doing implementations for a sum of other
companies trying to achieve the same goal in the IT world - helping
others to really get more innovative and productive and to get the
most out of the IT infrastructure and services.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.
There is talked only about layoffs at Oracle, but they also told that
they are hiring. Where do the new people go to work? On JavaFX? Oracle
Database? - Or what?
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
o nice.
And BTW: There are some widgets that do not really consider different
look and feels - so you should also pay attention to what widgets you
use.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
way - GUI is
always in the same way - no room for new usability ideas.
It is far more useful these days having a rich set of libraries than a
RAD tool that again puts a lot of constraints on you.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you
tself a lot of updates have been released recently (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history)
The products I use most are (apart from Java): NetBeans, MySQL (5.5
came out in July but I am still using 5.1), VirtualBox, Open Office
(3.3 beta already available). - All those are vital!
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:45, Kevin Wright wrote:
> Obviously this is totally dependant on how everything turns out, and what
> Oracle really wants here, but I think that Martin has historical precedent
> behind his arguments.
I have seen for myself and customers (not only our own
that is why there are so many around trying to find work (in the
meaning of finding somebody to sue)...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this gr
rather than drastically changing
> things.
Of course not in the short-term. But in the long term things are
different. You can just choose to create the next new database not on
Oracle and five years later world may look different.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
Yo
.
Maybe Larry and stock holders are thinking short-term because they
already have enough money.
Stock market immediately shows that the reputation of Oracle goes down
- if there can be a logical conclusion of the movements in stock
market...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwilda
out, what people are using to make it (and if
it is just wheels and metal).
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@goog
n the - mental or material - recycle bin) again and again.
But seriously: Who has the time and money for that? The more I am
trying to learn the less I feel to get things done.
Lately I tend to sympathize with Carl - focus on writing code.
For the rewrite: I would do that only if the old piece really
please let's not play the drama "poor Google open minded guys
> versus the arrogant Larry Ellison" or I'll start laughing. It's just
> business as usual between healthy corporates, unfortunately.
Yes, you could be easily completely right.
--
Martin Wildam
http
in the
IT business. Many left due to different kinds of frustration.
News like this do not help this profession to get more attractive again...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java P
nguages I look, there are other fears. Somehow despite the many
existing languages people manage it to make it all bad so that there
is no other language left than C(++).
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:16, Kirk wrote:
> apparently this is implemented in HTML 5. http://muro.deviantart.com/
> If so, it might not matter that the iPad doesn't support flash.
http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/10aug/uf014211.gif
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.c
ty classes final...
It is a long time I do plan to use findbugs but so far didn't have the
time. That said, it seems that more and more findbug features find
their way into NetBeans and by updating NetBeans I also get more and
more of findbugs.
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 10:52, Wildam Martin
ven forgot about Josh Bloch's recommendations on inheritence - maybe
I should read again through it, it's has been quite a while since I
read the book.
Thank you very much.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed
class and overwrites that public method,
shouldn't then the overwritten variant of this method be called? And
then everything would be fine I think.
So I do not really understand why NetBeans would like me to change this...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You rec
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 08:20, Wildam Martin wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 02:01, Eugene Ho wrote:
>> Which Update 21 - b06 company name "Oracle" or b07 company name
>> "Sun" ? I have b06 and my Matisse forms are loading on NB 6.9.1
> build 1.6.0_21
ut I didn't know that there are several builds released.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com.
yway
created. For the plugins where they are distributable programs I can
do it the way described above and at the same time I have some
information output for those who try to run it standalone.
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 10:26, Wildam Martin wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I noticed yesterday, that for
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 15:42, Wildam Martin wrote:
> I upgraded NetBeans from 6.9 to 6.9.1 and Java to jdk1.6.0_21 on my
> Ubuntu box (development machine) and now I experienced a serious
> problem: NetBeans matisse (Swing GUI WYSIWYG editor) is not loading -
> even simplest - dial
the only one experiencing this?
I can't imagine such a serious bug not discovered until release...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group
Java although I am not one of those doing Java for a decade and I
don't have much "legacy" Java code as most others.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" gro
) is not a good
idea.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, sen
t
enough to master it, "enlightment" is limited to those. ;-)
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroup
well regarded for its sophistication.
>
> So "Esoteric Nonsense" surely refers to "sophisticated stuff known by
> enlightened people"
:-))) - OK, where are the 10 people that will be able to master it? ;-)
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You
all dependencies along when deploying my plugins.
How can I bring NetBeans 6.9 to behave as 6.8 again? - I searched
through the options but did not find anything related.
Thanks in advance for any helpful comment.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this
get reminded
> of Windows bloatware.
Agree. Thank you very much for your explanations again!
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send
in use.
Sometimes (when many apps open) I also often put it to suspend - also
saves a lot of power (and I guess more than any other tool can save
when running).
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
I am about to try this but I can't find any hint in the documentation
if this can be turned easily on and off - just for the case I get
problems after installation.
Can this be easily completely turned off (and back on) if installed?
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mw
porting. Basically I don't have the time to
learn something just for fun. When I learn a new programming language
it must be by aiming to use it on a daily basis in the near future. I
am not yet convinced that Scala would be the next big language for me.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.goog
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 13:39, Kevin Wright wrote:
> On 3 August 2010 09:41, Wildam Martin wrote:
>> 1. Strangely too many different possibly approaches to implement the same
>> thing.
>> I like to have options, but where it makes sense. I mean, I already
>> have two
e a language for another when they
finally got experts.
> -Most Importantly: I think that Scala got a lot right, and while it may
> not be the successor to Java, whatever the successor is, will have a lot in
> common with Scala.
Agree. Maybe some things need to be removed
secondary elements (I have
discussed that in an earlier thread already).
...and I wonder why I am again in a thread of the kind (discussion
about programming languages) I already decided to ignore for the next
5 years... - maybe because of the provocating title...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.goo
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 00:32, jahid wrote:
> Anyone knows any better+popular+free blogging site? I was trying to
> use www.blogger.com, but does not seems like they take care of code.
> So the code appears really bad on the output.
One option is also to use http://pastebin.com/
-
ernate, Spring and others and already
introduce a whole lot of abstraction (and code + xml and/or
annotations) without getting anything done.
Best regards, Martin.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this g
first time you test a class. The first time you must run all
tests of a class and only then you can repeat a single test again and
again (if it fails and you are in to fix the problem).
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed
lopers using different languages arguing against each other, I
think: Is there really room for that kind of fight?
That said, I sometimes feel guilty myself...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group
lly a boring approach, since it's trial and error and there's
> always the risk that you run into a showstopper problem.
I can imagine...
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Jav
x27;t know if still
applicable)?
But basically I would just like to know the limitations of Android as
I expect customers asking what could be done on the Android.
--
Martin Wildam
http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google G
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 15:15, Christian Catchpole
wrote:
> Around my bed, I hire out of
> work actors to re-enact the members of the Java Posse.. but that bit
> is a bit creepy so I won't go into any more detail...
Aha! I guess you have stolen the hat...
--
Martin Wildam
--
noticed that they need an archiving solution in reality.
Maybe this is also a reason why the agile way got so popular - as
customers often don't know either what they want it is the best to
give them something to try and rely on the feedback to the existing
system...
--
Martin Wildam
--
Yo
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:13, Vince O'Sullivan wrote:
> Is Google Groups the only way to view this forum?
I read it over my gmail account.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 19:19, Moandji Ezana wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Wildam Martin wrote:
>> OK, might not scale well, the Open Office generated html will be nice
>> and blablabla, but who cares - a simple solution was asked. What do
>> you think?
> Expo
and re-thinking if I should finally introduce a little FP
style in my code. - I decided right now not to bother any more.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javap
t who cares - a simple solution was asked. What do
you think?
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 14:47, Kevin Wright wrote:
> You can even build rpm/deb/dmg files via Maven plugins.
> For bonus points, also deploy them to a repository as secondary artefacts
THIS can be a good reason to use Maven. Nobody told me that so far.
Thanks.
--
Martin Wildam
-
ng a debian package (.deb file) - this is
what the usual Ubuntu user likes most:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to j
want to manipulate existing objects or want objects
"talking" back and forth to some other component.
Of course for testing you need to initialize stuff correctly - but I
don't want to make testing easier and at the same time make the rest
of my life more complicated.
--
Martin Wild
phisticated. ;-)
That said, there are many and really cool stuff - at least when you
first look at it.
I have not settled with any yet so I am really interested in the responses.
So if you might wish after a week you never asked - I do appreciate
the feedback in any case. :)
--
Martin Wildam
--
You re
akes them effective is where you use them.
> pro-FP crowd were giving very definite concrete examples of the
> benefits to be obtained, whereas the pro-OO crowd seemed to be
> hard waving around nebulous principles
I can understand the arguments of both groups and don't find any of
t
contacts to Microsoft.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.
arding LINQ is: I imagine MS will make it work only for
C# and only for MS SQL Server. I don't think they will really work
this out to a common standard, isn't it?
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse&quo
ng a lot of stuff that already
existed before. So I guess for new languages it will become more and
more difficult to get to the level we have been before.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 17:44, Lyle wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Wildam Martin wrote:
>> BTW: Java already allows this:
>> for (Object object : list)
>> {
>> }
> This just illustrates the point I'm trying to make. So you're okay
> with t
n for 45 seconds or so, until this all repeats.
>
> Has anyone seen anything like this? Several XP machines don't have the
> problem, several Win 7 machines do. I have no idea why this would be
> such a problem.
Sounds like you should open a ticket at Microsoft.
--
Martin Wi
ven where not
really necessary. - This does not mean that this is the case for you
or for the software you write.
And last but not least, some developers even don't have a choice -
they need to adapt to what is given at the customer.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because
r not something is a "programming language"
This is one thing why I quit university - there is a difference
between theory and practice.
Whether turing complete or not, I never ever can write my next CRM,
ERP or whatever application in XML.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message bec
with Hibernate) - just plain direct code and plain SQL shipping
the data without frameworks examining my objects via reflections. -
And damn fast. - Just an experience I had developing an importer about
a year ago.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Go
ot offer solutions to my most common problems or
reducing time spent where I spend it most (e.g. GUI design ;-) ).
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to javapo...@goo
language is a good
example - easy to learn simple in the grammar, limited number of used
characters.
The intensive usage of special characters for example is not something
I consider very good.
--
Martin Wildam
Home: http://sites.google.com/site/mwildam/
Life Hack Blog: http://1-2-solved.blogsp
d already without really knowing the
language. Imagine a school boy learning the language. I mean, I wrote
my first program, when I was about 8 years old using BASIC. Think,
that Basic is still a very well established language - because it can
be even learned by a 8-years-old...
--
Martin Wildam
-
where it
ranged closely behind C++ being even faster than Java.
Anyway, although there is a lot of good new stuff, I do see people
expecting those stuff to be the overall solution for all problems -
even for the hunger in the 3rd world...
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message becau
ure nobody can't be outstanding in every area
even if you just look at Java. So you should give us at least multiple
scales.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse" group.
To post to this group, send emai
obstacles?
Maybe new languages become attractive in such cases is because new
languages don't have those historical stack of frameworks expecting
particular conventions?
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The
Java Posse&quo
s on the job where the focus is. A driver
developer also wouldn't be THE Java developer.
On the other hand, some people don't stop to argue that Java is only
for big enterprises... - people spreading out such phrases contribute
to the "Java is dying myth"... >-(
--
Martin Wildam
not yet pass beond this phase. :-(
> Oh, and these are NOT modern paradigms, I would invite you to look at the
> Wikipedia entry on the history of programming
> languages.
Don't mix up new with modern. I know, these are not new, but currently
much hyped.
--
Martin Wildam
--
years to master a topic (or in our case - programming
language for example). If you consider that you are using the same
programming language for about 10 years, we have a 80-20 rule of 80 %
bad code and 20 % good code. ;-)
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to
hics.
You are right, the parallelism need to be taken more into
consideration. But this is a general concern and IMHO not necessarily
only economically achievable using more "modern" paradigms.
--
Martin Wildam
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou
1 - 100 of 304 matches
Mail list logo
