[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

I think everything I would want to say regarding the concurrency part has been said already (and probably with less words than my usual waffle). I agree that modularity is a major issue, and I still have a suspicion that it might need to go down to the language level to be solved properly. Wha

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

The Swing runtime should have assertions in *all* cases where it needs to be executed in the event thread. This way you could just turn on the assertions and know when you loused up. As it is now there are various hacks that *others* have used to add checking to Swing from outside, but these ar

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

On second thought, I was wrong: parallelism is a big obstacle in the same vein as C++ memory management. First, almost any GUI application will completely lock up during a networking related stall or hiccup, when perfect use of parallelism could handle this more gracefully. And this isn't just am

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

> Concurrency is one of the more simple, academic issues What are you doing? Do you wanna.. tempt the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing? :D Concurrency is many things, simple ain't one of them. That's the very reason academia is *still* (60 years(?) later) trying to solve it. Anywa

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

Could you explain this? Concurrency is one of the more simple, academic issues on the larger business projects that I've been involved with. The biggest problems that I've seen in Java development have been very non-academic issues related to managing large projects with lots of different code a

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

Ben Schulz wrote: [...] > Section 4.1 of the JLS disagrees with you, the null type is there, you > just can't name it as part of a Java sentence. And it's a pity that > it's so, but I understand the reasoning behind it ( > http://blogs.sun.com/abuckley/entry/naming_the_null_type ). > As a sid

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

On 1 Jul., 12:45, B Smith-Mannschott wrote: > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:20, Ben Schulz wrote: > >> The problem with Java's null is the instance of bottom in the static > >> type system, but outside the dynamic type system. Classic puzzler: > > >> public boolean puzzle(String par) { > >>     retur

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

B Smith-Mannschott wrote: > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:20, Ben Schulz wrote: > >>> The problem with Java's null is the instance of bottom in the static >>> type system, but outside the dynamic type system. Classic puzzler: >>> >>> public boolean puzzle(String par) { >>> return (par instanceo

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:20, Ben Schulz wrote: >> The problem with Java's null is the instance of bottom in the static >> type system, but outside the dynamic type system. Classic puzzler: >> >> public boolean puzzle(String par) { >>     return (par instanceof String); >> >> } >> >> How to get a

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

> Will it even be possible to replace java > or are we at  the point where replacing java would be just too much work and > too costly? I think a language could "back into" replacing Java, just the way Peter described: By compelling library writers to switch first. With kind regards Ben --~--~--

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

> You are talking about how to fix Java, not what a new language should do > ;-) But I agree: creating a new API for collections seems a worthwhile > effort in the Java world. Maybe something with (fake) closures, too. I too should have been more clear. If there was a new language with JSR308-lik

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

In some way Java will be to its next language what C was to Java: > something you can call, but you need to be very careful. If we assume > that the new language runs on a JVM, then you should at least not have > the platform-dependency issues, but in terms of making assertions about > concurrency

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

Alan Kent wrote: > My main fear of Java based libraries (say driven from Scala) is you > never know if there are 'static's hiding there somewhere, making it not > thread safe, and making actors not really be isolated as they should. > Scala Actors beefed up a bit to make scaling across machine

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

While lower cost, improved productivity, and reducing bug counts don’t seem sufficient to motivate most businesses to change their software development practices significantly, I’m thinking that the shift to multi-core CPUs may force a sufficient crisis within the next few years that something wil

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

The nice bits of Erlang (zero shared memory concurrency, easy distribution, fault tollerance, ability to update code base while system still running and live, and concurrency, immutable types), but with a more mainline syntax/style and including Unicode support. Also easy integration with oth

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

Ben Schulz wrote: >> (...) while I personally believe the collections API is a pile >> of dung from a conceptual point of view, it is an existing standard with >> decent implementations. (...) >> > > I agree, but the collections library I would like to have would > comprise so many interfaces

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

> (...) while I personally believe the collections API is a pile > of dung from a conceptual point of view, it is an existing standard with > decent implementations. (...) I agree, but the collections library I would like to have would comprise so many interfaces that most developers would be rep

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

Ruben, I think one of the big things Java did was to solve the memory management issues (at least to a large extent). The next problem to solve is IMO concurrency, which is much too complicated with the current programming model. While there are solutions for that out there, I believe they de

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

Ruben Reusser wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Casper Bang > wrote: > > > Well my problem with configuration as found on the Java stack is > fairly generic and relates both to the lack of expressiveness as well > as the tendency to solve the same

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Casper Bang wrote: > > Well my problem with configuration as found on the Java stack is > fairly generic and relates both to the lack of expressiveness as well > as the tendency to solve the same problem in many different ways yet > no real de-facto standard (hen

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

Well my problem with configuration as found on the Java stack is fairly generic and relates both to the lack of expressiveness as well as the tendency to solve the same problem in many different ways yet no real de-facto standard (hence the less is more). During development an obscene amount of ti

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

Is your problem with configuration rooted in the EJB2.0 madness? One of my biggest problems with Java is the actual deployment cycle to a web server. I always feel the business app lifecycle is not the supported well at the moment - a small change on the server (some text, rearrange a form, etc) se

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 18:13, Ruben Reusser wrote: > hi there, > > I always felt the compelling reason to switch from C/C++ to java was that > there was a good set of libraries that came with java making my life easier > to develop web application and break from the cgi scripts - Java had a good

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

A language based on: - Convension over configuration - DSL friendlyness (to a certain degree) - A hybrid type system (dynamic when you need, static when you can) - Runtime interoperability - Less is more For those reasons, I find Fan extremely interesting. /Casper On 29 Jun., 18:27, Viktor Kla

[The Java Posse] Re: What would make you switch to a new language?

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Ruben Reusser wrote: > hi there, > > I always felt the compelling reason to switch from C/C++ to java was that > there was a good set of libraries that came with java making my life easier > to develop web application and break from the cgi scripts - Java had a go