Mr Clean

2005-04-20 Thread SOTL
Hi All Several months ago when I setup my laptop I set the root directory at 8 GB think that would be sufficient. Yesterday attempting to add programs I attempted to put 10 GB of programs into a 7GB partation. Damn I recall top of the line HD that only had 5 MB of storage so I never expected t

Re: SOLVED: Some users locked out of ssh and sftp?

2005-03-15 Thread SOTL
On Tuesday 15 March 2005 04:23, Donald Duckie wrote: > I got this error message as shown below . . . > How do I change the /root/.ssh/known_hosts file? > It seems encrypted . . . > > > @@@ > @WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGE

Re: Some users locked out of ssh and sftp?

2005-03-13 Thread SOTL
from computers which had previously connected to the box with the new HD and system. I removed contents of above fine saved and was able to immediately log-in. Hope this helps. Frank On Friday 11 March 2005 18:27, SOTL wrote: > Had the same problem. My problem was solved when I install all the p

Re: Some users locked out of ssh and sftp?

2005-03-11 Thread SOTL
Had the same problem. My problem was solved when I install all the packages required for log in in all the computers. Suggest you check upor packages. PS All packages REQUIRED for login DO NOT have SSH as part of their name. Sorry can not remember what the additional names are. Frank On Friday

Router setup

2005-03-09 Thread SOTL
Hi All I would appreciate a little help with a router set up. First I would like to keep this as simple as possible with the intent of adding complexity after I make the most basic items function as required first. This is a standard Netgear wireless router with 1 input RJ45 port and 4 output

Re: SSH and Monitor failure

2005-02-28 Thread SOTL
Please disregard following. Issue was resolved by reconnecting bad HD connection. Frank On Sunday 27 February 2005 17:47, SOTL wrote: > Hi All > > Help ! > > Sorry for screaming but I do feel a bit better now. > > I have a small network with 3 computers which

SSH and Monitor failure

2005-02-27 Thread SOTL
Hi All Help ! Sorry for screaming but I do feel a bit better now. I have a small network with 3 computers which mostly does not work: MSI with name of Reality_Check @ 192.168.2.7 with Mandrake 10.1 HP with name Meatloaf_Night @ 192.168.2.9 with Mandrake 9.2 IBM with name Big_Nate @

Re: database

2004-12-20 Thread SOTL
On Monday 20 December 2004 01:35 pm, Flemming Greve Skovengaard wrote: > S. Barret Dolph wrote: > > Any suggestions on what a school should use for a database. We mostly > > will use it for accounting and student lists. (Neither of which require > > complex database design.) > > > > Cordially, > >

Re: lilo boot problems with SATA and mandrake 10.1

2004-12-19 Thread SOTL
On Saturday 18 December 2004 01:56 pm, Hal MacArgle wrote: > On 12-16, Simon Valiquette wrote: > > Vladimir E. Rodriguez a ?crit : > > >Also I have windows XP on this system to dual boot. > > >After I have installed Fedora Core 3, It works normally, but with > > >mandrake 10.1 official I have probl

Checking File System

2004-12-05 Thread SOTL
Hi All I have an old system that I am trying to boot that will not boot. As originally setup there were two HD in the system. One with data and one with the operating system. The HD with data has long since been removed and current location is unknown. The system boots to Finding Modular depend

[SLUG] Modem signal 15

2004-11-14 Thread SOTL
I have a modem termination connection on initial login on signal 15. Does any happen to know what is happening? This is on equipment that has functioned very well on dial up for a number of years but recently has had the system reinstalled in it. Thanks Frank -

Upgrading Mandrake 9.2 to Mandrake 9.1

2004-04-14 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All I had Mandrake 9.1 installed and then upgraded to Mandrake 9.2 at which time I lost several programs that I previously had including my daily scheduler and Midnight Commander through Kedit. Since these features are more important to me than the features I gained from upgrading I would li

Re: xcdroast errors

2004-04-02 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Friday 02 April 2004 13:58, pa3gcu wrote: > On Friday 02 April 2004 17:38, Rei Shinozuka wrote: > > i've been using xcdroast for years on my thinkpad, but it consistently > > reports errors duplicating disks on my new desktop. i was trying to > > duplicate an ISO disk. i tried several input di

Re: .prn to .txt conversion = ?

2004-03-30 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Tuesday 30 March 2004 08:24, Jim Reimer wrote: > Ray Olszewski wrote: > > At 05:32 PM 3/28/2004 -0500, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote: > > > > When you say "the content is all text", can you be a bit more exact? (I > > haven't used DOS for years

.prn to .txt conversion = ?

2004-03-28 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me what tools one may use to convert MS dos .prn files whoses contents is all text to .txt files so that these files may be used in my linux box and I may through the Windows box out. Thanks Frank - To unsubscribe from this list: send t

Re: Spam from linux-newbie

2004-03-10 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
> I use different filtering software but have the same limitations. Honestly, > I don't think the first one is a bad thing. My filtering is quite good, but > it generates 2 or 3 false positives per week (out of about 4000 messages > received per week). So about once a day, I skim the summary of tr

Re: Spam from linux-newbie

2004-03-10 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi Ray I think what you are hearing is frustration with spam in general. I work in an industry that requires receiving and sending a lot of e-mail to a large volume of new potential and current technical who are all real one time users. [No mass emailing used by us.] The results is that if I u

Re: Spam from linux-newbie

2004-03-09 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi Peter This has been noted by others too. The normal procedure to eliminate this is for a list not to reject messages from any poster that is not a member of the list. Linux Newbie does not appear to be doing this. Why? You will have to ask the list maintainer. Unfortunately I know not w

Re: Router spam

2004-02-24 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
qualify for their engineering certification, making > special point to re-read the ethics qualifications. If I designed a > elevator that sometimes took you to the floor I wanted rather then the > one you wanted, I'd still be in jail. > > On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 09:57, Frank Roberts -

Re: Router spam

2004-02-24 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
u'd be right!! > > the following page has more info, including belkin's weak response: > http://www.marco.org/content/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36 > > just do a google search on "boycott belkin" > > thanks for sharing, frank > > -rei > > - For

Router spam

2004-02-24 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All For a week or so now I have been starting up my laptop in the office and receiving a immediate pop-up spam add. Havinf all filters turned on including security, popups and cookies I was going nuts trying to figure out how I had became infected with a url transfer spam program in my Linu

Re: Printing Garbage

2003-11-17 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Monday 17 November 2003 13:27, Ray Olszewski wrote: > At 04:28 PM 11/17/2003 +0800, Peter wrote: > >Hi, > > > >suddenly my printer Epson LQ 300 is only printing garbage characters. What > >could be the reason. > > > >I am in RH 7.3. I went to DOS the same, only garbage printing. > > > >There are

Re: Printing Garbage

2003-11-17 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Try a different printer if it works correctly then buy a new printer. Frank On Monday 17 November 2003 03:28, Peter wrote: > Hi, > > suddenly my printer Epson LQ 300 is only printing garbage characters. What > could be the reason. > > I am in RH 7.3. I went to DOS the same, only garbage printing.

Re: setting my path

2003-09-08 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
> No i think is more a need to understand that there is a "root" user and a > "normal" user on all linux systems. > > root = the superuser and therefor can do what he wants. > user = a normal user and cant do what he wants, he can only do what "root" > lets him/her do. Yes and they have different

IceWM Icons - Thanks

2003-08-29 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All Thanks for the comments concerning Ice-WM. It appears that for practical reasons I am stuck with KDE and Gnome. I was hoping that ICE would be better tan KDE but that does not appear the case [for my usage]. Thanks for the help. Frank - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "uns

Re: IceWM Icons

2003-08-29 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Friday 29 August 2003 14:29, Ray Olszewski wrote: > At 11:28 PM 8/29/2003 +, Anupam wrote: > >+ Hi All > >+ > >+ I have been principally using KDE. > >+ I have Gnome configures. > >+ So I decided to configure Ice-WM. > >+ Does anyone know how to configure the desktop by adding different > >b

IceWM Icons

2003-08-29 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All I have been principally using KDE. I have Gnome configures. So I decided to configure Ice-WM. Does anyone know how to configure the desktop by adding different backgrounds add icons to Ice-WM? Thanks Frank - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in the b

Re: Filtering Email to Delete Without Using POP Filters

2003-08-14 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi Peter and Jude Thanks for the help. Frank - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs

Filtering Email to Delete Without Using POP Filters

2003-08-11 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All Using Kmail is there a way to set a filter such that any mail from a particular source is deleted automatically. I an aware that this can be done with pop filters but that takes place before the mail is downloaded. This also requires a good bit more knowledge of what the email contents

Re: w0w

2003-08-02 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Thanks Ray I guess I notice because I have my mail set up to filter out mail from known sources and deposit it in in-mail folders. Any mail that is not filtered out then goes to trash where it is usuall immediately deleted but not before an examination of the subject and from lines. Anyway t

Re: w0w

2003-08-02 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
What is going on here? It appears that at least once a week that we are now getting commercial spam. What happen did some one plant a Trojan or are they logging in to send out this trash. Frank On Wednesday 19 April 2000 10:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > hi please check out the following

SOC Story

2003-07-28 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
> For all of you peaple interested in the real SCO story > http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/linux/story/0,10801,83452,00.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.k

Re: Fwd: W$ 2K...

2003-07-28 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
My knowledge on this subject is zero but I did but an excellent guide on it several months back. Linux and Windows Interoperability Guide By Ed Bradford and Lou Mauget Prentice Hall PTR Upper Saddle River NJ 07458 www.phptr.com ISBN 0-13-032477-4 0-13-032477-9 Appears to be by IBM USD 4

Re: dual boot

2003-07-17 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Nothing You don't have large enough HD for a dual boot and data. On my laptop I have a 50 GB partitioned as follows. hda1 10 GB Windows XP hda2 20 GB Common Data hda3 100 Mb Linux /boot hda4 10 GB Linux / hda5 10 GB Linux /home Point is I am not sure I have enough HD if I attempt to edi

Re: path Setting

2003-07-14 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Sunday 13 July 2003 13:41, Hal MacArgle wrote: > On 07-13, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote: > > but when I close the terminal and reopen the terminal to check the path > > has reurned to its original form. > > > > Would some one please enlightnment me as to the corrrect

Re: path Setting

2003-07-13 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
t part is valid?" are excellent questions. Thanks Frank On Sunday 13 July 2003 13:53, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote: > Hi all and Ray > > HELP please > I have about 8 books with some info in it, none complete, and a few web > sites but I am still not getting it. > > THis is wx

Re: path Setting

2003-07-13 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi all and Ray HELP please I have about 8 books with some info in it, none complete, and a few web sites but I am still not getting it. THis is wxactly what I did. Opened KDE Konsole in home directory Typed @ > echo $PATH Got -> /usr//bin:/bin:/usr/bin::/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin: /usr

path Setting

2003-07-13 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
ve Md 9.1 also set up on a desktop for testing. It has the same user path errors (to me). Thanks Frank On Saturday 12 July 2003 23:02, Ray Olszewski wrote: > See below. > > At 10:21 PM 7/12/2003 -0400, Brian P. Bilbrey wrote: > >On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 19:52, Frank Roberts -

Re: Turkey Kusadasi

2003-07-04 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
How did this commerical spam get through the filters? On Friday 04 July 2003 21:09, Kusadasi - Turkey wrote: > Please visit my website > www.kusadasiproperties.com > Houses, villas ,holiday apartments in Kusadasi Turkey > Thank you > Hamit Karaca > > Need partnership... > - > To unsubscribe f

Linux's SOC Rebuttal

2003-06-15 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Threat http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10018 Action http://mozillaquest.com/Linux03/ScoSource-19-Injunction_Story01.html http://mozillaquest.com/Linux03/ScoSource-18-Injunction_Story01.html Frank - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in the body of a messa

Newbie Qt compiling

2003-06-14 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All I have Md 9.1 installed on my Thinkpad which eliminates most of the issues that I had with Md 9.0. Currently, I am trying to set up the Qt compiler so that I may again attempt to start to learn a little bit of programming. - In that light I have located Qt to be in the following direc

Burning iso to disk

2003-03-13 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All I have downloaded the Mandrake 9.1rc2.iso to my HD. I have attempted to burn these iso to CD by both CDRoast and by command line. I did not ck sums but am assuming that they are good as iso were downloaded on line better than t3. After placing #1 burn CD in CD Reader to start installatio

Tomsrtbt on A30P

2003-02-09 Thread Frank Robers _ SOTL
Hi All Has anyone used Tomsrtbt on an A30P? I have a new copy of Tomsrtbt, downloaded it today, which works very well on my other two boxes but only boots halfway on my Thinkpad. My first help request was to Tom at Tomsrtbt but since he does not have an A30P he was unable to help. The problem a

Re: Minicom and Modem

2003-02-02 Thread Frank Robers _ SOTL
On Sunday 02 February 2003 08:37, pa3gcu wrote: > On Sunday 02 February 2003 12:45, Frank Robers _ SOTL wrote: > > Hi > > > > Thanks for the help. I greatly appreciate your taking the effort to > > respond. > > > > Now for the principal issue. > > >

Re: Minicom and Modem

2003-02-02 Thread Frank Robers _ SOTL
01 February 2003 22:10, Frank Robers _ SOTL wrote: > > Hi All > > > > Sorry for the posting. I have tried for two weeks to find my previous set > > of Minicom notes but. > > > > Anyway hopefully some nice person will help. > > > > I have this computer conn

Minicom and Modem

2003-02-01 Thread Frank Robers _ SOTL
Hi All Sorry for the posting. I have tried for two weeks to find my previous set of Minicom notes but. Anyway hopefully some nice person will help. I have this computer connected to another computer by null modem cable. This is not the first time for this so I know that the other computer is

Re: rpm description

2003-01-03 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Thursday 02 January 2003 22:23, Peter wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > > for a package already installed: rpm -qi > > for a package not yet installed: rpm -qip > > Using mc has the advantage of not making typing errors on those long names. That is what I thought the great advantage of typin

Re: Minicom fails

2002-12-20 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
If it works you are correct. Frank On Friday 20 December 2002 02:00, Peter wrote: > Peter said: > > After I run a RH7.3 upgrade I can't access anymore minicom as a user. > > I get the following message: ]$ minicom Device /dev/ttyS0 lock failed: > > Operation not permitted. > > Thanks Frank! > >

Re: Modem Identification - Thanks

2002-12-15 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Thanks for the info. By the way there is a Thinkpad user group and news group at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Frank On Sunday 15 December 2002 15:29, dashielljt wrote: > Well you should know that on freshmeat newsletter in the last couple days > a package was released for the thinkpad which would

Re: Modem Identification - Thanks

2002-12-15 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All I finally got the IBM A30P Think Pad I have been working on for the last month on line. Getting Linux on was a bitch you people may recall all my posts concerning the various distributions over this. The modem has proven to be equally chalanging mainly because of lack of information on

Re: Modem Identification

2002-12-15 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
d which returns the modem identification annd type? I seem to recall that there is but I can not recall it but again this may be falty network memory. Thanks Frank On Saturday 14 December 2002 20:19, Ray Olszewski wrote: > At 08:14 PM 12/14/02 -0500, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote: > &g

Modem Identification

2002-12-14 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All Question: >From the command line how does one determine which port a modem is on? Thanks Frank - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Plea

HD Partitiona

2002-11-26 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All: I am sure you recall my triad against RH 8.0, Suse 8.2, and Mandrake 8.0 so for info I finally got RH 8.0 on my laptop computer. I even managed to get the Hard Drive partition the way I wanted as follows: hda1C:/ NTFS10 GB Containing MS Windows XP hda2E:/ fat32

Linux distributions

2002-11-16 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
This is a message I posted on our local Linux bb earler today. Frank > Hi All: > > The title of this message was Linux distributions. Based on that and my > current feelings I could not resist in responding. > > Last Wednesday at the Tampa meeting one of the strong grues help me with > installing

Re: question to admin

2002-11-11 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
I seem to do quite well in Kmail filtering on: [any header] linux-newbie Frank On Wednesday 31 December 1969 19:00, Heimo Claasen wrote: > is there the possiblity to get this "[listname]" tag on the subject > line with this list ? > > And/Or else: could the normal "From:" get made to the real s

Re: RH7.3 keyboard lock-up

2002-11-06 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi Peter Being dumb I gave away my RH 7.2 box set only to find out that the problem you discuss is not the only problem with RH 7.3. In particular my modem freezes or locks up which can only be cleared by disconnection and reconnecting. This did not occur in RH 7.2. Now, there has to be some pa

SCSI Card Recognized Incorrrectly

2002-10-29 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi Folks Thanks in advance for listing to my small knowledge problem. Running RH 7.3 I have a HP 6100 scanner which my system recognizes as a HP 24xx scanner. To me the problem appears to exist because the on installation of the system RH 7.3 automatically recognizes the SCSI card as (dmesg):

Re: RedHat 8

2002-10-24 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Not always. Since I travel a lot and I am seldom at one location I normally use a dial up connection. Down load time for many of the components is normally in the 6 to 24 hour range. At the last linux meeting I attempted to down load RH using a T3 line. Unfortunately there were so many others t

Re: RedHat 8

2002-10-24 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
I am stating IN NO UNCERTANT TERNS THAT THERE IS NO GONOME GUI IN RH 8.0 just like ther is no KDE GUI. RH 8.0 uses a new RH GUI which has appears to be 90% Gnome but is not Gnome. (Sorry I forgot the name of the GUI just like I am trying to forget RH 8.0) Frank On Wednesday 23 October 2002

Re: RedHat 8

2002-10-24 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Wednesday 23 October 2002 16:31, Paul Krause wrote: > 4 for and 1 against. You really slammed it. Can I inquire as to why you > like suse? Sorry but being pro Suse was not the intended meaning. In fact that is the very inverse of intent. For Suse The best set of programs Against Suse The m

Re: RedHat 8

2002-10-23 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
If you think RH 7.2 is better than RH 7.3 then YOU WILL DEFINITELY NOT BE HAPPY WITH RH 8.0. Frank On Wednesday 23 October 2002 09:33, Haines Brown wrote: > I assume the answer to the question depends on one's work habits. What > worries me in terms of my own are three things, and I'd like fee

Re: RedHat 8

2002-10-23 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
First the major change in RH 5.0 to 6.0 to 7.0 to 8.0 appear to be major changes in the RH side of the software meaning major changes in the installation and configuration programs. The changes in x.0 to x.2 to x.3 appear to be changes in the content and progressive increases (sometimes) in sta

Re: javascript

2002-10-09 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Wednesday 09 October 2002 16:53, Dave Pomeory wrote: > My business has a web page that uses javascript. I can't seem to make it > work in Mozilla, Netscape, or Korqurer. When I boot into windows and use > Internet Exployer it works fine. Anyone have a clue as to what is going > on? Do I nee

Re: Copying files to CD-ROM discs

2002-10-07 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
On Sunday 06 October 2002 22:20, Ray Olszewski wrote: > Sorry, but you can't do it that way. To write to a CD, you actually have to > control the CD burner part of the CD device ... it's not just like writing > to a filesystem. Thinks It appears that I will have to try a different approach. Tha

Re: Command line questions - Thanks All

2002-10-06 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
ersion of Slackware with > a lot more power and very Unix like.. You'll be amazed as I, finding > where Dos and everything else came from... HTH > > Hal - in Terra Alta, WV - Slackware GNU/Linux 8.0 (2.4.13) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On 1

Copying files to CD-ROM discs

2002-10-06 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
First thanks for the previous help that several of you provided. Since I have been sort of thinking along these lines I could have sworn that I had saved a set of e-mail that told how to make a CD using the dd comand but all I could find in my repository was a procedure for making an ISO from a

Command line questions

2002-10-05 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
After studious consultation with several of my Linux books and an all day experience in attempting to access the hard drive of a Windows box using Tomsrtbt I have a couple of command line questions. Background: Box was started on Tomsrtbt and HD was successful mounted. ls -a > Windors-C.txt un

Pop Up Banner Adds

2002-09-26 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Another dumb question but this one is beginning to drive me nuts. In KDE one can easily delete unwanted cookies on a dial up connected box with out network capabilities. Is there some easy way to delete unwanted Pop Up Banner Adds which appear when you access a site. Clicking on the URL to t

Re:Solved: Newbie installation problem

2002-08-27 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
> > I changed the NIC to another PCI slot that I had skipped. Either the PCI > slots are read in sequence, or the PCI slot my NIC was occupying was > damaged. Due to problems with my system which were solved by moving cards to a different location I would like to ask in general - because I ass

IRQ conflict

2002-08-08 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Hi All; Hope some one understands what I am saying more than I do and can explain what procedures I should utilize to correct the problem. I have added a scsi card back into this box (It was in the box once before) and I am getting a IRQ conflict as follows: PCI: Found IRQ 11 for device 00:0

Re: LI -lilo booting problem

2002-07-29 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
Somewhere in my far distant past I had a dual boot RH 6.0 / MS Windows system. I now have a dual boot RH 7.3 box. If I recall correctly all I did to R H 6.0 box to make it read and write to the Win side was add the following line to fstab: /dev/hda1/mnt/dosvfatuser,noauto,rw 0 0

Re: No Boot Problem

2002-07-26 Thread Frank Roberts - SOTL
le as a BIOS mismatch, if you didn't either set the BIOS > to autoprobe for IDE primary master or actually specify the new drive > geometry). > > A couple of specific comments are below. > > At 08:44 AM 7/26/02 -0400, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote: > [...] > > > > At