Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/30/2014 09:46 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > > > No, not necessarily. Why would it? > > > > Only if we wanted to convert them to work in that way, which could > be done, but would require more backwards-compat code. > > Why would it? It just seems like the natural progression of things. >

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

> No, not necessarily. Why would it? > > Only if we wanted to convert them to work in that way, which could be done, but would require more backwards-compat code. Why would it? It just seems like the natural progression of things. Is this not what you had in mind for a dedicated tempo automation

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/30/2014 06:56 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Vesa > wrote: > > On 05/30/2014 06:28 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > > > Wouldn't increasing visibility by adding these to the song editor's > > view in effect inherently mak

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Vesa wrote: > On 05/30/2014 06:28 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > > > Wouldn't increasing visibility by adding these to the song editor's > > view in effect inherently make the globals act and feel just like the > > non-globals since they'd be in track form? > >

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/30/2014 06:28 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > Wouldn't increasing visibility by adding these to the song editor's > view in effect inherently make the globals act and feel just like the > non-globals since they'd be in track form? Not quite. The global tracks always have a fixed single patte

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

> > However, personally I'd still prefer a dedicated tempo track. Global > auto tracks are a bit tricky because you can't use patterns in them, > they're just one long stretch of a pattern, which makes it a bit harder > to add automation at a specific point in the song (you have to look up > the po

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/30/2014 05:14 PM, Tobias Doerffel wrote: > It just came to my mind that we could think about re-using the global > automation pattern feature. If we change it that way that all global > automations (as soon as more than one value is set) appear as > individual tracks it improves visibility a

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

Hi Vesa and others, thank you for your suggestions and discussion! It took me a while to read at least thouroughly over what has been written. I also vote for implementing a dedicated tempo track. The current approach simply "was there" after implementing automation support at all -> basic tempo c

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

diiz wrote > and since we can just work on the > full sampletrack implementation for 1.2 in any case, it makes no sense > to do this stopgap measure, because we can just go for the full prize > all at once. Absolutely- If you believe the 'gold solution' (yours) could be in 1.2, then forget about

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/28/2014 06:39 PM, musikbear wrote: > diiz wrote >> And again, if you want to select a part of a sampletrack, this just runs >> *again* into the same problem: it's the exact same thing as playing >> sample tracks from the middle. We can't do any of that stuff without >> figuring out where a ti

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

diiz wrote > And again, if you want to select a part of a sampletrack, this just runs > *again* into the same problem: it's the exact same thing as playing > sample tracks from the middle. We can't do any of that stuff without > figuring out where a time is in the sampletrack. > Face it, if you wan

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/26/2014 12:30 AM, Stian Jørgensrud wrote: > I actually just read all the messages, and understood parts of it! Most of it > actually :D > > Ok, we want LMMS to play samples straight forward not taking the tempo in > consideration. No... we want to play samples so that they DO take tempo in c

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

I actually just read all the messages, and understood parts of it! Most of it actually :D Ok, we want LMMS to play samples straight forward not taking the tempo in consideration. Problem arrives when you want to play in the middle of a sample, in a song where there already have been a tempo change

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

Quoting Tres Finocchiaro : > Most of these make the song-editor > front-row-and-center for track content, and the beat/bassline is simply a > child of that interface. Are you saying that isn't the case now? I've always seen the B&B editor as a very close relative of a drum machine... > So

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/25/2014 07:03 PM, musikbear wrote: > Darn, i felt that current engine is both stable efficient and fast > diiz wrote Well. Stable? Mostly. Efficient and fast? Some places, yes - other places, not so much. Remember all that stuff about how our engine isn't RT safe... We have pretty damn good

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

diiz wrote > more like the "back of the engine" is already broken and we need to > figure out how to fix it. Darn, i felt that current engine is both stable efficient and fast diiz wrote > Piano roll only plays the selected pattern, that's how it's always > worked... > We could implement a new p

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/25/2014 03:13 PM, musikbear wrote: > small inputs > I fear a little that to mutch attention to sample-track improvements, could > cost a lot in other functionality, especially efficiency/ cpu-load -Its like > a dont break the ice, in order to set a 'skate here' sign :) -Eg the benefit > of ha

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

diiz wrote > you can basically record automations live by playing the keyboard. ! intetresting.. small inputs I fear a little that to mutch attention to sample-track improvements, could cost a lot in other functionality, especially efficiency/ cpu-load -Its like a dont break the ice, in order t

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/25/2014 12:31 PM, Vesa wrote: > (try connecting a peak controller and record automations by playing > another instrument... it's fun). And elaborating on this, here's an even more fun thing you can try... Take an instrument. It can be anything, but a simple melodic instrument like triple os

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/25/2014 09:29 AM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and I'm happy to be on a forum > which I can do the same. > > In most commercial DAWs, changes within the daw (knobs, etc) have the > ability to be recorded directly in to the editor. This ability to > record

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and I'm happy to be on a forum which I can do the same. In most commercial DAWs, changes within the daw (knobs, etc) have the ability to be recorded directly in to the editor. This ability to record tends to be the favored approach of automation for new comp

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/25/2014 03:56 AM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > The button would be the same style toolbar button we have today for > add automation track or bb track. > So a toolbar button for the show/hide mechanism? That should be doable. > No, it should not be default, neither should be the existing > au

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

The button would be the same style toolbar button we have today for add automation track or bb track. No, it should not be default, neither should be the existing automation track nor the sample track IMO. New features don't get jammed in people's face for no reason, and automation should be used

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/25/2014 03:25 AM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > Tempo automation track is still a track and should operate as a track. > > This means it should be consistent with other track behavior: > > 1. It should be removable > This can be achieved with a show/hide function. > 2. I would advocate that

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

Tempo automation track is still a track and should operate as a track. This means it should be consistent with other track behavior: 1. It should be removable 2. I would advocate that it is not part of the default song editor template 3. It would have its own button. All that I am saying is t

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

I agree with Vesa, I think having a separate tempo track will surely have benefits. On 24 May 2014 23:32, "Vesa" wrote: > > On 05/25/2014 12:18 AM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: >> >> It would be your proposal, but it would "switch" to the dedicated tempo track when dragging the tempo control over an ex

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/25/2014 12:18 AM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > It would be your proposal, but it would "switch" to the dedicated > tempo track when dragging the tempo control over an existing > automation track. > > Similar to how you can drag Zyn over a TripleOsc and it switched (bad > comparison but best I

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

It would be your proposal, but it would "switch" to the dedicated tempo track when dragging the tempo control over an existing automation track. Similar to how you can drag Zyn over a TripleOsc and it switched (bad comparison but best I can think of). Think of it as a backwards compat drag-and-dr

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/24/2014 11:09 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > Perhaps a backward compatible hybrid approach, where an empty > automation event can switch to tempo-only track automatically when the > first component is tempo, and then display a confirmation/warning if > its not the first/only event type. > I

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

Perhaps a backward compatible hybrid approach, where an empty automation event can switch to tempo-only track automatically when the first component is tempo, and then display a confirmation/warning if its not the first/only event type. I get it though, mixing types is bad in this case... hmm...

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/24/2014 10:16 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > > Remember the KISS principle... and as corollary, Murphy's law. The > simpler we keep things, the less potential there is for things to go > horribly wrong... > > Yes, that's why I hinted that not being the one coding makes my UI > requests fairl

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

> Remember the KISS principle... and as corollary, Murphy's law. The simpler we keep things, the less potential there is for things to go horribly wrong... Yes, that's why I hinted that not being the one coding makes my UI requests fairly moot. From a composer's perspective, I never want discrimi

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/24/2014 09:36 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > I had misspoken when I called the automation track a controller, sorry. > > Yes, limiting the tempo changes to only one automation track is what > I was attempting to describe and I understand after your explanation > why that may not be as easy

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

I had misspoken when I called the automation track a controller, sorry. Yes, limiting the tempo changes to only one automation track is what I was attempting to describe and I understand after your explanation why that may not be as easy as suggested. Conceptually, its still difficult because au

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/24/2014 08:30 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote: > > Its not so much about playing straight through as it is about clicking > ahead in a track. In order for the sample track to play at the proper > moment requires iterating through the automation controllers to find > out where the actual play time

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

On 05/24/2014 08:17 PM, Stian Jørgensrud wrote: > I don't really understand what you are having trouble with. Why not use the > timer as reference for sample tracks? What timer? If you don't understand, don't worry about it. It's all technical stuff really. > I like the idea of a tempo track. I d

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

Its not so much about playing straight through as it is about clicking ahead in a track. In order for the sample track to play at the proper moment requires iterating through the automation controllers to find out where the actual play time should start from. See, when you play a sample track from

Re: [LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

I don't really understand what you are having trouble with. Why not use the timer as reference for sample tracks? Or are you planning on stretching sample track audio files with the tempo? So a slower tempo would slow down the sample too? I like the idea of a tempo track. I do not like the fact t

[LMMS-devel] Things learned while working on the sampletrack branch

So, I recently attempted to implement improvements to sampletrack functionality: most importantly, the way to play sampletracks from any part of the song, in a reliable way, with accurate timing that works with or without tempo automation. It eventually became such a complex project with tons of ch