Garry,
I highly doubt that the silica in ebony pegs, or for that matter probably
in most hardwoods, is the reason for ebony not being fashionable in lutes,
or that historical lute makers even had the foresight to imagine it was bad
for lutes. It has much more to do with the fact that ebony is hi
> Certain hardwoods, especially some species of oak, contain fairly high c=
> oncentrations of crystalline silica (not silicon, nothing to do with =
> computer chip wafer fabrication!). Higher concentrations can be hazar= dous
> to health in dust, and very hard on plane blades. I think
Certain hardwoods, especially some species of oak, contain fairly high c=
oncentrations of crystalline silica (not silicon, nothing to do with =
computer chip wafer fabrication!). Higher concentrations can be hazar= dous
to health in dust, and very hard on plane blades. I think only
He did not reach that conclusion.
He states that ebony wasn't used on historical lutes.
The second and third sentences of the quote refer to the modern world.
In other words, if you built a lute today, you would know that ebony is a
terrible wood ( due to its high silica content) to use for pegs
>.From Robert Lundberg's "Historical Lute Construction":
">The first thing one notices is that historical pegs are not >made of
ebony!
>It is widely known today that ebony is a terrible wood >for pegs. The wood
>contains so much silicon that the peg holes are soon >worn out and a new
set of
>pegs
>I asked Robert Barto about this and he said he uses equal temperament
>but occasionally pushes the first fret up to get a 'good' third.
Correction: That should be down not up! That is, towards the nut.
--
Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
To get on or off this list
>From Robert Lundberg's "Historical Lute Construction":
"The first thing one notices is that historical pegs are not made of ebony!
It is widely known today that ebony is a terrible wood for pegs. The wood
contains so much silicon that the peg holes are soon worn out and a new set of
pegs must be
> Back in the old country we say: "A spoonful of tar will ruin a barrel of
> honey".
> RT
>
> But then again, " A spoonful of honey helps the medicine go down, the
> medicine go down"
> Michael Thames
>I've been extremely homeopathic with this particular >patient, but I'm
afraid
>surgical intervent
To the contrary, ebony is a very smooth wood, it just happens to be way
harder than most other woods, and therefore seems more abrasive.
The main problem with ebony is that it swells and shrinks more than other
woods. I've replaced many flamenco guitar pegs with plum to most
guitarist's great j
This is the major problem with using ebony for pegs. Ebony is very gritty
wood and actually acts like little rat tailed file in making the peg box
holes larger. It is my understanding that the original Lutes were pegged
with pegs made of fruit wood of sorts stained black to look like Ebony. I
ha
Jon Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Dana,
>
> Very informative Dana, thank you. BTW, I'm not sure why I said that the
> pegbox and the peg wouldn't grab if they were the same material.
The issue, as I understand it, is for the microstructures of each material to
be
sufficiently different t
> Back in the old country we say: "A spoonful of tar will ruin a barrel of
> honey".
> RT
>
> But then again, " A spoonful of honey helps the medicine go down, the
> medicine go down"
> Michael Thames
I've been extremely homeopathic with this particular patient, but I'm afraid
surgical interventio
Back in the old country we say: "A spoonful of tar will ruin a barrel of
honey".
RT
But then again, " A spoonful of honey helps the medicine go down, the
medicine go down"
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Back in the old country we say: "A spoonful of tar will ruin a barrel of
honey".
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
> And when they do, you will know it by the great taste.
> In this case, you will forget about the proof because
> your attention will be on how much you
And when they do, you will know it by the great taste.
In this case, you will forget about the proof because
your attention will be on how much you are enjoying
the combination of ingredients.
MC
-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mar 9, 2005 12:17 PM
To: lut
The pudding's ingredients have to have certain quality.
RT
>
> The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
> M
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Mar 9, 2005 5:00 AM
> To: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Arto Wikla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, lut
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
M
-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mar 9, 2005 5:00 AM
To: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Arto Wikla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: Continuo
> Actually the Dm lute is v
Dear Stephan,
Thank you for raising that question. I would like to know not
only who has configured a baroque lute with unequal fret spacings
but any lute, including theorbo.
Best regards,
Marion
-Original Message-
From: Stephan Olbertz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mar 9, 2005 2:04 AM
To: "
Dear Everyone,
I would think that one of the main advantages of movable frets is that
you can change the temperment. How often is this done and what
is the next most common temperment used in lutes besides ET?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
Best regards,
Marion
-Original Message-
Dear Tim,
Your understanding is correct - in fact you almost saw through the bushing,
and it breaks off once it is a fit.
Likewise for "any material" - the argument for same material would be
minimal wear. The argument for red plastic escapes me, but the only thing
that I would add is that on br
>It would be interesting to know who infact does set up his baroque
>lute unequally, and how. I recently asked something like this and
>got just one answer in favor of ET.
I asked Robert Barto about this and he said he uses equal temperament
but occasionally pushes the first fret up to get a 'g
>You who play continuo by different instruments, you must know the
>situation? Any good advice for learning more and more continuo
>instruments? One possibility could be to forget the keys and start
>thinking just in intervals? That could make also transposion "in-fly"
>easier!
This is why I chose
Am Mittwoch, 9. März 2005 16:37 schrieb Roman Turovsky:
> > At least there are hints it could be used in certain casts. The concerts
> > by Hagen, Falckenhagen and others used the baroque lute in smaller
> > settings but also - if you take a look at Falckenhagen's f-majopr concert
> > - with a stri
Hi Benjamin,
thanks for the reference. I must have been blind - I've read through this page
several time but somehow didn't find the term "double-strings".
Baron bought his lute shortly after he got into the duty of the prussian court
which was in 1737, 10 years after he published the passage
>My understanding of how an instrument is "bushed' is that a tapering
cylinder (essentially a peg without a key) is glued into the peg
holes and the excess (the parts that stick outside the peg box and
the parts that run between the cheeks inside the box) are cut off.
You then have discs glued int
> At least there are hints it could be used in certain casts. The concerts by
> Hagen, Falckenhagen and others used the baroque lute in smaller settings but
> also - if you take a look at Falckenhagen's f-majopr concert - with a string
> quartet. here it even serves as solo instrument.
Exactly, a S
So would we assume that the adoption of one of his instruments Weiss was
referring to in his letter to Matheson, was simply another therobo in D
minor tuning? If this is the case it seems it would hardly be worth
mentioning.
It seems though, that there is no other logical alternative.
Benjami
Baron describes the stringing of the German theorbo thus, on p. 110 of Douglas
Alton Smith's translation of the Untersuchung:
"The theorbo's tuning was the same as the old lute tuning: g'd'afcGFEDCB'(orB
flat) A' G'E'D' (Baron actually seems to be describing here an archlute, but
whatever). To
At least there are hints it could be used in certain casts. The concerts by
Hagen, Falckenhagen and others used the baroque lute in smaller settings but
also - if you take a look at Falckenhagen's f-majopr concert - with a string
quartet. here it even serves as solo instrument.
Also the entry by
Thanks for the better translations from Baron's text.
So you think the fact that Baron bought a teorbo from Weiss proves that
Weiss's instrument was tuned in d-minor?
I doubt also I admit that it's what's most probable. I just would like the
lute community not to accept as fact what is derivati
Am Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:07:59 + (GMT) schrieb Benjamin Narvey
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> It is absolutely clear that the German therobo was in d-minor tuning.
> Baron
> makes this clear in the Untersuchung. He says it is tuned in the "neue
> Lauten-
> Stimmung", i.e., the accords nouveaux:
>> I think some of us here might want to disagree with your last sentence:
>> the basic tuning of the Dm lute is f'-d'-a-f-d-A, so if (as you say) ET
>> was needed for this tuning, it would also be needed for Ren lute, since
>> the 2nd to 4th courses are tuned the same. Using meantone temperaments
> Yes, regarding German continuo, perhaps the best informed modern discussion of
> this is Tim Burris's PhD dissertation "Lute and Theorbo in Vocal music in 18th
> Century Dresden: A Performance Practice Study" available from UMI. The below
> is largely informed by that.
>
> It is absolutely cle
> Actually the Dm lute is very nice to accompany singers when played
> correctly. It is a great continuo instrument, among other uses.
>
> Marion
A proof, please.
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
>
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>
>>> Also, short of
> I think some of us here might want to disagree with your last sentence:
> the basic tuning of the Dm lute is f'-d'-a-f-d-A, so if (as you say) ET
> was needed for this tuning, it would also be needed for Ren lute, since
> the 2nd to 4th courses are tuned the same. Using meantone temperaments
> o
>> (An important thing to note, however, is that the new German theorbo was
>> not used everywhere in Germanic lands, and that it existed side by side
>> with the old Italian tuning as well. In Vienna, for instance, Conti was
>> still playing with Italian tuning.)
>>
> the conti cantates publishe
On Wednesday 09 March 2005 13:07, you wrote:
>
> (An important thing to note, however, is that the new German theorbo was
> not used everywhere in Germanic lands, and that it existed side by side
> with the old Italian tuning as well. In Vienna, for instance, Conti was
> still playing with Italia
Yes, regarding German continuo, perhaps the best informed modern discussion of
this is Tim Burris's PhD dissertation "Lute and Theorbo in Vocal music in 18th
Century Dresden: A Performance Practice Study" available from UMI. The below
is largely informed by that.
It is absolutely clear that
Hi Stephan,
I usually am sloping my first fret when I am playing in keys which "like" a
sharper f-sharp and am putting it in the other direction when playing flat
keys.
Not the best way if you want MT and just a tiny adjustment but surprisingly
effective.
best wishes
Thomas
Am Mittwoch, 9.
Hi Markus,
where does Baron tell us the tuning of Weiss theorbo?
In "Untersuchung" he only speaks in general terms about a new tuning similar
to the "new" baroque lute tuning of the instrument.
He gives the old tuning as a renaissance-tuning not based on A as we would
expect for a theorbo but
Am Wed, 09 Mar 2005 08:59:22 + schrieb Martin Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I think some of us here might want to disagree with your last sentence:
> the basic tuning of the Dm lute is f'-d'-a-f-d-A, so if (as you say) ET
> was needed for this tuning, it would also be needed for Ren lute, si
On the question of bushings, these are a standard repair for violins. The
ebony will always wear the maple to produce bigger and ultimately irregular
holes. The first step, when the pegs are going too deep into the peg box is
to ream the holes true, and shave down peg blanks to fit. When the hol
Hello Michael,
which instrument Weiss meant I'm not at all sure , but it is very probable that
it was similar to the d minor tuning if not equal.
When Weiss writes that the instrument is similar to the theorbo (size, force
etc.) but in a different tuning, he possibly means that it has the new tun
Dear Stephan,
I think some of us here might want to disagree with your last sentence:
the basic tuning of the Dm lute is f'-d'-a-f-d-A, so if (as you say) ET
was needed for this tuning, it would also be needed for Ren lute, since
the 2nd to 4th courses are tuned the same. Using meantone temper
Dear all,
perhaps my old article "Basics of the basics of lute continuo", written
11 years ago, could still be of some use to a beginning continuo
player? It was written a g-lute in mind, but some points are
independent of the tuning.
The article can be found in my page
http://www.cs.helsi
Thomas,
Thanks for the answer. I had read of those numerics for the intervals, but
had forgotten (a function of being aged). So it seems you are saying that
the continuo is a bass line with indications of the intervals one may add on
top of that line. That sounds like an early form of a "fake book
Goran,
What happened to Afternoon Delight? .
Best, Jon
To get on or off this list see list information at
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Dana,
Very informative Dana, thank you. BTW, I'm not sure why I said that the
pegbox and the peg wouldn't grab if they were the same material. I was
thinking of wood, and as that is (more or less, depending on the wood)
hygroscopic then both pegbox and peg will swell and and shrink under the
same
Am Wed, 9 Mar 2005 00:35:32 +0100 schrieb Thomas Schall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> We know that Weiss played continuo. The tuning is not certain.
> Baron's remark on page 131 of his "Untersuchung" suggests that the theoboes
> of his time would have been tuned similar to a baroque lute to avoid
> "rel
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