>b. Symmetry is one of the least interesting forms of >composition. It is
>a cheap trick, and it is wise to avoid it. BTW, the nazi >architects
>(Albert Speer...) used it a lot
Interesting to note, the best lutemakers of the ren. were Germans.
>Actually symmetry does not exist in nature
o:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: LUTELIST<mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> ; Manolo Laguillo<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
>b. Symmetry is one of the least interesting forms of >composition. It is
>a
lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
Crystals are only symmetrical to a point. It's a convenient and reasonably good
approximation, but perfect symmetry runs afoul of the second law of
thermodynami
Is it wrong for humans to try to achieve perfect symmetry? It seems nature
is trying.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: guy_and_liz Smith
To: LUTELIST ; Manolo Laguillo ; Michael Thames
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re:
int defects and dislocations.
- Original Message -
From: Michael Thames
To: LUTELIST ; Manolo Laguillo
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
>b. Symmetry is one of the least interesting forms of >composition. It is
Guitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "guy_and_liz Smith"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LUTELIST" ; "Manolo Laguillo"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tues
tenment.
> Is it wrong for humans to try to achieve perfect symmetry? It seems
nature is trying.
> Michael Thames
> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> - Original Message -
> From: guy_and_liz Smith
> To: LUTELIST ; Manolo Laguillo ; Michael Thames
> Sent: Monday, Ma
At 02:24 PM 5/24/2005, Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote:
>++Yes, you are right when applied to the lute body which can have
>a plane of symmetry, this part can in theory be completely symmetrical
>with respect to that plane. It is the nut and peg box that break the
>symmetrical
>pattern...
..and bridges
arion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
At 02:24 PM 5/24/2005, Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote:
>++Yes, you are right when applied to the lute body which can have
>a plane of
At 03:01 PM 5/24/2005, Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote:
>...But what if
>you apply the symmetry question to only the body and the top without
>taking into
>account the internal structure and bridge? Then is there a reason for
>asymmetry?
I think so, and the only reason for that single plane of symmetry
Dear Marion et al.,
- Original Message -
From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> with respect to the plane of re
hamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Michael Thames"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm &
Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: May 24, 2005 11:09 AM
> To: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <
Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Michael Thames"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> That is right! (Eugene always knows!!) A
e, it seems
one must in some way reconstruct the original plans.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Tony Chalkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> Dear M
t: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> >I think that we all try to mirror the left and right (unless >there is a
> good
> >reason not to) - I'm talking of outline, not barring, bridge, >etc., but
> for
> >some reaon, the wo
: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> Geometrical drawing of the whole front leads to template for one half, by
> definition reversible, based on the centre line/joint of the front...
> - Original Message -
> From: "Michael T
m: guy_and_liz Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: May 23, 2005 6:44 PM
> To: LUTELIST ,
> Manolo Laguillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
>
> Crystals are only symmetrical to a point. It
Michael,
I thought I'd covered my views on this topic, but I have to add my comment.
> Is it wrong for humans to try to achieve perfect symmetry? It seems
nature is trying.
Nature is trying, very trying (I hope you know that English trope). Can we
know perfection? No. Can we aspire to it? Yes
Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
I'm not sure to whom to reply, so I pick on the good Dr. of Chemistry. It
comes down to the question of what is perfection.
++Perfection depends on the domain and the context. What is perfect
in one domain
l Message -
From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "guy_and_liz Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LUTELIST"
; "Manolo Laguillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:13 PM
7 May 2005 15:23
To: Jon Murphy; guy_and_liz Smith; LUTELIST; Manolo Laguillo
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
A friend of mine who works at Sandia Labs tried to explain Quantum
Physics
to me over a couple bottles of wine one evening, unfortunately if I
can't
apply it in my dai
Jon Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Bringing it back to the lute, your
> ear is the best tuning device.
Arguable.
Yes, some humans ear will be the ultimate judge, but, diffreent ears
have different preferences, and, frankly, the human ear isnt capable of
hearing the differences between cl
The way a lute is strung makes it _need_ to be assymetrical; the high-
pitched strings on one side, one course unpaired, thick strings ont he
bass side needing more room for their vibration - the top is braced and
thicknessed in zones to accomodate these assymetrical points.
Assembling a lutes b
Ron Fletcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Hi Michael,
>
> Going back to your initial posting about lute symmetry. In the
> Stradivari workshop on your recent trip to Italy, you saw a paper
> template for a lute body, folded along the centre-line.
Is it clear how this template was used?
I can se
To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> Hi Michael,
>
> Going back to your initial posting about lute symmetry. In the
> Stradivari workshop on your recent trip to Italy, you saw a paper
> templa
Dear Dana,
On Fri, 27 May 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Jon Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > Bringing it back to the lute, your
> > ear is the best tuning device.
>
> Arguable.
>
> Yes, some humans ear will be the ultimate judge, but, diffreent ears
> have different preferences, and, f
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: LUTELIST<mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
Jon Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> said:
> Bringing it
A dancer I was once acquainted with used to expound on what he called "the
myth of radial symmetry" in regard to the human body. The body *looks*
symmetrical, but inside, most of the vital organs are on one side or the
other. And if you take function into account, almost nothing is
symmetrica
-
From: "Carl Donsbach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "LUTELIST"
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> A dancer I was once acquainted with used to expound on what he called "the
> myth of radial symmetry" in rega
Arto Wikla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> What Jon wrote was "your ear is the best tuning device". I could not
> agree more!
well, I have been a performer in vocal groups, on the lute, and with
woodwinds; in all cases in ensemble. Vocal groups that perform with
instruments are always at odds wit
>> I beleive the average human has difficulty
distinguishing between tones 10-20 cents apart in the vicinity of middle-
c, it may be different in other ranges, I am not familiar with the
literature on this, just one of the odd factoids I recall from a life of
interest in technical trivia. I do
>Arto Wikla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
>> What Jon wrote was "your ear is the best tuning device". I could not
>> agree more!
>
>well, I have been a performer in vocal groups, on the lute, and with
>woodwinds; in all cases in ensemble. Vocal groups that perform with
>instruments are always at o
5 PM
Subject: RE: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> Ron Fletcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > Going back to your initial posting about lute symmetry. In the
> > Stradivari workshop on your recent trip to Italy, you saw a paper
> >
: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "guy_and_liz Smith"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LUTELIST" ; "Manolo Laguillo"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm
> I realize the argument can be made that the instruments have become warped
> and twisted over time but knowing wood as I do, if that were so, there would
> be evidence in a dramatic distortion of both the treble and base sides of
> the bowel.
That distortion could lead to perforation, especiall
> ++Psychoacoustics experiments on human subjects have demonstrated
> that pitch discrimination is most sensitive in the frequency band that
> occurs
> in the middle of the range of human hearing (including middle C).
> The resolution falls off considerably at both ends of the range. Humans
> find
> One of my music teachers once stated that women and children are unable
> to hear a note below bottom D (on a guitar). So, presumably, if a man
> sings bass, they wouldn't hear him!
One of my friends is a sound designer, and he said some low infrafrequencies
he used in a soundtrack sent women cr
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> After reading Mr. Lundbergs
Edwards respectively) when I
first decided to have a go at a theorbo.
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Vance
Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 6:44 PM
Subject:
is not uncommon even in places where you would
> consider symmetry to be important.
>
> Vance Wood.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "guy_and_liz Smith"
nd it
all.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Tony Chalkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list"
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> I haven't been taking in a lot of thi
" ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Vance
Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> >Vance said
> > The point here is that the
> >use of asymmetry was to create the illusion of symmetry.
>
>
peculation, and
more facts. I can then post my findings.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 20
with the caveat; this is the way a Lute is supposed to be
made.
Vance Wood.
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: sy
quot;lute list"
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> I look forward to that but let's make sure we are on the same page. I am
> looking at symmetricality in Lute making as two combined symmetrical
element
> joined together
Vance Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, lute list
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
Vance,
I know you want to debate this thing, but I know lutes bodies, with
their necks are asymmetrical.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Vance Wo
OTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Vance Wood"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> For a lute to be functional, it must be asymmetric with respect t
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