Re: Re: Re: Wire strings

>They tried to taxonomize us > all, and put us into little categories. Hey, I'm not a category, I'm what I > am. I've got my MTV and can relate! > > I rather hope that we both have a bit of humor in our "humor". yeah, absolutely, Jon:) humour would make us survive the invasion of the "machines"-

Re: Wire strings

>> If the Irish had wire technology they would have been supplying English >> textile industry, but Elisabethan customs authorities had massive >> problems >> with Continental wire contraband, so obviously there was no wire in >> Ireland. >> > I'm getting a little confused, Roman. First you say t

Re: Re: Wire strings

Hey man, you got it straight. Them old farts writing in those days really didn't have a clue. What is this crap about a "wine dark sea" that this guy Homer wrote (was his last name Simpson?). What color is wine dark? Yeah, they all got it wrong, the Norse and the Greeks. They tried to taxonomize us

Re: Wire strings

I believe I said that the provenance of the "Brian Boru" harp was suspect and probably apochryphal. Although perhaps not in those terms. > Pure "mythopoeia". > I'm afraid "Brian Boru" harp is now dated to 1400's, and has nothing to do > with Brian Boru. > RT I'm not sanguine on your sources for th

Re: Wire strings

> If the Irish had wire technology they would have been supplying English > textile industry, but Elisabethan customs authorities had massive > problems > with Continental wire contraband, so obviously there was no wire in > Ireland. > I'm getting a little confused, Roman. First you say the 14th

Re: Re: Wire strings

> (Scyld is translated into English as shield, and a varient is used in the > military descriptions of the Scot's tactics against the English, (can't > remember how to spell it, something like Skyldron meaning shield wall - a > rather less organized parallel to the ancient phalanx of the Greeks and

Re: Wire strings

> Someone has said that wire would have been a desired import if it existed in > Ireland in Elizabethan times, but that ignores the fact that in the times of > Good Queen Bess the old Ireland of the Celtic kinglets had disappeared. The > "Brian Boru" harp, that is sort of preserved, dates back almo

Re: Wire strings

this is getting good ... --- Jon Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm always happy to reply to snippy snippets, But > word for word isn't the > sense of a story. Reading is for meaning, > translation is for detail. > > "Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum, > Þeodcyninga, Þrym gefrunon, > hu ða æÞe

Re: Wire strings

I'm always happy to reply to snippy snippets, But word for word isn't the sense of a story. Reading is for meaning, translation is for detail. "Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum, Þeodcyninga, Þrym gefrunon, hu ða æÞelingas ellen fremedon. Oft Scyld Scefing sceaÞena Þreatum, Hear this, the (Danish war

Re: Wire strings

Doc, Someone has said that wire would have been a desired import if it existed in Ireland in Elizabethan times, but that ignores the fact that in the times of Good Queen Bess the old Ireland of the Celtic kinglets had disappeared. The "Brian Boru" harp, that is sort of preserved, dates back almost

Re: Wire strings

> > Concur, but like all languages of the time that which we call the German > language was in development. I can read Beowulf in the original That is a remarkable feat! Here is a snippet of the original: "Hwæt! We Gardena         in geardagum, Þeodcyninga,         Þrym gefrunon, hu ða æÞelingas

Re: Wire strings

> This may be true, but that doesn't say anything about Ireland, and even > if there is documentation about how and when it all happened in > England, that doesn't mean that it didn't happen somewhere else, Canuns/santurs didn't have wire strings until Ottoman times either. > possibly using di

Re: Wire strings

PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Wire strings >Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:39:55 +0100 > >>>>> The art >>>>> of wire-drawing does not appear to have been known until the >14th >>>>> century, >>>>> and it was no

Re: Wire strings

>>> The art >>> of wire-drawing does not appear to have been known until the 14th >>> century, >>> and it was not introduced into England before the second half of the >>> 17th This may be true, but that doesn't say anything about Ireland, and even if there is documentation about how and when i

Re: Wire strings

At 10:06 AM 11/28/2004, Roman Turovsky wrote: >All this DOES NOT PRECLUDE GUT-WIRE COMBINATION rather early, as weaving >textile grade wire into gut is absolutely conceivable, and this is probably >what Gerardus Cambrensis saw in Ireland in the 12th century. ..Or (and not really knowing much of ha

Re: Wire strings

> > What were the early clavichords (as in Zwolle) strung with? I would assume > keyboard makers have established the early history of their strings? Zwolle is 1440, so it could easily strung with anything you like. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.e

Re: Wire strings

Well said David, Leonard makes a point, and a good one. The consitancy of an unstopped string is less important than in a stopped string. But you are right, it is still important. A we all know the string vibrates in a complex pattern and the subdivisions of the vibration make the overtones that p

Re: Wire strings

> (Ps: The word Germany or Teutschland was used as a designation of the lands > inhabited by German speaking people long before Germany became a state) Concur, but like all languages of the time that which we call the German language was in development. I can read Beowulf in the original, as I ca

Re: Wire strings

f the lands inhabited by German speaking people long before Germany became a state) - Original Message - From: Jon Murphy To: LUTE-LIST ; Roman Turovsky Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Wire strings RT, your sources may be quite accurate as to the invention of drawing

re: Wire strings

Leonard Williams wrote: "...Since the harp strings are not stopped (except on rare occasions), would the string need to be perfectly true? ..." I haven't given the matter any rigorous thought, but I've assumed any string would have to be fairly uniform throughout its vibrating length to produce a

Re: Wire strings

> This thread started in reference to the possibility of medieval luthiers > making/using wire strings for _harps_. Since the harp strings are not stopped > (except on rare occasions), would the string need to be perfectly true? Also, > in a case like this, we're not talking about kms of uniform

re: Wire strings

This thread started in reference to the possibility of medieval luthiers making/using wire strings for _harps_. Since the harp strings are not stopped (except on rare occasions), would the string need to be perfectly true? Also, in a case like this, we're not talking about kms of uniform wi

Re: Wire strings

I meant to send this to the group: >To: Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Cameron) >Subject: Re: Wire strings > > >>In your estimate (permitting the possibility of quality sufficient for a >>musical string), what would it take

Re: Wire strings

__ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv > From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:05:36 -0500 > To: "Bonnie Shaljean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Roman > Turovsky" <[

Re: Wire strings

>> Drawing wire was invented in Germany in the mid 1300's, drawn steel 1632. >> Beaten wire technology of before the 14th century precludes the possibility >> of metal stings on celtic harps until Renaissance (counted from Dante, >> Giotto & Co). >> RT >> __ >> Roman M. Turovsky >> http

Re: Wire strings

> It doesn't matter whether wire strings could have been made a thousand years > ago, or two or three thousand. It doesn't matter whether the lute came from > the hunter's bowstring in his cave by stopping the string, or if that was > the harp by adding more strings to the bow and becoming a "pure

Re: Wire strings

>> According to Jon Murph the Celts also had jet propulsion and cold fusion > at >> least since Roman times. > > Mr. Turovsky, > > You are quite correct. The Celts were giants and a Celt's fart could propel > him to the moon. Must be acorn diet, fueled by pre-noon mead. > An early harpist is

Re: Wire strings

>Drawing wire was invented in Germany in the mid 1300's, drawn steel 1632. >Beaten wire technology of before the 14th century precludes the possibility >of metal stings on celtic harps until Renaissance (counted from Dante, >Giotto & Co). >RT >__ >Roman M. Turovsky >http://polyhymnion.o

Re: Wire strings

>> I do not feel like joining the legions of people who seem to fight with you. > > come on, please. > >> Wire harps WERE in existence in early Ireland and Scotland, whether you like >> it or not. > >> The 14th century does qualify was "early". > > > they had wires doesn't mean they had wired

Re: Wire strings

Roman, OK, I've had it. Your snippy replies to David Cameron did the trick. I've tried to be polite and maintain a conversation. It doesn't matter whether wire strings could have been made a thousand years ago, or two or three thousand. It doesn't matter whether the lute came from the hunter's bo

Re: Wire strings

> According to Jon Murph the Celts also had jet propulsion and cold fusion at > least since Roman times. Mr. Turovsky, You are quite correct. The Celts were giants and a Celt's fart could propel him to the moon. Perhaps that is why there are so many Celtic legends. As to cold fusion those warrio

Re: Wire strings

ked into it. I state the thesis that string making was an art, not a science. And that making wire strings might have been easier than gut. Best, Jon - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bonnie Shaljean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Wire strings

RT, your sources may be quite accurate as to the invention of drawing wire in Germany, but that doesn't say anything about other places. And why do you separate the drawing of "wire" from steel wire? Steel is a form of iron, but bronze and brass are not. Are you saying that the drawing of any metal

Re: Wire strings

does this date square with these > two instruments? > > VW > - Original Message - > From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: Wire strings > > >>>

Re: Wire strings

these two instruments? VW - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: Re: Wire strings > >> From an encyclopedia: > >> "History of wire production >

Re: Wire strings

>> From an encyclopedia: >> "History of wire production >> Wire was originally made by beating the metal out into plates, which were >> then cut into continuous strips, and afterwards rounded by beating. The art >> of wire-drawing does not appear to have been known until the 14th century, >> and it

Re: Wire strings

>> From an encyclopedia: >> "History of wire production >> Wire was originally made by beating the metal out into plates, which were >> then cut into continuous strips, and afterwards rounded by beating. The art >> of wire-drawing does not appear to have been known until the 14th century, >> and it

Re: Wire strings

>> From an encyclopedia: >> "History of wire production >> Wire was originally made by beating the metal out into plates, which were >> then cut into continuous strips, and afterwards rounded by beating. The art >> of wire-drawing does not appear to have been known until the 14th century, >> and it

Re: Wire strings

>From an encyclopedia: >"History of wire production >Wire was originally made by beating the metal out into plates, which were >then cut into continuous strips, and afterwards rounded by beating. The art >of wire-drawing does not appear to have been known until the 14th century, >and it was not int

Re: Wire strings

> From an encyclopedia: > "History of wire production > Wire was originally made by beating the metal out into plates, which were > then cut into continuous strips, and afterwards rounded by beating. To add: Drawing is essential to produce a wire that would be sufficiently uniform to be acoustical

Re: Wire strings

> I do not feel like joining the legions of people who seem to fight with > you. There are about 4 or 5. I wouldn't call them a legion. > Wire harps WERE in existence in early Ireland and Scotland, According to Jon Murph the Celts also had jet propulsion and cold fusion at least since Roman

Re: Wire strings

"Bonnie Shaljean" schrieb: > > I do not feel like joining the legions of people who seem to fight with you. come on, please. > Wire harps WERE in existence in early Ireland and Scotland, whether you like > it or not. > The 14th century does qualify was "early".

Re: Wire strings

I do not feel like joining the legions of people who seem to fight with you. Wire harps WERE in existence in early Ireland and Scotland, whether you like it or not. The 14th century does qualify was "early". Roman Turovsky wrote: >>From an encyclopedia: >"History of wire production >Wire wa

Re: Wire strings

>From an encyclopedia: "History of wire production Wire was originally made by beating the metal out into plates, which were then cut into continuous strips, and afterwards rounded by beating. The art of wire-drawing does not appear to have been known until the 14th century, and it was not introduc

Re: Wire strings

of one of the Belfast harpers) though he was dead by Joyce's time; but he would have been remembered by the local people, and is perhaps the model for the story. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >RE wire strings, which were somehow deemed an implausibility on early harps: > This is pure c

Re: Wire strings (was: thoughts on low tension on Baroque lutes)

I've seen a history of drawn wire somewhere on the web. Search rec.music.early on Google-groups. RT > RE wire strings, which were somehow deemed an implausibility on early harps: > This is pure conjecture, but I think that by the middle ages craftsmen had > been working with vario