Hi Chris
My apologies for the delayed response, we are miles behind on E-Mail. I take
your points regarding professional circumstances. You're correct, of course,
in your assertion that one has to use the most appropriate tool to get the job
done quickly and efficiently. I have to confess th
Hi Desi,
I'll answer for John by pointing you to his macfortheblind.com web site that is
listed in his signature. I know that we've picked up a lot of new members from
folks who have visited John's web site. Specifically, if you look on his
"Links" page of resources and mailing lists, the mac
John,
Could you tell us about the email address you run and how to get on it? I love
to tap multiple sources! If this information isn't appropriate for this list,
could you send it to me directly? Thanks so much!
Desi
mailto:desiandca...@q.com
On Jul 23, 2013, at 12:31 PM, John Panarese wr
Hopefully, this did not make the list the first time, as I might have sent
it has a draft this morning before it was complete.
Hi Chris,
Arrogance? Where do you get that from? Maybe, it came across that way in the
vehicle as text, but anyone who knows me knows I am the farthest thing from
t
>>>>>> on IOS, as done. They can walk into any courtroom and claim, with
>>>>>> justification, that they are in compliance with ADA, section 508, EU
>>>>>> disability legislation etc. Afraid in my view OSX accessibility is
>>>&g
Hi Mary,
Your use-cases are very interesting and mirror mine. The reality is that
sometimes having a PDF in continuous view mode and just letting voiceover read
it isn't what people need. I frequently need to have Preview set to single
page mode and VO, and this is not a gripe supposition or
t more in some regard. Also, well, show me
>>>>>>>>> an operating system the blind can use with perfection. We can go on
>>>>>>>>> and on about our accessibility gripes about every operating system,
>>>>>>>>> but in
Mary,
I totally agree with everything you have said.
John, it appears you think I am being harsh an expressing an unfounded sweeping
statement about Mac accessibility. My opinion is based on fact and experience.
You have also assumed that I have not looked for solution either via Google or
u
Hi Mary,
Here is the problem. Firstly, having been on email lists for years, these
types of discussions come up, people make suggestions and find solutions, and
the subject is lost. Being that I am on so many lists, I have no idea who said
what and where.
My point is, a lot of what people rep
You can save it as word, rtf and other formats and it works well. Iused it to
read articles sent to me by my prof. Passed the class to. and the service was
almost flawless. Listen to the video. I think I showed a pdf image thing on
there.
Tc all.
On Jul 22, 2013, at 5:38 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
Actually, you can also deal with an image only pdf with docuscan plus, which I
have. But there is no way to clean up errors, except laboriously by hand, which
is a time suck, and then when I'm done, I have an html document, which I guess
is ok unless I want to interact and copy bits and pieces,
Right, my community college where I attend college is using version nine
something.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 22, 2013, at 8:24 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> Actually for me black board is usable, unless you want to view an attachment
> sent by a professor. That might have changed, but my un
The way to deal with image only pdfs is to use a service I I found at
http://www.onlineocr.net
You can find my youtube video I did here. In fact the devs loved the thing so
much I got some free creds. lol! And normally my videos suck. lol!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgFyG6LciRs
Tc all.
Actually for me black board is usable, unless you want to view an attachment
sent by a professor. That might have changed, but my university I think is
still using black board from 2009. I can use it fine with firefox and another
OS and it is totally usable so there again is a difference of eq
To be completely honest Mary, I've never had to deal with any of those things
as of yet. This, if anything, is the reason why I'm looking to get a secondhand
computer with another operating system.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 22, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
> Josh,
> I'm sorry, but how
Josh,
I'm sorry, but how do you read tables in pdf documents and how do you deal with
those pdf documents you receive which are image onkly? The problem with
expecting pdf docs to be properly tagged is that the huge majority of them are
not, because people don't know anything about tagging pdf d
Alright, I, myself, am a political science major in college. I will admit that
the Mac may have some accessibility issues, but none that can't be fixed with a
bit of software updating and hole patching. I understand that some users have
more high-end demand, and that's fine, but what I use the M
John,
Seems to me you didn't really address some of Chris's specific issues with Mac
as compared to his use of Jaws or NVDA with Windows. pdf on the Mac is a joke
compared with Windows; sorry, but cutting and pasting in to text edit isn't my
idea of reasonable access. And the fact that I can't r
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>> Webs
2013, at 6:31 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just to be clear I think they've done a stellar job on IOS. Sure
>>>>&
ast issues that t we really
>>>>>>> shouldn't have to be working around. With every new update I hope that
>>>>>>> some new features will be introduced, but more importantly I want
>>>>>>> longstanding bugs to have gone away.
Gordon,
Thanks for your response, and I have no desire to completely jump ship to
Windows. I use Windows for work and Mac for pleasure (and some work). I am a
mac boy, and will just keep nagging them until they eventually listen.
Tables is ok for basic stuff, but try using JAWS with Excel, it
; And, though I cannot go into the specifics due to NDA, I'll say this, and
>>>>> under no circumstances anything more. I've reported through bug reporter
>>>>> many many bugs as I'm an Apple Dev both for IOS and for OSX. In both
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013, at 6:31 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just to be clear I think they've do
Chris
I agree with your comments regarding Office products and I did try to make that
clear in a previous post. There are issues with VoiceOver, Pages and possibly
OS X in general which I do find frustrating. Yes, I think it would be good if
Apple could do something about these issues. But a
(on this
>>>>>>> list) have come up with workarounds to get past issues that t we really
>>>>>>> shouldn't have to be working around. With every new update I hope that
>>>>>>> some new features will be introduced, but more important
gt;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013, at 6:31 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>
Gordon,
I rest my case. I have reported numerous bugs to Apple over the years, and
even beta tested previous OS builds. Very few of the bugs were addressed.
I suppose Apple could argue that not many blind users may require
administration services, probably a small audience (despite it opening
going to get.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dónal
>>>>> On 20 Jul 2013, at 06:31, "Chris Gilland"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And, though I cannot go into the specif
ve come up with workarounds to get past issues that t we really
>>>>>>> shouldn't have to be working around. With every new update I hope that
>>>>>>> some new features will be introduced, but more importantly I want
>>>>>>> long
08, EU
>>>>> disability legislation etc. Afraid in my view OSX accessibility is dying
>>>>> on the vine so we may as well accept that what we have now is as good as
>>>>> it's going to get.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
It is not a productivity machine at
>>>>>> this stage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dónal
>>>>>> On 20 Jul 2013, at 11:25, Chris Moore wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree, Mac OS X accessibility sucks.
g more. I've reported through bug reporter
>>>>> many many bugs as I'm an Apple Dev both for IOS and for OSX. In both
>>>>> cases a lot of the bugs had to do with things in IOS7 and in Mavericks
>>>>> both which are broken accessibility wi
>>>> cases a lot of the bugs had to do with things in IOS7 and in Mavericks
>>>>> both which are broken accessibility wise. Again, I can't legally reveal
>>>>> what these things are, but the response I finally got back directly from
>>>&g
I think it's just a matter of who you're fortunate enough to happen to deal
with in either case. But let me highlight another of these unfortunate issues
with Apple. About 3 years ago now, I highlighted an accessibility issue with
Apple's technical people regarding an issue in their Server OS.
ly reveal
>>>> what these things are, but the response I finally got back directly from
>>>> engineering, was something to the effect of we know about this bug,
>>>> however, what you are experiencing is exactly the way it's supposed to
>>>> behave, s
> We also need to shame Apple by bringing it to the attention of
>>>>>> mainstream press Let's try and convince someone to publish an article
>>>>>> on how crap Voiceover is on the Mac. We only ever seem to get a slight
>>>>>> update ea
gt;> Chris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dealing with both your mails in one here. I wholeheartedly agree. I've
>>>>>> been convinced for almost 2 years that Apple sees their job in terms of
>>>>>> accessibility for the blind, spec
27;s going to get.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dónal
>>>>> On 20 Jul 2013, at 06:31, "Chris Gilland"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And, though I cannot go into the
e Dev both for IOS and for OSX. In both
>>>>> cases a lot of the bugs had to do with things in IOS7 and in Mavericks
>>>>> both which are broken accessibility wise. Again, I can't legally reveal
>>>>> what these things are, but the response I
accessibility sucks. iOS is far superior and the Mac
>>>>>>> is half baked and very buggy. I could never recommend the Mac as a
>>>>>>> productive tool for the blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't th
7;s try and convince someone to publish an article
>>>>>> on how crap Voiceover is on the Mac. We only ever seem to get a slight
>>>>>> update each time a new OS comes out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to keep making a noise and more of it.
>>>
ugh bug reporter
>>>>> many many bugs as I'm an Apple Dev both for IOS and for OSX. In both
>>>>> cases a lot of the bugs had to do with things in IOS7 and in Mavericks
>>>>> both which are broken accessibility wise. Again, I can't legally rev
gt;> Dealing with both your mails in one here. I wholeheartedly agree. I've
>>>>>> been convinced for almost 2 years that Apple sees their job in terms of
>>>>>> accessibility for the blind, specifically on OSX but to a lesser extent
>>>>>> on IOS,
>>>>> on the vine so we may as well accept that what we have now is as good as
>>>>> it's going to get.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dónal
>>>>> On 20 Jul 2013, at 06:31, "Chris Gilland"
oth
>>>>> cases a lot of the bugs had to do with things in IOS7 and in Mavericks
>>>>> both which are broken accessibility wise. Again, I can't legally reveal
>>>>> what these things are, but the response I finally got back directly from
>>
do with things in IOS7 and in Mavericks
>>>>> both which are broken accessibility wise. Again, I can't legally reveal
>>>>> what these things are, but the response I finally got back directly from
>>>>> engineering, was something to the effect o
nd for OSX. In both
>>>>> cases a lot of the bugs had to do with things in IOS7 and in Mavericks
>>>>> both which are broken accessibility wise. Again, I can't legally reveal
>>>>> what these things are, but the response I finally got back dir
al
>>>> what these things are, but the response I finally got back directly from
>>>> engineering, was something to the effect of we know about this bug,
>>>> however, what you are experiencing is exactly the way it's supposed to
>>>> behave, s
is bug,
>>>> however, what you are experiencing is exactly the way it's supposed to
>>>> behave, so learn how to deal with it. Excuse me, but I paid 100 dollars
>>>> to become a dev, not a person whom won't be listen to! Frankly, I'm
>>>>
; was something to the effect of we know about this bug, however, what you
>>> are experiencing is exactly the way it's supposed to behave, so learn how
>>> to deal with it. Excuse me, but I paid 100 dollars to become a dev, not a
>>> person whom won't be li
t this bug, however, what you
>>> are experiencing is exactly the way it's supposed to behave, so learn how
>>> to deal with it. Excuse me, but I paid 100 dollars to become a dev, not a
>>> person whom won't be listen to! Frankly, I'm almost ready to gi
not a
>> person whom won't be listen to! Frankly, I'm almost ready to give
>> engineering a piece of my mind!
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Sarah k Alawami"
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
;
> Chris.
>
> - Original Message - From: "Sarah k Alawami"
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility"
> Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 1:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Logic Pro X accessibility: the view from Cupertino
>
>
> It's the same canned res
t;Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility"
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Logic Pro X accessibility: the view from Cupertino
It's the same canned response I received with GB as well. In fact I doubt
they will continue to improve accessibility in GB as I have not ten no more
I agree. I'm pretty much at the point where frankly, I've given up on ever
e-mailing Apple Accessibility. It just never seems to be any use.
chris.
- Original Message -
From: "Dónal Fitzpatrick"
To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility"
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Logic
It's the same canned response I received with GB as well. In fact I doubt they
will continue to improve accessibility in GB as I have not ten no more
responses even through the bug tracker I use.
On Jul 19, 2013, at 9:29 AM, Josh Gregory wrote:
> This reminds me of humanware, LOL.
>
> Sent f
This reminds me of humanware, LOL.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick
wrote:
> Well this is truly helpful! Really Apple accessibility customer care (or
> whatever the PR gurus call them these days) have excelled themselves. See
> the reply in its entirety b
We will report back shortly.
Kind regards
<--- Gordon Smith --->
Telephone:
United Kingdom: Free Phone:
0800 8620538
Mobile:
+44 7907 823971
Europe and other non-specified:
+44 1642 688095
United States Of America And Canada:
+1 646 9151493
Or:
+1 209 436 9443
Vic. Australia:
+61 38 820
Thank you Lynne. I've asked Apple Accessibility for information but I suspect
my mail, like most of the mails I send to apple Accessibility, will disappear
into the black hole of Cupertino!
Cheers,
Dónal
On 17 Jul 2013, at 16:50, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith"
wrote:
> Hello Donal
>
> My on
I'm referring to the brand new version just released.
Lynne
On 17 Jul 2013, at 16:45, "Isaac" wrote:
> What version of logic are you referring to?
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net
You can find an archiv
Hello Donal
My only excuse here is that we are just catching up on mail. If nobody else has
tested this, I will and let you know.
Lynne
On 17 Jul 2013, at 16:30, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Hi Lynne,
>
> *smile* I asked exactly the same question last night. thus far no
> responses. I'd bu
the new one that is just out.
On 17 Jul 2013, at 16:45, "Isaac" wrote:
> What version of logic are you referring to?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette
> Annabel Smith
> Sent: Wednesday,
What version of logic are you referring to?
-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette
Annabel Smith
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:27 AM
To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Logic Pro X Accessibil
Hi Lynne,
*smile* I asked exactly the same question last night. thus far no responses.
I'd buy it for testing purposes, but at €179 it could prove an expensive
mistake.
Dónal
On 17 Jul 2013, at 16:27, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith"
wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> Does anybody know whether th
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