Fair enough, so far their attempts at security could be called amateur at best,
childlike at worst...
-Curt
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:59:53 -0600
From: Craig
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] : The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy
VOLT"
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
wrote:
> The other thing to go right with this is smart meters which charge you
> more during high demand periods.
IF they do an adequate job with (computer/digital) security in the smart
meters, else you'll have someone hacking into your pow
roger...@comcast.net writes:
> Allan,
> Hey, I didn't write that about the electrical distribution system.
Sorry... must have been some funny quoting in someone else's message,
then. A lot of email software doesn't handle quoting properly.
Allan
--
1983 300D
_
Actually, the guys design is pretty ingenious. It's a compound engine that
uses several tricks that are pretty neat to maximize the stored energy of
the compressed air.
The compressed air tanks are recharged either externally, or through a
rather ingenious system that uses fuel [this thing will u
> Curt Raymond wrote:
> As the grid is stressed the
> utilities can do what they should have been doing all along
> and add additional capacity...
The grid is already stressed.
And the environmental laws have made it _tough_ to add
capacity. As I understand, the growth in the last dozen years
o
G Mann wrote:
On the subject of saving the environment, some of you may have seen this
little car/concept. It is now being produced and is scheduled for import, I
think.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/preview-concept/4251491
I've got to assume that compressed air is just another se
On the subject of saving the environment, some of you may have seen this
little car/concept. It is now being produced and is scheduled for import, I
think.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/preview-concept/4251491
No plug in, no long down time while batteries recharge [with the proper
su
etter recycle time.
-Curt
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:02:01 -0700
From: Rory
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] : The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy
VOLT"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
So maybe we need to convert to the metric system a
remembering is that these cars won't just appear overnight. As the grid is
stressed the utilities can do what they should have been doing all along and
add additional capacity...
-Curt
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:54:39 -0500
From: OK Don
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] : The
So maybe we need to convert to the metric system and the standard outlet is
now 220v. I know I did this for my server farm here at work, all servers are
on 220v.
I really don't think we sill see a solution in this current decade.
Here you can see what Calif is demanding for electricity
http://www.
OK Don wrote:
Actually, I read somewhere that the electrical utilities are encouraging EVs
because they build the capacity for the peaks - and have difficulty dealing
with the valleys. The EVs are expected to be charging after the peak use
times -the middle of the day afternoon.
And there's tal
Actually, I read somewhere that the electrical utilities are encouraging EVs
because they build the capacity for the peaks - and have difficulty dealing
with the valleys. The EVs are expected to be charging after the peak use
times -the middle of the day afternoon.
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:47 PM
I speak Suthrun and learning Gullah, I think we should build them South
of the Border in SC, we have Savannah River, all them squids up there in
the Navy who know that nukular stuff, and already produce about 2/3 of
our power here from nukes. Let's get Nikki to build a bunch more and
sell powe
Max Dillon wrote:
Problem with solar is the energy density of sunlight is simply too low. I think
you only get about 3 or 4 watts per square meter, when the sun is shining, and
that amount of power is not sufficient to do very much given our current energy
requirements. We're back to nuclear
)
'73 Balboa 20 (High & dry until the head is back on)
Charleston SC
From: Curt Raymond
To: Diesel List
Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 10:14:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
I'd heard that for horizont
es Discussion List
Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 10:13:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
That's a new one on me. I was out in Medicine Bow, Wyoming some years ago
getting up close and personal with one of the largest wind turbines ever bui
)
'95 E300 283k miles (daily driving duties)
'73 Balboa 20 (High & dry until the head is back on)
Charleston SC
From: Mountain Man
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 9:31:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secre
Allan,
Hey, I didn't write that about the electrical distribution system. I agree with
you that in most big city areas hooking up a few hundred or thousand 220v
electric cars would bring about brown outs or the need for rolling blackouts.
Best Wishes,
Roger Hale
Monroe, Ga.
20 (High & dry until the head is back on)
Charleston SC
From: Mountain Man
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 9:14:08 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
Max wrote:
> Not me that wor
On Jun 20, 2011 10:18 PM, "Curt Raymond" wrote:
>
> Agreed. I think its air conditioning that makes people weak.
Spoken like a true Northerner. :)
> I can't imagine what it was like without AC.
Porches, siestas, fans, and sweet iced tea. Long lunch breaks. And airy
hats of course.
If you vi
t.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:50:59 -0700
> From: G Mann
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hydrogen
On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 18:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
wrote:
> Sorry, no. "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only its form
> changed", thats your first law of thermodynamics that is.
1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't quit.
Craig
___
Would that wet exhaust have promoted rust inside the engine, or would
it have been no worse than the H2O + CO2 from hydrocarbon fuels?
All exhaust is wet. For every gallon of fuel you pour
in your existing vehicle about a gallon of water (vapor)
comes out.
-- Jim
___
roger...@comcast.net writes:
> As for "no distribution system" you got no outlets at your place?
> We've got a HUGE distribution system. What we'll need is more 220v
> outlets to get better charge times.
I have my doubts whether the current electical infrastructure in many
areas would be up to ha
Curt,
This is my point about no distribution system. As you said, we need 220v
outlets (you can't always be home for a charge on 110v) and someone needs to
develop and implement a metering system, etc. etc. I don't know about you, but
I don't want to be plugging a car into a 220v outlet when it
argument usually made against biodiesel but it seems (to me anyway)
the anti-oilsands crowd is pretty quiet...
-Curt
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 07:19:09 -0400
From: "Larry"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the C
off before bed.
-Curt
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 20:33:41 -0500
From: Mountain Man
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Curt wrote:
> Back when I was a wee tiny bair
t
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:23:23 -0400
From: Max Dillon
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
Message-ID: <4bb626be-14ff-445a-b08b-53c8bd82b...@email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
All the big win
That's a new one on me. I was out in Medicine Bow, Wyoming some years
ago getting up close and personal with one of the largest wind turbines
ever built, at a test site there. It was a 5MW Hamilton Standard
machine, 250ft rotor diameter with the hub sitting 250ft up. They told
the story that
Hi Roger,
Its awful hard to see the next big thing and so many people get it wrong its
easy to get gunshy. I too remember the Segway, in fact I remember it when it
was called "Ginger". I've even met Dean Kayman (I think I spelled that wrong
but I'm too tired to check) once, he used to live in M
I've seen the ones in Oklahoma sitting dead still on the few days we don't
have wind sweeping down the plains. Most times they are spinning at a fair
rate.
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Max Dillon wrote:
> All the big wind generators have a motor feature to keep the blades turning
> when the w
n, 20 Jun 2011 11:50:59 -0700
From: G Mann
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hydrogen for this test program was supplied from large tanks from Air-liquid
who is/was
Curt Raymond wrote:
UGH! The "Hydrogen economy" is a total fallacy, answer 1 question, "Where does the
hydrogen come from?"
Just think of it as a cheap battery without toxic waste.
Mitch
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz
UGH! The "Hydrogen economy" is a total fallacy, answer 1 question, "Where does
the hydrogen come from?"
-Curt
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:10:56 -0700
From: G Mann
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
M
-Curt
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:27:16 -0400
From: Mitch Haley
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
Message-ID: <4dfe93e4.70...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Tim C wro
From: "Larry"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
Message-ID: <4103E3C06EAF4181AD0B489455D92F30@Acer>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Curt wrote:
> Back when I was a wee tiny bairn my mother drove a Type III VW that had a
> propane heater on the floor so we didn't freeze in northern Maine winters.
>
That is not the american way.
But, I think it serves much better than our traditional limp wristed
needs of today.
We can even lea
Curt wrote:
> On the news this morning they touted some solar panel company thats come up
> with some new manufacturing tech that is supposed to drive the cost way down
> which is apparently a "game changer".
>
I remember a 1978 Newsweek article about a guy named Ovshinsky that
spoke about amorp
All the big wind generators have a motor feature to keep the blades turning
when the wind isn't strong enough to do the job, because the high wind speed
required to get them spinning doesn't happen often enough. Basically you have
to spend some electricity to make some. Long calm spell? Wind
Max wrote:
> Not me that works in a nuke plant, but nuke is the only way to go, in my
> opinion.
Eh... I was convinced to that point-of-view 38 years ago.
mao
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives htt
Walt wrote:
> I'd put it in the charging station, and have the stations just report "car X
> charged for Y hourss using X KW".
I'd do it like Tesla - no ability to meter it. But then JPMorgan cut
funding as he wanted to meter and bill users.
Oh, well - death of a good idea, killed and destroyed.
> G Mann wrote:
> H2O covers 70% of the planet, when H2 is
> split and burned the result is .. .. H2O... water... steam
> comes out the exhaust pipe. NO pollution. No rich Arabs
> wanting to kill us selling us oil... hmmm novel thought there.
But there is no such thing as a free lunch. Or perpet
the ticket there...
Back when I was a wee tiny bairn my mother drove a Type III VW that had a
propane heater on the floor so we didn't freeze in northern Maine winters.
-Curt
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:27:16 -0400
From: Mitch Haley
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "
with everything its a mix
of technologies that are going to carry us into the future, not any one of them.
-Curt
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 14:10:22 -0500
From: Fmiser
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
Message-ID: <20110
The other factor that's usually ignored in hydrogen discussions is that
you're not combining it with pure oxygen - air contains many other gasses
that do various things at different temperatures
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Allan Streib wrote:
> G Mann writes:
>
> > The argument can be
G Mann writes:
> The argument can be raised that it takes more energy to crack water than the
> hydrogen returns, however argument can also be raised that if research was
> devoted to the process a better system could/would be found to produce
> hydrogen.
Hydrogen is the most abundant element bu
Hydrogen for this test program was supplied from large tanks from Air-liquid
who is/was a major hydrogen supplier for the space program [rockets use
hydrogen fuel... lots of it].
The hydrogen was extracted either from water process using electric current
or extracted from free air I believe.
The
ent: Mon, June 20, 2011 11:10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
What is the projected service life for a set of batteries on the chevy volt?
{How many charge /discharge cycles will they take before degradation or
failure}
What is the cost o
How was the hydrogen produced?
--R
On 6/20/11 11:10 AM, G Mann wrote:
NO carbon anywhere.
Measured pollution for the run... zero.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archi
Good question. Thanks... there were start / stop cycles in the test program.
The combustion process produced plenty of heat to prevent damage from water
droplet corrosion or formation. There was no liquid water inside the engine
or the exhaust system. What came out the pipe was high temp steam. R
G Mann wrote:
About 30 years ago I was an engineering assistant on a hydrogen fuel test
program that ran a V8 350 Chevy engine in a dyno test cell at 80% power for
100,000 mile [equiv ] with tear down at end of run. Zero wear, and we wiped
the combustion chambers clean with a facial tissue. NO
What is the projected service life for a set of batteries on the chevy volt?
{How many charge /discharge cycles will they take before degradation or
failure}
What is the cost of a replacement set of batteries? [I'm betting it's a new
form of "sticker shock"]
When you factor the car chassis life
Larry wrote:
Mr. Mann I salute you. A voice of reason in a forest of misinformation.
Bravo!
I still contend that drilling and converting oil shale to oil would tap
America's oil reserves. Some estimates show US has more oil reserves
(when oil shale is included) than the rest of the world co
Peter - What SIU are you talking about?
Peter
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
> A Guide Dog will help, certainly, but if you are trying to get around
> without one, hybrids and electrics can be very scary.
>
> They get "lost" in the surrounding noise in urban settings.
>
Excellent points Rich! now, don't you feel better ? ;-)
LarryT
-Original Message-
From: Rich Thomas
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:35 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
You miss the whole point o
s very advanced, the
infrastructure is in place *today* and there's a 20-30% improvement in mpg's
when compared to similar gas vehicles.
LarryT
91 300D
-Original Message-
From: G Mann
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:12 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "
electric cars use less energy than people who use gas cars of
comparable size and weight.
Charging efficiency is rarely talked about.
A diesel-electric micro-hybrid, where the diesel
was underpowered except for the average fwy requirement,
and only enough battery to get you up to speed a
time or
Etre d'accord!
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred
On 6/19/2011 6:56 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
Heck with hybrids, they need to come out with more small 4 cylinder
diesel powered cars.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.
Not me that works in a nuke plant, but nuke is the only way to go, in my
opinion.
Tim C wrote:
>
>
>
>.092 last month. Nuclear country, thanks Max!
>
>
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For
They gotta make up the gas tax somehow. So you pay a premium to fel
good then another tax to make up for the gas you aren't burning and the
pollution you are spewing (from the tailpipe anyway) and pretty soon
your smugness might be a bit less forthright. At least until the rest
of the tax
Allan Streib wrote:
It won't be long if EVs catch on in any significant number. You'll be
required to have a special metered outlet installed in the garage (at
your expense, probably several thousand dollars as the electricians will
know a good thing when they see it) and you'll pay road tax on
I'd put it in the charging station, and have the stations just report "car X
charged for Y hourss using X KW".
That way it wouldn't matter who's charger you used, it'd always bill you the
tax. It would be up to the charge station operator to bill for usage (in the
event that parking garages start
While we can talk about the rational and economic factors of electric vs
dino juice vs hybrid all day long, most car choices and purchases are
emotional, not rational. It doesn' treally matter whether you think your
saving money or the environment - you're going to buy the latest technology,
or old
Mitch Haley writes:
> It'd still take longer than the batteries will live to pay back the
> cost of trading in an SDL on a Dolt with fuel savings. And some of
> those fuel savings will go away when they figure out a way to make
> electric drivers pay road tax.
It won't be long if EVs catch on in
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:
> It looks like a Chevy Dolt can, without using climate control, do about 35
> miles on 13kWh, so your .5kWh per mile was actually conservative.
Hobbyist numbers, converting by removing gas engines and adding
batteries does not yield the ideal c
I wonder if they'll start factoring projected road tax into the purchase
price...
Walt
On Jun 19, 2011 9:26 PM, "Mitch Haley" wrote:
> It looks like a Chevy Dolt can, without using climate control, do about 35
miles
> on 13kWh, so your .5kWh per mile was actually conservative.
>
> You mentioned n
It looks like a Chevy Dolt can, without using climate control, do about 35 miles
on 13kWh, so your .5kWh per mile was actually conservative.
You mentioned not paying 10 cents, what do you pay?
My marginal cost of electricity is about 22 cents in the summer and 14 cents in
the winter.
It'd sti
Remember the all-electric RAV-4? Leases terminated and vehicles crushed. And
people who were lucky to get them LOVED them. A few even fought and got to
keep them, albeit without ANY dealer parts backup.
Now we have a gas engine tacked on, and it's called a Prius. I've also heard
it's damn impossib
Walt Zarnoch wrote:
Wonder what the mileage on one of those little single-cyl gas deathtrap cars
was...
A Messerschmitt KR200 (two stroke) was said to get 87 imperial mpg, or 70 US
mpg, probably about what you would get with a 1970's subcompact and a diesel
lawn mower engine, or a 200cc motor
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:
> Tim C wrote:
>
>> Why do I want an electric car? Because:
>>
>> - I drive a very predictable 20 miles round-trip in a day. That's 1
>> gallon of diesel, give or take, so call it $3.75 +/- $0.75. Using a
>> relatively-conservative hobbyist c
Wonder what the mileage on one of those little single-cyl gas deathtrap cars
was...
On Jun 19, 2011 8:27 PM, "Mitch Haley" wrote:
> Tim C wrote:
>
>> Why do I want an electric car? Because:
>>
>> - I drive a very predictable 20 miles round-trip in a day. That's 1
>> gallon of diesel, give or take,
Tim C wrote:
Why do I want an electric car? Because:
- I drive a very predictable 20 miles round-trip in a day. That's 1
gallon of diesel, give or take, so call it $3.75 +/- $0.75. Using a
relatively-conservative hobbyist conversion 0.5 KWh/mile, I would
spend $1.00 (I pay $0.10/KWh) for my
Geez, I go outside for a few hours and you guys go crazy! :)
Electric motors put power to the wheels more efficiently. People who
have electric cars use less energy than people who use gas cars of
comparable size and weight. (Electric cars are also dragging around a
literal ton of extra weight p
Brian wrote:
> I can tell you that I really like being passed by a hybrid - or especially
> an all electric - when I am riding my bicycle.
Trouble maker.
I would love to ride my 1938 Schwinn more, but I live on the outskirts.
mao
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For
Heck with hybrids, they need to come out with more small 4
cylinder diesel powered cars.
On 6/19/2011 12:27 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
When you see the articles written about comparing hybrids to straight gas
burners, they almost always come out in favor of the non-hybrid car.
There are so many ef
A Guide Dog will help, certainly, but if you are trying to get around
without one, hybrids and electrics can be very scary.
They get "lost" in the surrounding noise in urban settings.
Sorta like the hallway in the Student Center at SIU -- had perforated
ceiling tile ventilation and was acous
Since hearing is all I've got, electrics and hybrids are a problem. The
guide dogs did well with the Prius used in training. It was sure quiet, and
even when I didn't hear it, the dog provided plenty of buffer zone for our
safety.
Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon
__
Or a playing card affixed so it rubs against wheel spokes, etc. ;<)))
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Rich Thomas"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT&qu
The associations of blind people have been demanding this for as long
as there have been hybrids. They are so quiet that blind people
often step off curbs in front of them, not being able to SEE the car
coming because it makes no noise.
Peter
___
http:/
True. I can actually recognize the Toyota hybrid sound. Seems the same in
all their hybrid models. Kinda space age-ish.
But yeah. They really do need to have some warning. Reminds me of a
harrowing experience one day when I was passed by an RV on a road with no
shoulder. Was the kind of RV that is
They scare the shit out of me because I can't hear them coming and BANG!
there they are (and one hopes there is no bang). Goes also for walking
in parking lots. One came up me last week somewhere, it got me thinking
that for low-speed tooling around they need a speaker on the front with
some
> Allan Streib wrote:
> Pretty much the greenest thing you can do is buy a non-hybrid
> used car and keep it in good running order. Anything made in
> the past couple of decades is pretty clean-running, and by
> buying used you are not creating demand for more raw materials
> for manufacturing.
> LWB250 wrote:
> Points well taken, Tim.
>
> The one thing that nags at me regarding the electric vehicles
> is how much gas/coal/oil has to be burned to produce the
> electricity to charge or run them?
>
> I never see this in the information, and I think it's a very
> relevant aspect of the wh
Actually I caught my own flub here: Going up hills, hybrids are running on
their good old gas engines.
The mpg gauge in our Prius dives down into what appears to be the teens as
we climb the hills.
Brian
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
I don't dispute all the evidence that electric cars aren't as "green" as
they say they are but one nice thing about them is they produce at least
somewhat less in the way of emissions. Yes, this is offset by the
manufacturing drawbacks, etc. But I am talking about the air that I actually
breathe on
You miss the whole point of this exercise. It's not about what is
rational, it's about what feeels good! And electric cars feeel
good! And if you have one you can drive around feeling smug that you
are clearly smarter and better than that other guy who does not have
one, and that you
When you see the articles written about comparing hybrids to straight gas
burners, they almost always come out in favor of the non-hybrid car.
There are so many efficient gas burners out there, that if you use good driving
habits and keep them in good order, they will be less expensive in the lo
nnected to batteries.
> >>
> >> Lee
> >>
> >> LWB250 wrote:
> >>
> >>> Points well taken, Tim.
> >>>
> >>> The one thing that nags at me regarding the electric vehicles is how
> much
> >>>
> >> g
>>> The one thing that nags at me regarding the electric vehicles is how much
>>>
>> gas/coal/oil has to be burned to produce the electricity to charge or run
>> them?
>>
>>> I never see this in the information, and I think it's a very rel
Is this going to end up like GM's EV1 electric cars?
Rory
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Allan Streib wrote:
> Pretty much the greenest thing you can do is buy a non-hybrid used car and
> keep it in good running order. Anything made in the past couple of decades
> is pretty clean-running, an
Pretty much the greenest thing you can do is buy a non-hybrid used car and keep
it in good running order. Anything made in the past couple of decades is
pretty clean-running, and by buying used you are not creating demand for more
raw materials for manufacturing. Of course that doesn't help GM
e electric vehicle thing.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Tim C
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List
> > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret B
7;s a very relevant aspect
> of the whole electric vehicle thing.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Tim C
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Che
thing.
Dan
From: Tim C
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The "Dirty Little Secret Behind the Chevy VOLT"
More than that, the "anemic" sales of the Volt are clearly due to supply
issues,
More than that, the "anemic" sales of the Volt are clearly due to supply
issues, since dealers don't have them in stock and can't get them. The Leaf
is having similar issues. I suspect part of it, like was done with the
early hybrids, is limiting supply so as to work bugs out with committed
early
Let us know your results.Most of it has been widely reported already.
Very interesting, but I'd like to see a fact check to get a
more unbiased version of the story.
Jaime
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 8:36 PM, wrote:
The Rest of the Story
Patrick Michaels is a senior fellow in Envi
Very interesting, but I'd like to see a fact check to get a
more unbiased version of the story.
Jaime
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 8:36 PM, wrote:
> The Rest of the Story
>
> Patrick Michaels is a senior fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato
> Institute and the editor of the forthcoming
The Rest of the Story
Patrick Michaels is a senior fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato
Institute and the editor of the forthcoming Climate Coup: Global Warming's
Invasion of our Government and our Lives, as well as the author of several
other books on global warming.
His Forbes c
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